Looking to buy first lathe - Logan

I have been lurking around here for a while and finally have a reason to post. I have been shopping for a lathe for sometime for my shop. I just recently added a Bridgeport mill. My ideal lathe would probably be a Sheldon but they are few and far between. I have a shot at a Logan 820 that I am considering. It is not the ideal lathe for my purposes with the smaller spindle bore and only 24" bed, but there is still quite a bit I can do with it. I'm thinking of picking it up to get started with while I wait for something else to come along.

I just want to make sure it is a good investment. It comes with a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, live center, drill chuck, and some other odds and ends. It does look little rough (at least paint wise) but to my eye everything seems to be there and functions smoothly. There isn't much backlash although it does tighten up a bit on the far end but not overly so. As long as I can get my money back out of this down the road, I think I will pull the trigger. I have posted a couple of pics and would appreciate any feedback. Does anything look to be missing? Any other red flags?

Oh, and to tie this in with gunsmithing, I am currently finishing up an a 9mm Uzi build from a parts kit. The most difficult aspect of the build was making the mods to the bolt to make it semi-auto. Those things are made from some hard steel. I had a friend with a full machine shop do some of the milling on it, and I finished it up with a dremel. Also managed to snap off a carbide bit trying to ream out the firing pin hole just a bit wider.

Thanks in advance,

J

ace400xs said:

I have been lurking around here for a while and finally have a reason to post. I have been shopping for a lathe for sometime for my shop. I just recently added a Bridgeport mill. My ideal lathe would probably be a Sheldon but they are few and far between. I have a shot at a Logan 820 that I am considering. It is not the ideal lathe for my purposes with the smaller spindle bore and only 24" bed, but there is still quite a bit I can do with it. I'm thinking of picking it up to get started with while I wait for something else to come along.

I just want to make sure it is a good investment. It comes with a 3 and 4 jaw chuck, live center, drill chuck, and some other odds and ends. It does look little rough (at least paint wise) but to my eye everything seems to be there and functions smoothly. There isn't much backlash although it does tighten up a bit on the far end but not overly so. As long as I can get my money back out of this down the road, I think I will pull the trigger. I have posted a couple of pics and would appreciate any feedback. Does anything look to be missing? Any other red flags?

Thanks in advance,

J

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About the only lathe more humble than a SB that can be counted on to generate shapes rotated about an axis with minimal fuss. OTOH, so can a Walker-Turner drillpress and a collection of decent files.

Check the back-gears. That pull-rod's convenience has encouraged too many folks to abuse it for locking when the spindle was not yet stopped.

In general?

You are in Ohio?

Unless you have had your driving license suspended, you can do better.

Hard to know if it's either a good investment or if you will get your money back - without knowing what you intend to pay. If it's a couple hundred, fer sure. If it's a couple thousand, not likely.

I'd think that most of Ohio is pretty good hunting for used lathes? If you have the money and time, I'd suggest stepping up a bit from that lathe. It's a decent enough place to start, but pretty soon you'll want a better toolpost, a steady and follow rest, a collet set up and more. Then you'll start noticing the flat belt doesn't transmit torque all that well, wish you had something besides a threaded chuck on that small spindle bore, maybe want metric threading options . . .

Point being that you may spend another $1000 equipping that lathe -- and still find it's not the lathe you want. You probably won't get your money back on most of those accessories, which tend to be dearly priced when hunting up on Ebay etc. Better to start with something that will carry you a bit further -- perhaps better tooled to begin -- as you add accessories.

Monarchist said:

You are in Ohio?

Unless you have had your driving license suspended, you can do better.

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Haha that's funny!

In 10 minutes i bet I could find five better options.

Monarchist said:

You are in Ohio?

Unless you have had your driving license suspended, you can do better.

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I got a chuckle out of that too.

Perhaps it's the price range that I have been shopping in, but I always end up being a day late when a good deal pops up. Btw, the price on this Logan is well under $1000.

There is a lot of 5 South Bend 13x24s currently at Cleveland Machinery, but they appear to have been there for quite some time so I assume there is a reason.

One thing I have learned is just because it's on Craigslist doesn't mean it's available but a lot of times one Craigslist ad will lead to a whole shop full of tools for sale. That is how I found my mill. If someone has other suggestions though, I would welcome them.

J

My buddy had a sheldon he was selling pm if you would like his info. located in NE Ohio

I you will want a steady .. so figure that in the lathe investment. You can fudge one up by making a riser base for any you might find for a time.

