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How are the tooling upfront costs met for those starting out in gunsmithing?

Trboatworks

Diamond
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Location
Maryland- USA
I am looking through the Mason catalog and bewildered by the number of tooling items needed to get setup for smith work.
How did you all start- just purchase as you go as projects come in the door?
Get a basic kit and expand?

I am just curious as the upfront costs seem like a barrier for the casual worker to do credible work.
 
I am looking through the Mason catalog and bewildered by the number of tooling items needed to get setup for smith work.
How did you all start- just purchase as you go as projects come in the door?
Get a basic kit and expand?

I am just curious as the upfront costs seem like a barrier for the casual worker to do credible work.

No different from most any other repair/service type business.

"upfront costs seem like a barrier for the casual worker to do credible work"

Yes, and there lies the main point "casual worker" and "credible work".

If your assembling the AR15 type platform the investment is virtually zip-zero. If your doing custom handgun and rifle work then one should expect to have basic machine tools such as a mill and lathe as well as specialized gages and tooling.

So, upfront costs? Depends on what type of work you intend to do and investment would vary wildly.
BTW---Many never consider the cost of liability insurance, ATF/ITAR fees if applicable, along with possible zoning restrictions.

EDIT to add: https://sftp.montgomery.edu/pdf/programs/gunsmithing/gsm-tool-list.pdf
 
Regardless of how you see your market for gun work, your customers will determine what you work on. Of course, you need good quality basic tools. Each job you take on will need another tool. Of more importance is where and when you do gun work. If you work at home, be prepared for visitors and customers whenever you are there. If you set up a shop, keep the number of stools and seats to one. Otherwise, you will have a daily peanut gallery. If your shop is at home, your license opens your house to warrantless searches. When a customer leaves a gun for repair, log the gun in as soon as the customer walks out the door. If the authorities visit you, they are there to find a violation that will put you in the grease. The smith says,"I will have your gun ready tomorrow." The customer says,"If I wanted it tomorrow, I would have brought it in tomorrow."
 
Regardless of how you see your market for gun work, your customers will determine what you work on. Of course, you need good quality basic tools. Each job you take on will need another tool. Of more importance is where and when you do gun work. If you work at home, be prepared for visitors and customers whenever you are there. If you set up a shop, keep the number of stools and seats to one. Otherwise, you will have a daily peanut gallery. If your shop is at home, your license opens your house to warrantless searches. When a customer leaves a gun for repair, log the gun in as soon as the customer walks out the door. If the authorities visit you, they are there to find a violation that will put you in the grease. The smith says,"I will have your gun ready tomorrow." The customer says,"If I wanted it tomorrow, I would have brought it in tomorrow."

"keep the number of stools and seats to one." Oh shit...so true!

Recently had a race shop do an engine and mentioned to the owner (the place had all those Dorman parts drawers as a base for the front counter) that he obviously valued his time--there were no stools in front of the counter. He laughed and said they tossed the stools along with the tire kickers out years ago.

Gun shops are the same way...which is why most of the really profitable gun mechanics have a very limited walk in trade, if any at all.
 
I am looking through the Mason catalog and bewildered by the number of tooling items needed to get setup for smith work.
How did you all start- just purchase as you go as projects come in the door?
Get a basic kit and expand?

I am just curious as the upfront costs seem like a barrier for the casual worker to do credible work.

Jesus, that's really asking "How long is string?"

The fella that replied "All of it!" is not far off, as is the guy that said "Zero."

It depends entirely what you actually expect and want to be able to do.

If you want a decent look at the skills expected of an old time 'wood and blued steel' gunsmith, you could do worse than to read Howe's Modern Gunsmithing (which is even older than most of the 1950's books out there that espouse the virtues of hacking up MilSurp relics).

If you want to work on Glocks and AR's, you need a very few special tools for the AR's. About half or more of which are usually combined in to just one wonder wrench.

If you want to make from scratch, you are going to need a pretty solid selection of machine tools, and the smalls that go with those...
 
If you learn from formal training, most of your initial machine tool projects will be tools for later use. Even as you progress, you will make most of your tools unless you have so much business that your time is more valuable than your money.
 
Easiest way to make a small fortune in the business is to start with a large one. Don't do this for the money, only do it if you have a passion for it and can afford not to make any money for a while.
 
