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    Smile Magnet attached barrel

    Hello everyone.

    I have a question regarding the design of a muzzleloaded sidelock pistol. Since the barrel of the pistol has a closed breech, the only force upon firing is the recoil pushing the barrel back towards the receiver right? How strong does the attachment to the receiver need to be, in order to make the barrel stay in place upon firing?

    I’m asking this question because it would be neat with a small derringer style pistol like this one http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/images/screwgun.jpg with a removable barrel that lock in place with just a magnet (a strong magnet though, but how strong is necessary for .44 cal?). The concept is to have two barrels that easily can replace eachother, so that the fired one can be replaced with a new pre-loaded one.

    What do I need to consider?

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    The load is NOT pushing backward. It is pushing in every direction. Path of least resistance would be the plugged barrel (loaded with round and wad) flying off your hand cannon and likely burning you a fair bit in the process. Use a safe a proven method of barrel retention. Or better yet, do not start playing with explosives with questions like this.

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    Guess one could have the barrel not threaded and held with two wraps of gorrila tape..fire from vise held and a long string at the trigger.

    I think the gun would kick back and the barrel along with the bullet would go flying toward the target.

    Yes it would not go straight very long but would tumble an spin...so better do this outside with nobody even close.

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    I think there’s some misunderstandings here.

    The screw barrel example in the previous picture was a bad example. Here’s a picture that clarifies what I mean: Imgur: The magic of the Internet The only holes in the barrel are the muzzle and the touchhole.

    The barrel is not a hollow barrel, the breech is permanent closed just like an old school cannon. So the barrel itself will contain all pressure i.e the magnet will not prevent the pressure from escaping. What I wounder is if the barrel will ”flip over” because of the momentum of the recoil, and therefore I wounder how strong the magnet need to be for a .44 cal ~30grain black powder pistol?

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    I think the friction of the bullet in the barrel would pull the barrel forward even is capped at the back end.. but perhaps with pressure still pushing/expanding it might hold?

    build and test it

    guess some physics majors would have the answer already.

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    The barrel will of course move in the opposite direction to the bullet.....Newtons Laws of Motion...For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction......I do think a magnet would hold the barrel.....because some of the magnets now available are unbelievably strong....quite dangerously so....In fact , once attached ,you may not be able to separate barrel and magnet......................an open breech can also work ....CF ...the recoillless cannon...under certain conditions.

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    OK, there are at least 3 forces for the magnet to restrain:
    1. The hammer striking the cap on the nipple is trying to push the barrel forward.
    2. If the barrel is rifled, then rotating the ball will try to rotate the barrel in the opposite direction. Smooth bore eliminates this concern.
    3. When the handgun recoils, the barrel will have inertia upward. When you stop the recoil, the magnet will have to prevent the barrel from separating and splitting your skull.

    Interesting thought. Most traditional MLs I've seen have a hook at the back of the barrel, and a wedge to hold the barrel down to the stock. Hook and magnet might work. Test from a distance, and to the side.

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    would the harmonics that cause barrel whip be a factor to consider?

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    If you get one of the supermagnets available now,I think you will not be able to remove the barrel.You have to get one to appreciate the force.....they can also cause amusing (not to you) personal injuries.......cf ..."Millenial scientist gets magnets stuck up nose"

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    wow, guess it takes a pandemic lockdown to really bring the creepy-crawly things out of the woodwork... magnets to hold on a barrel.. MAGNETS...! ok, maybe if it just retains the closed breach barrel in a socket that can resist the recoil forces, but still, what is the plan here, a rapid reload? a quick change of caliber? oh, I've got another 3 or 4 barrels here somewhere.. hope they aren't in my sunday go to meeting suit..

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    The barrel is a smoothbore loaded with a patched roundball.

    Maybe a mechanical solution is a better approach? Something like this: Imgur: The magic of the Internet The ”pin” at the receiver is inserted into the hole at the rear of the barrel.

    Here’s another design, mechanical and magnetic combined: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

    What I’m really trying to achieve here is a very simple single shot muzzleloaded pistol that easily can be reloaded by switching to a preloaded barrel after firing.

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    You might want to make sure your life insurance is paid up in full?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
    The barrel is a smoothbore loaded with a patched roundball.

    Maybe a mechanical solution is a better approach? Something like this: Imgur: The magic of the Internet not a perfect sketch, but you get the idea. The two ”pins” at the receiver are inserted into the two vertical holes at the rear of the barrel.

    Here’s another design, mechanical and magnetic combined: [url=https://imgur.com/sySEUCm]

    What I’m really trying to achieve here is a very simple single shot muzzleloaded pistol that easily can be reloaded by switching to a preloaded barrel after firing.
    Cant you just have another barrel attached below, or next to the first? Gun would have both of your barrels ready to fire.
    Go overkill and put 4 barrels, it could be like a pepperbox.

    A little more work but if you just had a larger "barrel" that held a few loads, maybe as many as 5 or 6, that you could rotate to line up with the one barrel.
    I worry that by swapping barrels you will lose accuracy, all barrels will shoot slightly different from each other.

