Looking for an engraver recommendation

Gos · Nov 16, 2018

Greetings,
For those of you doing gun parts on non CNC machines, what do you like to use for a cost effective engraver? It takes me forever to mill something in by hand, and it's getting old.
Obviously Ebay, Amazon, etc has quit the collection of out-of-china-junk engravers, but I'd rather hear from someone who's already using an engraver they like for gun parts.
Thanks,
Gos

Butch Lambert · Nov 17, 2018

Gos said:
Greetings,
For those of you doing gun parts on non CNC machines, what do you like to use for a cost effective engraver? It takes me forever to mill something in by hand, and it's getting old.
Obviously Ebay, Amazon, etc has quit the collection of out-of-china-junk engravers, but I'd rather hear from someone who's already using an engraver they like for gun parts.
Thanks,
Gos

I've used a New Hermes for many years. You need to watch the folks selling fonts. Most are not selling full sets. Like anything else, search out what you are buying.

thermite · Nov 17, 2018

Gos said:
Greetings,
For those of you doing gun parts on non CNC machines, what do you like to use for a cost effective engraver? It takes me forever to mill something in by hand, and it's getting old.
Obviously Ebay, Amazon, etc has quit the collection of out-of-china-junk engravers, but I'd rather hear from someone who's already using an engraver they like for gun parts.
Thanks,
Gos

I have had - Gorton at one Day Job, milling curved cutouts and such, not lettering. I was the operator and liked it. New Hermes at another Day Job and lettering only. Busy season I'd pitch-in after my full-time engraver was worn-out.

I OWN an H. B. Preise, with traverse goodies more suitable to micro-milling, air pencil and electric (New Hermes, actually) heads.

It was dirt-cheap, and I like that part. But I don't do any "lettering" with it at all. That is too easily hired done by a Trophy shop or label/data plate maker as i don't have any need to letter gun parts nor other curved surfaces of any kind.

It is for weird shapes, rather. Cams. Latches & pawls, etc.

Though those are not what is on my own plate, to a gunsmith, that might include sideplates for a flintlock or the like.

Not to forget that a manual pantograph can still fit rather well for more that "just" lettering.

20CW

Trboatworks · Nov 17, 2018

Gos said:
Greetings,
For those of you doing gun parts on non CNC machines, what do you like to use for a cost effective engraver? It takes me forever to mill something in by hand, and it's getting old.
Obviously Ebay, Amazon, etc has quit the collection of out-of-china-junk engravers, but I'd rather hear from someone who's already using an engraver they like for gun parts.
Thanks,
Gos

Are you talking a Panto?
Keep in mind the at these old machines are married to the master- what are you trying to engrave into metal?
Just a few letters and numbers?

I have used a Gorton 3U for many years- fantastic machine but setup is tiresome..

Gos · Nov 17, 2018

I'd rather find a spindle type machine for custom lettering, numbers and one offs symbols.

thermite · Nov 17, 2018

Gos said:
I'd rather find a spindle type machine for custom lettering, numbers and one offs symbols.

So just do that. It is only money, and it sure as God made little green apples looks nicer than a laser when done just so.

Also a fight rucking ass-dister when NOT! Wise to test-run a setup onto at least plastic stock and proof it for ALL features, font, spacing, alignment, and more - not just spelling.

Might take some time to set up and vet, but I have examples approaching the hundred year mark since engraved, and I am well aware that "I ain't seen shit" because those are all "working" firearms, not collector's antiques a hundred years and more older yet.

20CW

Gos · Nov 18, 2018

I'm not asking the question correctly.
What I'm hoping to find is a small cnc type engraver that uses a carbide bit to do various fonts of lettering and numbering for small parts (under 12" x 6"). When I start looking for them using search engines I quickly get a lot of results from listings on Ebay and Amazon. Reading the reviews is almost unless since the stuff coming out of China seems to have little or now quality control. One feedback is great, another feedback is junk.

Has anyone here used or can recommend from experience such a small engraver that can do aluminum or steel? This is for my own garage not any kind of production work. While a laser system would be great, I'm pretty sure that what's affordable to me will not do metal in any depth that fulfills ATF requirements.