With what I have tied up in machines and tooling over the last 40 plus years that are hardly ever used for actual gunsmithing and never on any gun I don't already own. You'd have to have a hell of a lot of almost full time hourly paid work and maybe 10 + years to finally or maybe break even if your real lucky. At the casual level and anything above simple parts replacement? It's for sure you won't live long enough and it's not ever going to be cost effective. Then how much additional work are you going to need to do just to pay for the FFL and insurance every year?
 
Good morning Bill- good post.

You have seen my shop and know me.


I met an old time gunsmith years ago who put me fully off any thought of approaching the trade.
As he put it he loved the work but couldn't stand the gun owners "these days"..

In any case though I did say work which "comes in the door" is more a question of increasing the tooling in my shop to approach some smith work in a credible fashion on my own gear.
While I have the lathe and mill and shop space and insurance I don't know I would take on client work but might.
There are a couple of local guys I know setting up a gun shop and I could easily reach out and draw in work if I cared to but...

My question is the really a simple one of cost of entry into the trade- it seems given the array of caliber and tasks that it might be an expensive proposition to buy tooling for a low volume shop and expect to write down the cost in any reasonable time frame.
Even for dabbling on my own gear- just a glance at the nice products in the catalog seems it is a quick way to make an expensive firearms hobby even more so.
Cost of admission- seems daunting to be a casual gun smith.
 
Last edited:
Good morning Bill- good post.

You have seen my shop and know me.


I met an old time gunsmith years ago who put me fully off any thought of approaching the trade.
As he put it he loved the work but couldn't stand the gun owners "these days"..

In any case though I did say work which "comes in the door" is more a question of increasing the tooling in my shop to approach some smith work in a credible fashion on my own gear.
While I have the lathe and mill and shop space and insurance I don't know I would take on client work but might.
There are a couple of local guys I know setting up a gun shop and I could easily reach out and draw in work if I cared to but...

My question is the really a simple one of cost of entry into the trade- it seems given the array of caliber and tasks that it might be an expensive proposition to buy tooling for a low volume shop and expect to write down the cost in any reasonable time frame.
Even for dabbling on my own gear- just a glance at the nice products in the catalog seems it is a quick way to make an expensive firearms hobby even more so.
Cost of admission- seems daunting to be a casual gun smith.


You might want to start off by contacting the ATF in regards to licensing. After that, talk to your insurance agent and see if your current insurance covers servicing/gunsmithing, and what exclusions they may apply for the actual manufacturing of parts.

Since you have machines and a location the next step would be proper licencing and insurance coverage.
 
You might want to start off by contacting the ATF in regards to licensing. After that, talk to your insurance agent and see if your current insurance covers servicing/gunsmithing, and what exclusions they may apply for the actual manufacturing of parts.

Since you have machines and a location the next step would be proper licencing and insurance coverage.

I will do.

I have for years turned down all requests to do firearms work or even to make simple parts due to the unknowns of that legal and liability exposure.
 
Good morning Bill- good post.

You have seen my shop and know me.


I met an old time gunsmith years ago who put me fully off any thought of approaching the trade.

As he put it he loved the work but couldn't stand the gun owners "these days"..

In any case though I did say work which "comes in the door" is more a question of increasing the tooling in my shop to approach some smith work in a credible fashion on my own gear.
While I have the lathe and mill and shop space and insurance I don't know I would take on client work but might.
There are a couple of local guys I know setting up a gun shop and I could easily reach out and draw in work if I cared to but...

My question is the really a simple one of cost of entry into the trade- it seems given the array of caliber and tasks that it might be an expensive proposition to buy tooling for a low volume shop and expect to write down the cost in any reasonable time frame.
Even for dabbling on my own gear- just a glance at the nice products in the catalog seems it is a quick way to make an expensive firearms hobby even more so.
Cost of admission- seems daunting to be a casual gun smith.

I know at least 2 gunsmiths who don't do any gunsmithing anymore. Both cited the new breed of gun owners, especially the AR owners, they lost count of the times they were asked to do illegal work, make silencers, (in California) large magazines,full auto etc etc.

Both grew up from a young age steeped in gun culture, with safety being paramount (don't point the gun at your annoying sister etc etc) The new breed of owners don't have this grounding in safety and use of firearms.

The other issue was the ATF, one was convinced that some of the requests for illegal AR mods were ATF sting operations.
 
"Oh, you're a machinist? Can you make this little 'L' shaped thing for me?"

Usually, in my experience, it starts out "You have a metal lathe...", but yeah... I'd have a much nicer shop, if I was able to wring a fiver out of every git that wanted a silencer made.