All the gears with none broken and the flatness of the bed important. Paint does not count.
Backlash to be expected, doesn't count much and is easy to fix.

michiganbuck said:

All the gears with none broken and the flatness of the bed important. Paint does not count.
Backlash to be expected, doesn't count much and is easy to fix.

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Gears all looked good, no broken teeth, and we ran through most of them. What is the easiest way to check the flatness of the bed?

Oh and I am willing to drive quite a ways for the right deal. Pretty much any place that would be a day trip.

J

Buying from a user is better that from a machine flipper. Don't be afraid to ask questions like.. "If I turn 20" can I expect the diameter to hold .004 or better for variance of size?" Buying a running lathe is good so you might see the finish on a piece of steel.

QT: only 24" bed.. That could be a problem for your intended work.. Think of what you wish to do with the machine.. for gun work measure a few guns.

A good deal is great..possible if straight you might clean it up and make $500... But for an intended use you need to get what fits your intentions even if it cost a grand more.

I used to turn 98 barrels out of a 4jaw and between centers..Likely that lathe would not do that job.

Looks a little light duty for what you are intending it for. Here is a Clausing in SE Wisconsin.
Clausing lathe for sale | Shooters' Forum

kendog said:

Looks a little light duty for what you are intending it for. Here is a Clausing in SE Wisconsin.
Clausing lathe for sale | Shooters' Forum

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Looks enticing and not an unrealistic drive. Thanks for the lead.

Ace: I had a 920 (very similar to 820 I think) that I bought for my boys to learn on. Pretty pristine, nicer than the one in the picture. I got it for $800. Then about year later got a deal on a SB 13 so set out to sell the 920. I put it on craigs list nothing, then put it on ebay as a straight auction starting low (mistake) and got i think $130 for it. One of my worst investments. I won't buy another.

Also, when I get an older machine I like to take things apart and give them a nice cleaning and a once over. My best description is that it is a southbend want-to-be. I'd hold out for a southbend, monarch, etc.

ace400xs said:

Looks enticing and not an unrealistic drive. Thanks for the lead.

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You are welcome. I have a Clausing 6300 built in 1953. Perfect for rifle barrel work through the headstock. A little clapped out, but I know where the wear is and it does what I tell it to.

ace400xs said:

If someone has other suggestions though, I would welcome them.

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Firmest one I have is that unless all the 'smithing you ever plan to do is limited to handguns, AND NOT long ones even so?

36" 'tween centers or better is a must. 24" inches or less just won't do, even if the barrels are 'usually' a good deal shorter.

A clever and motivated person can work around too-small or too-long spindle bores, but all else wants subtracting daylight for workholding at the spindle end, and some form of tooling at the TS end, such as a drill chuck or floating reamer holder.

Machine-tool accuracy is otherwise relatively undemanding for a gunsmith.

HE, not the machine, has to supply that.

If only because every task that walks in the door has a 'personality' and challenges of its own, Royal Bitch Kitty setups and already asymmetrical goods among those..

It just ain't the same game as refacing commodity disk-brake rotors or cranking out a few hundred 'billet' anodized foolish-lights, fountain-pen barrels, or stupidcharger drive pulleys.

I guess I thought based on my reading on this forum and other's that the Logan's were held in higher esteem than they seem to be, at least on this thread.

The spindle bore and the length are definitely not ideal for handling a wide range of barrel work, however I can definitely think of projects on my list that would be sized appropriately. Turning a new RPK barrel however would definitely be a no-go.

I didn't think about that aspect of tooling it up but then having retool with a new lathe and that is definitely something to consider.

One thing I will throw in here is I have another thread on here regarding a Boye and Emmes lathe that I can still can get my hands on locally and relatively cheaply, around $500. It is a bit more lathe than I think I need with its 18" swing and 4' between centers and it would take a lot more room in my shop than I prefer. I'm not sure how it it deal with smaller scale work.
J

ace400xs said:

It is a bit more lathe than I think I need with its 18" swing and 4' between centers and it would take a lot more room in my shop than I prefer. I'm not sure how it it deal with smaller scale work.
J

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The issues with LARGE lathes for gunsmithing, even those of superb accuracy, are many-fold.

First - there is 'too much' rotating mass in the machine itself plus even modest workholding for comfort on small work. They become a challenge to hand-rotate precisely when that is needed, can break a tap, costly custom reamer - or your left arm - with the utmost of total indifference.

Second, their most basic tooling starts to cost the very Earth. Just price a backplate and chuck. even a dead-center. Then a toolpost 'system'.

