Making new savage 110 bbl
Close
Login to Your Account
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    3,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1818
    Likes (Received)
    800

    Default

    Hi guys. A little background... I own my own cnc/ manual machine shop. I have been machining for about 15 yrs. I got into gunsmithing as a hoby, trying to duplicate everything my mentor does.(strictly 1911's) We trade machining for smith lessons. (full time smith) Anyway, I just bought a new 1.2"x 26 bbl for my savage. I have never made a barrel from the "white" condition. I can duplicate the threads, and stuff on my bbl, but I do not want to strip the rifle down as of yet. (I might need it) What threads (dai, pitch, class,) are on a 110 long action, what other details would I see when I remove the bbl nut? I would like to set up the bbl, prior to actual disassembly of the weapon. Is this a bad idea? Is the reamer for the caliber ground to some special point? Any and all ideas are welcomed. BTW, I will go get the video mentioned in a few of the other posts.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Ok, let me see if I can help ya. This will sound more complicated than it really is. It's really simple.

    Major Diameter = 1.055
    thread pitch = 20 tpi 60 deg "v" form
    Shank lenght = 1.565 (models w/ a safety breech) OR 1.315 (models w/ standard breech) OR .710 (models w/ no bbl nut)

    That should get your threaded shank right, your action may vary on the length very slightly. If you are going for maximum accuracy you should true receiver face, lap lugs and lap bolt face, in that order.

    You can go ahead and dial in your bbl before disassembling your rifle. You can also turn down to major diameter and thread, but be sure to cut your shank length about .050 too long, depending on the breaching system your gun uses.

    BTW be sure you chamber the end of the bbl that has stamping on it.

    The reamer wont be ground to a point it will have a pilot that matches your caliber to guide it straight down the bore.

    Let me know what breeching system your rifle has and I can give you the information to calculate your "go-guage" protrusion.

    Yell back if you need any more info, I'll be happy to pass along anything you need.

    Chad

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    3,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1818
    Likes (Received)
    800

    Default

    Chad, thanks for the reply. I did not know about chambering the stamped end. Many thanks! I hate to admit it, but I do not know what kind of breeching system that I have. How do I tell? Sorry for the overly novice question. Thanks again for the info.
    Doug.

    [This message has been edited by doug925 (edited 05-07-2003).]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Not a problem Doug. The way to tell what type breeching system you have is to:

    Pull the bolt back or better yet take it out. Then, looking into the action (a flashlight helps) and towards the barrel, you'll see one of two things. 1) the rear of the bbl will have a counterbore in it that the end of the bolt actually closes into. or 2) the back of the bbl will be flat accross back and the bolt just closes without touching it.

    If it has a counterbore it is a safety breech, if its flat it is a standard breech.

    That is the easiest way to tell without removing the barrel.

    When I was in school I actually convinced a fellow student to chamber the wrong end of his barrel, believe it or not I actually felt bad when he couldn't hit the side of a barn!

    Let me know what you have and if you need me to I can relay to you the best setup and chambering methods that I know of. I've got a couple of little tricks that really help, depending on the accuracy you are wanting.

    Chad

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    3,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1818
    Likes (Received)
    800

    Default

    Thanks for the help in determining the breech type. It is a standard breech. I am looking for accuracy of a 1/2 groups at 100 yds, maybe same @ 150-200. I do not think that I am capable of said accuracy, but I would love the rifle to be. The bbl that I have on there now shoots (best ever grouping) .687 dia. hole with 5 rnds. of 168 grain bthp, with 84.1 gn hodgdon 4350. The problem is that I do not like the bbl contour. I would like a more tactical appearance. Hence the new VERY HEAVY bull bbl. This rifle will become a benchrest only gun of sorts. Thank for any tips you can give me.
    Best Regards,

    Doug.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    OK Doug, I'll tell you how I'd set this up. For the max accuracy possible you should go ahead and true the action before fitting the barrel

    Depending on the brand of barrel you have there should be center drill cuts on both ends. When I am after max accuracy I always recut those centers. This isn't always necessary but on a match barrel I always do it.