Thanks again,
Gos

thermite · Nov 18, 2018

Gos said:
I'm not asking the question correctly.
What I'm hoping to find is a small cnc type engraver that uses a carbide bit to do various fonts of lettering and numbering for small parts (under 12" x 6"). When I start looking for them using search engines I quickly get a lot of results from listings on Ebay and Amazon. Reading the reviews is almost unless since the stuff coming out of China seems to have little or now quality control. One feedback is great, another feedback is junk.

Has anyone here used or can recommend from experience such a small engraver that can do aluminum or steel? This is for my own garage not any kind of production work. While a laser system would be great, I'm pretty sure that what's affordable to me will not do metal in any depth that fulfills ATF requirements.

Thanks again,
Gos

Gos, it may not be a "correct" assumption, but I'd think you would want a "device" that can do a good job on curved material - such as a wheelgun cylinder or on any sort of barrel - and not "just" flat surfaces, yah? Diamond-drag engraving the INSIDE of a tiny wedding band was that sort of speciality, done with an attachment, New Hermes. So, too material where the engraving had to follow a sharpish curve or an arc.

"Cut" engraving and on hard steels, not soft Silver or Gold is more demanding by far.

I don't think anybody's "general purpose" engraver made for nameplates and trophy work will "cut it", literally, to a standard worth doing if that is what needs to be done even if only a part of the time.

Find out what the most well-regarded makers use, then see if the second or fourth place winner is good enough at a lower cost if but used more slowly and carefully, mayhap?

20CW

Trboatworks · Nov 18, 2018

Bill did you ever look at the contour guides used on the 2d pantographs.
A workable work around to cut cylinders etc

thermite · Nov 18, 2018

Trboatworks said:
Bill did you ever look at the contour guides used on the 2d pantographs.
A workable work around to cut cylinders etc

Not in about 40 years, no!

I'm nowhere near "current", CNC critters least of all.

Just happen to own some really nicely engraved on-barrel firearms, and figured it might matter to the OP he could do that proper and impressive-like, not kludged and hobby-grade.

Trboatworks · Nov 18, 2018

My older sis had a matching pair of WWI Maxim guns.
As pretty a engraved receiver as one could want- I wish I had some photos as she has long since sold them off.
You put it well- our op needs to understand the challenges if he is trying for anything outside of flat work.

It would be painful to develop the master but the sundry gun engravings don’t particularly challenge the old panto machines.

This sort of stuff- np:

But always the challenge of creating the master.
If one wants to go here, I imagine rapidly building frustration if this sort of work is not rewarding as compared to simply commanding the CNC to dial up a produced image and lay it down:

GunBum · Nov 18, 2018

I use a Gorton Pantograph, like others have stated. For custom fonts or lettering, I use a cheap 3 axis CNC router to make a "stencil" in aluminum or ABS. Then I use the stencil on the pantograph to mark the receiver. If I'm marking an aluminum receiver, then I usually just engrave directly from the cheap CNC router.

thermite · Nov 18, 2018

GunBum said:
I use a Gorton Pantograph, like others have stated. For custom fonts or lettering, I use a cheap 3 axis CNC router to make a "stencil" in aluminum or ABS. Then I use the stencil on the pantograph to mark the receiver.

About as pragmatic approach as can be to get easy access to all manner, size, and spacing of font and special character choices..

Yet NOT have to invest in heavily specialized - read "costlier" equipment. I like it!

Pete Deal · Nov 18, 2018

I had a New Hermes engraver. I think it was the TX model. Many of their engravers are designed to engrave flat stuff only. This one was about 12" high and could do bigger stuff. I think it may have been made the size it was for engraving bowling balls but not sure. The really nice thing about the New Hermes machines is they have a rub collar around the tool so for cylindrical or somewhat irregular parts the cutter would follow the surface pretty well. With good sharp cutters this would do some nice engraving on about anything.