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    Actually, my plan is to later on make it like a pepperbox or something similar, that holds multiple shots. So if I make a 6-shot pepperbox, I’ll have another (or multiple others) 6-shot cylinder that the gun can be reloaded with fast, like a magazine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Model62 View Post
    Actually, my plan is to later on make it like a pepperbox or something similar, that holds multiple shots. So if I make a 6-shot pepperbox, I’ll have another (or multiple others) 6-shot cylinder that the gun can be reloaded with fast, like a magazine.

    We've well passed the "ludicrous" stage here guys. Most everything you mention has been tried, and failed miserably (except the magnet, no one would be so silly I hope). Multi-barrels in a rifle past 2, and even 2 can get a bit heavy in the field, become so awkward to move around you'd need a sherpa to carry the extra load. The only successful multi-barrel rifle I can think of was the gatling gun (and variations) but it was heavy as all get out and needed to be supported.

    You have very little concept of the physics involved, "The barrel is not a hollow barrel, the breech is permanent closed just like an old school cannon. So the barrel itself will contain all pressure i.e the magnet will not prevent the pressure from escaping." As has been pointed out previously, the barrel does not contain the "recoil" and by the time you have a magnet strong enough to hold the barrel on it will be more than difficult to "quickly swap it out".

    Now, all that being said, there is a solution to what you want to achieve as best as I can ascertain...


    Uberti 1858 Remington Black Powder Revolving Carbine 44 Cal 18 Barrel

    Multiple shots, relatively light weight, heck, you could even carry and extra pre-loaded cylinder to swap out with.

    JMHO

    -Ron

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    4 loaded barrels.....how about 4 pistols. Just thinking...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalCarnage View Post
    We've well passed the "ludicrous" stage here guys. Most everything you mention has been tried, and failed miserably (except the magnet, no one would be so silly I hope). Multi-barrels in a rifle past 2, and even 2 can get a bit heavy in the field, become so awkward to move around you'd need a sherpa to carry the extra load. The only successful multi-barrel rifle I can think of was the gatling gun (and variations) but it was heavy as all get out and needed to be supported.

    You have very little concept of the physics involved, "The barrel is not a hollow barrel, the breech is permanent closed just like an old school cannon. So the barrel itself will contain all pressure i.e the magnet will not prevent the pressure from escaping." As has been pointed out previously, the barrel does not contain the "recoil" and by the time you have a magnet strong enough to hold the barrel on it will be more than difficult to "quickly swap it out".

    Now, all that being said, there is a solution to what you want to achieve as best as I can ascertain...


    Uberti 1858 Remington Black Powder Revolving Carbine 44 Cal 18 Barrel

    Multiple shots, relatively light weight, heck, you could even carry and extra pre-loaded cylinder to swap out with.

    JMHO

    -Ron
    I’m not making a rifle, but a pistol. Just like the original pepperbox revolver, which wasn’t a failure but actually a pretty popular sidearm back in the days, the barrels/cylinder were pretty short. The barrel length I’m aiming for with this project is like 4” so it won’t be that heavy. Some heaviness could be good though to counteract the recoil.

    I don’t mean that the barrel won’t transfer the recoil to the handle, of course it will, but it seemed to me that people at the beginning though that the magnet was going to contain the pressure of the burning propellant, which isn’t the case.

    Watch this gun fire: YouTube
    The rhino revolver transfer the recoil differently compared to a ordinary revolver, it’s a interesting design. I think that even a weak magnet would be able to hold a barrel in place with such design, but this gun is another case: YouTube

    I want the barrel to be firmly attached though not weakly, I got the idea to use magnets when I was using some small neodymium magnets, they are suprisingly strong. With a short barrel, especially a pepperbox cylinder, attached to an equally diametrical sized neodymium magnet the surface area of attachment will be big, but at the same time it should still be easy enough to detach it by hand using some force. A mechanical solution that allows fast detachment and reattachment but provides superior strength would be a better option, if not the manufacturing process would be much harder and the magnet could do the job good enough anyway.

    The idea here is to create something simple but functional. I don’t consider a revolver simple to manufacture, even though it’s more functional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    4 loaded barrels.....how about 4 pistols. Just thinking...
    A newyork-reload solution is a solution, but if I can get this ”switching barrel” concept to work I think it’s a better solution since it will allow less weight and more compactness for basically the same result. Multiple receivers, handles and mechanisms will add much more extra weight and space compared to only the extra barrels.

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    Four barrel pistols with four stationary barrels and a revolving firing mechanism were quite common.....the Starr was a small one ,and the Lancaster in cals like 577 was a large one,to despatch tigers.

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    What about instead of having a removable barrel, make it fit into a sleeve in the frame/handle asm.? That and I would rather use some kind of simple cam-lock or compression sleeve than a magnet to hold it in, but a sleeve would at least capture it and keep it from sliding off the side or something.

    Think of it this way, your not making a removable barrel, you're making a cased bullet that is the full length of your barrel and drops in the front. You still need something to retain it and a magnet isn't it IMO.

    It's still going to be a risk of blowing your hand up, but at least the barrel will be less likely to fly off.


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