    RECUT THE CENTERS
    I dial in the bbl using a 4 jaw I either wrap masking tape around the end thats in the spindle bore, making a tight bushing. Or you can hold the back end in a spindle spider. I use a dial test indicator and indicate off the bore. When dialing in the bore your indicator will jump about .004 between lands and grooves. Set a zero on the grooves and dial it in like that, keeping track of the lands and grooves.

    TURN AND THREAD THE SHANK
    After you recut the centers (if you decide to)you can turn down the shank to major diameter (1.055) with a length of (1.365). You will be leaving about .050 for fitting to your receiver. Then thread the shank cutting 60 degree threads 20 TPI. YOu may have to neck the barrel, I don't remember if there is thread releif at the front of the action. Actual threaded shank length can be calculated by measuring from the face of the receiver to the forward most part of the bolt then subtract .005

    FIT THE BBL TO THE ACTION
    Once the barrel is threaded you should start facing off the end of the bbl until you get the action to screw on, and make slight contact with the shoulder. Use "dykem" on the shoulder so you can check for contact.

    CALCULATE GGP
    Measure from the face of the receiver to the bolt face then subtract your shank length (above) then subtract another .001 to .002. This will give you your "go gage protrusion". This will be how far out of the bbl your go guage will protrude when you have cut your chamber far enough.

    CHAMBERING THE BARREL
    Before starting I always put dykem on one flute of the reamer. Hold the reamer and go guage side by side and scribe a line at the end of the go guage then add ggp and scribe another line there. For example (if ggp is .110 this line will be .110 closer to the front of the reamer.) The reamer will be a piloted tool that should match your bore dimension fairly closely. I use a floating reamer holder to hold the reamer while I chamber. If your lathe centers are totally aligned you can hold it in a drill chuck. I will start the reamer in to the bore and rotate the tailstock handwheel about 1/2 turn then back it out and clean the chips off. Keep the reamer oiled. If you have done reaming before on a lathe its just like that except the chamber reamer will have a pilot and look like a cartridge case. Other than that it's just a straight fluted reamer. I use an air hose to clear chips out of the chamber before I go back in with the reamer. As with any reaming operation you need to watch for high and low frequency chatter as well as an out of round hole. When you have run your reamer into the bore and are just ahead of your front line (ggp line) you need to proceed very slowly and check headspace with your go and no go guages. With your action screwed on your bbl your bolt should close on the go guage and not on the no go.

    Your barrel should now be ready to taper and crown.

    I don't know what kind of taper you want so I will skip to the crown.

    CROWNING THE BBL
    The crown is absolutely critical to accuracy. The way I like to crown is to put the bbl thru the headstock and dial it in just like you did before, use a tape bushing or a spindle spider. I use a crowning tool made from a 5/16 HSS tool bit, I like an 11 degree recessed target crown. I face off the end of the bbl flat, then starting at the bore and working inside to out, I cut an 11 degree taper and cut this 11 degree out to a point to where I like the look, leaving a flat faced off portion around the outside to protect the crown.

    I gave alot of info and am certain I left out some key elements if you are unclear or I left out something, please let me know.

    BTW what caliber are you doing and do you have a reamer and guages? If not they can be rented from shawnie tool or any reamer supplier.

    Chad

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    3,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1818
    Likes (Received)
    800

    Default

    Chad, thank you again for your reply. It is very informitive. I appreciate your helping me iwith this. I will probably rent the gauge, and reamer. Unless they are not too expensive, in witch case I will buy them to have for futere use. I am chambering for a 30-06 Springfield. The crown I will probably use will be a straight 90 .05 deep. (I just like the look of the 90 over the 11 deg.) The bbl contour is what I am not sure about. The bbl. is 1.200 dia.(big huh?) I want a bull bbl., but not that big. I plan to either cut 4 -6 straight flutes,
    or (my preference) spiral flute the bbl. with a twist of 1/20, or somewhere close to that. I just need to find a shop with a rotary 4th on their cnc. I do not have one yet. They are a little out of my price range for the moment, given the economy. When you say "spider" I assume you mean a way of supporting the bbl. on the back side of my headstock. I was thinking of an attached collar on the end of the spindle tube, with 4 clamp points @ 90. Just like a steady rest, but on the back. Thank you again for your help.
    Best Regards,
    Doug.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    /

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Doug
    Here is what I have done so far with my Sav 111's and 12's. They are the "new" type and don't have a recessed "safety" barrel.