Third, finding or funding the power budget to motate it won't be an issue with that Boyes, nor a vintage Hendey tie-bar, 13" - 14" SB or Sheldon S or R. It surely can become so for a Large & Shapely, ATW, or Axelson, or several of the Monarchs, even not-so-large ones.

Finally, unless licensed to do cannon barrels, 10" nominal, 12.5" actual is a 'sweet spot", 9" swing will do, so long as it has a bed long enough (which is rare on anybody's 9-er..) and even 14" starts to get more expensive to tool-up already.

"Horses for courses."

You will have more challenges than enough without also crippling yourself with a poor fit in machinery.

You will quickly relegate the Logan to boring and polishing duties. Look for a clean Rockwell 11". It is much better matched to gunsmithing. The tooling for each lathe costs the same. Regards, Clark

That's a pretty rough looking lathe. There are things a Logan do better than a SB, and things a SB can do better than a Logan. I'd hold out for something in better shape, better suited to what you want to do.

ace400xs said:

I guess I thought based on my reading on this forum and other's that the Logan's were held in higher esteem than they seem to be, at least on this thread.

The spindle bore and the length are definitely not ideal for handling a wide range of barrel work, however I can definitely think of projects on my list that would be sized appropriately. Turning a new RPK barrel however would definitely be a no-go.

I didn't think about that aspect of tooling it up but then having retool with a new lathe and that is definitely something to consider.

One thing I will throw in here is I have another thread on here regarding a Boye and Emmes lathe that I can still can get my hands on locally and relatively cheaply, around $500. It is a bit more lathe than I think I need with its 18" swing and 4' between centers and it would take a lot more room in my shop than I prefer. I'm not sure how it it deal with smaller scale work.
J

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If you are pretty serious about gunsmithing work, you might skip these older machines in dubious condition and look at a Taiwanese 1340 or even a HD 1440 for slightly greater weight and rigidity. Several companies (Precision Matthews, is a very good outfit) offer PL machines manufactured in the Liang Dei or other high-quality Taiwanese factories. Lots of guys on PM go apoplectic over the mention ANY Asian machine. Its okay in the gunsmithing forum, but not so much anywhere else. Trust me, they are not all created equal. Precision Matthews, for example, offers a 5 Year Warranty. They are not at all like Grizzly,HF, etc...Chicom garbage. I use a PM 1340GT 3-4 times a week for barrel work. Spindle-bore is adequate for darned-near anything. Maybe not 50 BMG, but the 1440 has a 2" Bore and could handle it. Chambering through the headstock which is less than 15" is a breeze. Swing is just about perfect. Stick an Aloris BXA on it, use 5/8" tools and save $$ over bigger alternatives. You don't need "bigger" anything. You will spend maybe $8000 for the machine (do pay extra for the Bison 4 Jaw and a decent DRO) and maybe $3,500-4,000 for tooling. That would include cool stuff like a "Viper 3-1 chambering Fixture-Jig", floating reamer holder, Warner HSS tooling (Don't screw with carbide for gun work, you want to be able to go SLOW), 4 top-rung Swiss dial indicators (2 apiece, .001 and .0001), Noga holders with fine adjust, the little series of "Edge" doodads like their little toolpost indicator, TS alignment bar, etc... and other needfuls as you go along. If you want to spend even less, start with a 1236 from Precision Matthews or any one of 3-4 others I could point you to.

All of us love American, European (and in my case Japanese) machines. I'm hung-up on Hembrug, Cazaneuve, Takisawa, and Aciera. Looking now to buy an Aciera F5 like yesterday! As your shop space grows you can pick up some cool older machines like those and have a blast makin' Chips fly. But, as a practical matter, you can put together a hell of a fine gunsmithing set-up with a Taiwanese lathe and the mill you already have.

Good luck, whatever you decide!

Old Squire

Conrad Hoffman said:

That's a pretty rough looking lathe. There are things a Logan do better than a SB, and things a SB can do better than a Logan. I'd hold out for something in better shape, better suited to what you want to do.

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Here is a lathe not too far to drive.But it is a turret lathe and I think not having a steady or a 4jaw.
Don't know how good it is but you might call and ask the right questions.
South Bend Heavy 1 Lathe

That Logan Could be an Ok lathe but a bit short IMHO. My gun smith uses the same but in a 36" or so.
Think you would be best served with Quick change, 36" or so , less than 2 hp , straight thread cutting lathe.. such may cost $1,500 to $3,000 or so.

Best IMHO would have steady, good 4 jaw, QC gear box and a taper attachment.. but then paying bigger bucks.

Yes some get along with changing the gears so a very good lathe with changing gears would be better than a crap lathe with QC. as you only change the gears for threading.