I got lustful for a Gorton and sold the New Hermes and bought a Gorton P1-2. This is sort-of more like a mini milling machine. I still have it. It is a beautiful machine and also does very nice engraving. The trouble here is that it not quite as easy to get to follow an irregular surface. To engrave in a cylinder you need to make a concave cylindrical shape and mount it on a bar above the spindle. A stylus on the spindle follows this shape and causes the cutter to follow the cylinder. It is more of a project to get setup.

All this stuff is dirt cheap now but hard to find complete. The biggest reason I keep my Gorton is that it is not worth much of anything.

You mention CNC work. I bought some software called MillWrite. This is sort-of a little engraving CAM program that really is very powerful. Much more capability in engraving than I have seen in any of the full blown CAM systems, which I have not seen a lot of, but it seems mostly they are not that great. Google "Millwrite practicalmachinist.com" and you will see quite a few people on here use it or have used it and speak highly of it.

Gos · Nov 18, 2018

Pete Deal said:
I had a New Hermes engraver. I think it was the TX model. Many of their engravers are designed to engrave flat stuff only. This one was about 12" high and could do bigger stuff. I think it may have been made the size it was for engraving bowling balls but not sure. The really nice thing about the New Hermes machines is they have a rub collar around the tool so for cylindrical or somewhat irregular parts the cutter would follow the surface pretty well. With good sharp cutters this would do some nice engraving on about anything.

I got lustful for a Gorton and sold the New Hermes and bought a Gorton P1-2. This is sort-of more like a mini milling machine. I still have it. It is a beautiful machine and also does very nice engraving. The trouble here is that it not quite as easy to get to follow an irregular surface. To engrave in a cylinder you need to make a concave cylindrical shape and mount it on a bar above the spindle. A stylus on the spindle follows this shape and causes the cutter to follow the cylinder. It is more of a project to get setup.

All this stuff is dirt cheap now but hard to find complete. The biggest reason I keep my Gorton is that it is not worth much of anything.

You mention CNC work. I bought some software called MillWrite. This is sort-of a little engraving CAM program that really is very powerful. Much more capability in engraving than I have seen in any of the full blown CAM systems, which I have not seen a lot of, but it seems mostly they are not that great. Google "Millwrite practicalmachinist.com" and you will see quite a few people on here use it or have used it and speak highly of it.

Got it.
Thanks.
I also found a 2 axis cnc mini milling table. Perhaps I could fasten that down on my Bridgeport for the engraving process and go from there. Of course being an old guy with no CNC experience I'll have to figure out how to power and control one first.
Thanks everyone who responded with their suggestions. Much appreciated.

thermite · Nov 18, 2018

Gos said:
Got it.
Thanks.
I also found a 2 axis cnc mini milling table. Perhaps I could fasten that down on my Bridgeport for the engraving process and go from there. Of course being an old guy with no CNC experience I'll have to figure out how to power and control one first.
Thanks everyone who responded with their suggestions. Much appreciated.

Maybe not. That software "Millwrite" he cited?

It shoudln't be much different that my piping a graph ELSE TEXT, cursive if need be, to a Nicolet pen-plotter, circa 1980's - before Laser-raster, was common. IOW - you don't need to deal with the "bones" on that sort of application, they've already integrated and cloaked all that.

Trboatworks · Nov 19, 2018

HPGL in those huge pen plotters.
Ah the good old days...
Oh course I went backwards in time from there to the damn Gortons.

Mram10 · Nov 21, 2018

I’m very interested in this too. Looking for a newer solution since technology has really accelerated in this area

tobnpr · Nov 22, 2018

For the number of barrels I deal with, laser engraver is out of the question- and there's no engraving shop within 100 miles that can handle the length of rifle barrels in their machines. Still using a shop-made jig and fonts for caliber barrel stamping.

I'm now concentrating on learning about acid etching- inexpensive, attractive, and even somewhat complex logos are not a problem

Mram10 · Nov 23, 2018

Just learned how to do electrochemical etching today. It surprisingly worked very well. I used my car battery charger on the 12v 10amp setting. The pad was a rolled up piece of fiberglass matting. Soaked it in vinegar/salt mix. Held for 10 seconds pulled away, then repeated. Definitely room for improvement, but a lot of potential

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