IMO, the Smiths I figure were the success stories, either tied it in with a retail store front, and spent far too much time mounting scopes, or they had a hole in the wall shop somewhere without a sign or front counter, and work was delivered to them from any number of 'feeder' locations, usually retail spaces that were asked if they could fix something that was beyond the skills of their scope mount kid.

It does pay to familiarize oneself with the various 'fun switch' parts out there. I figure these days there are like to be a fair few guys trying to farm out Glock conversion rear slide caps (only three pieces, and install is about two minutes, less if you have any coordination), in addition to the usual auto sear parts, in their various iterations. Knowledge isn't illegal, yet, and knowing what you are looking at could be what it takes to save yer arse from being in a sling courtesy of said ATF stings. Same with understanding the various forms of silencers, as they have recently changed the rules on simple possession of parts from what I have read.
 
I have friends that had jobs that did not pay much despite hard work:
1) Gunsmiths
2) Rock musicians
3) Photographers
4) Attorneys that went to backwater law schools

I know people who make good money:
1) Engineers
2) Hedge fund manager
3) Attorneys that went to ivy league schools
 
I have a part time gun shop. For me, other than licensing and insurance, I had most stuff I needed to go good rifle work which I have built over several years before opening up shop. Couldn't tell you how much it all costs. Most of my machines are very nice or rebuilt used machines that I spent a lot of time and money finding or making what I want. Things like reamers your best off buying new which can run from $160-$260+ for one reamer. Even now I'm still buying a new tool here and there or upgrading random things. I would guess If I were to go buy it all new, it would be well over $20-30K. I probably have at least half that into my stuff. As for the licensure, ATF, Business registration, I think cost me around $1k to get it all going, another $500 if you want SOT yearly, and Insurance I think costs me around $200/month for liability and building coverage. That's not including if you "rent" a space from yourself, utilities, consumables, random specialty tools for different jobs, computer, printers, copiers, paper, pens, the list goes on. All the before I pay myself. Not really a money making endeavor, but I enjoy it and I have a "real" job that pays the bills. Not sure I'll ever be full time at this, but I'm currently the only guy within 100 miles that can build a nice quality accurate rifle in my area.
 
A lot of the old school gunsmith training had you make most of the tooling and fixtures needed. This was the same method as Tool maker training where almost all your toolbox items are made during apprenticeship. This was also a learning exercise used to teach hand work skills and weed out the non trainable. The USMC 2112 school at Quantico started the gunsmith students out in the machine shop with a pile of tool drawings. Most were finished by hand. They taught the skills to be able to work out of a tool box on the back of a truck without machinery. I still use my tools from apprenticeship. Now everyone opens up a catalog and just buys tools. Lost skills.
 
I am looking through the Mason catalog and bewildered by the number of tooling items needed to get setup for smith work.
How did you all start- just purchase as you go as projects come in the door?
Get a basic kit and expand?

I am just curious as the upfront costs seem like a barrier for the casual worker to do credible work.

It is about the same to own your own machine shop. Pick up a big catalog like MSC and you would think no one could get started. I already had my hobby Southbend 9C and bought a turret lathe and die head. Each job I took needed more tooling till I have a 3600 square foot shop full of stuff. Hardly need to buy anything for a job anymore. Early days there was not much left over after buying tools, now tooling costs are insignificant. Pile of material on the shelf does not hurt either. Can not see why it would be much different for a gunsmith.
You really want to scare your self take a look at the South West Jeweler's catalog. A million different kind of pliers and raw materials are really expensive.
 
Must've missed it somewhere, but when you say "cost of tooling"- I'm assuming you actually mean tooling, and not the machine tools themselves?

Smithing is nothing but machining...
In reality, there's not as much specialty tooling as you might think. As said, much can be easily shop-made (and much, must be).
If you already have the machine tools and all the typical tooling/indicators associated with them you're off to a good start.

You didn't mention whether you intend to specialize, or be a "general" gunsmith.
Me, I'm a riflesmith. I have no interest in building custom 1911's, or to work on shotguns- just to build precision rifles.
Obviously, specialty tooling needs/costs for a "general" gunsmith will be much more if you want to have the ability to work on pistols, revolvers, shotguns, and rifles.

As also mentioned above, walk-in traffic isn't for me. If you choose to specialize, the entire country is your oyster. USPS and UPS/Fedex bring the business right to my door.
 








 
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