    I measure the thread length inside the nut, the thickness of the recoil lug I will use for that receiver, the depth of the bolt face and the depth from the receiver ring face to the bottom of the bolt face. I also measure the thread length on the original barrel. Most A&B barrels and original Savage barrels run 1.565" +/- a bit. That leaves about 0.250" gap if you run the nut all the way up the barrel untill it stops then install the lug, receiver with bolt, guage and screw it on the barrel until it the receiver stops and measure the gap. Basically a 1.315" thread length will work with the factory recoil lug but not with the aftermarket lugs, hence all the previous measurements.

    I use Sharp Shooters Supply recoil lugs which are thicker than original and Tubbs which are for Remington actions at 0.369" thick, Holland has some, check Brownells and online, you can get lugs up to 0.500"thick and all are ground with parallel faces.

    After all the measuring adding and subtracting I ended up with 1.450" as an all around uniform thread length. It covers all the lug thicknesses I've used so far and leaves a bit extra to play with. Or just thread to 1.560" and be done with it.

    The 0.473" bolt face is recessed 0.145" and I add 0.005" or so for relief so I chamber for a 0.150" "stickout". I cut until my headspace gauge is protruding 0.150" and call it good. You just don't want the bolt to touch the barrel or much over 0.008" gap.

    I also measure then face the receiver ring. Just clean it to 0.001" over what the runout is and I use a mandrel to hold the receiver. Not sure if it is needed because the receiver usually is close enough and I dial in on the threads anyhow, but check the bolt tunnel to the threads to be sure. I don't bother with single pointing the threads on Savages because they are close enough for everything except BR and I don't think anyone uses Savage for BR work anyhow. I know, lots of arguments. Do it however you like to.

    Then just chamber. I have a GTR reamer holder and the video from Shawnie and GTR. Great tool and well worth the money. Lots of other ways to chamber and millions of barrels have been chambered with a threading handle in the tailstock and they set records also. Just use a lot of good reaming fluids. Do-Drill works great and look into the flood system that GTR and Shawnie sells. I just got a BTS, but haven't gotten all the system up and running yet. Supposedly you can chamber at 300 rpm with this system with almost one pass. I will try it some day just for thehellofit.

    I turn the barrels down to 1.065 - 1.070" which is the ID of the barrel nut and clean up the inside of the barrel nut up to the threading, and the threading portion to 1.055".

    Lots of pros and cons concerning turning down a barrel. Shilen says it doesn't cause a problem and any barrel mfg that stress relieves concures, but unrelieved barrels are prone to warping...so I've read. I have turned several Shilen to Savage spects with nary a problem with targets, varmnts or larger game, but I would leave that big barrel alone and order a new barrel turned and tapered to Savage chamber dimensions and keep the other barrel to stuff on a Rem700 or sell/trade it.

    As far a stripping down the action, once you have a barrel wrench, HS gauges and a way to hold the barrel and receiver, it is a 10 minute job to swap things around. I take off the stock, scope (Weaver rings and mounts), the barrel goes into an aluminum bushing tapered to fit the barrel, then into the barrel vice, off comes the receiver. The new barrel with a fitted bushing, barrel nut, lug and HS gauge goes into the vice, on goes the receiver, gently. When it stops I hold the receiver with a big cresent wrench over the front sight base and tighten the barrel nut. I am making a "wrench" that goes down the bolt ways with a 1" nut on the end then I can use a torque wrench to tighten to about 70 ft lbs. You can buy one for Rems from Hollands I think that will work.

    The stock and sight go on and it is within 6" at 100 yards depending on the barrel, which scope and how I tightened the barrel and how close I got the witness marks. Close enough for a two shot sight in. My 17 Rem and 223 are inside one inch and I have swapped them in the back of the PU on my bench and left the sight alone when one needs cleaning.

    Savage is a very nice system to work with.

    My smaller calibers stay way under 1/2" with factory stuff and I won't say how small with my reloads because the groups still scare me. I can't believe them much less anyone else. I keep getting accused of one shot groups.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Doug, a "spider" is just like you said. I have a collar that attaches to the back of my spindle bore and has 4 contact points at 90 degs. I dial in on both ends. Reamers usually cost about $100-$150 to buy and $20 - $25 to rent. Guages run about $20 each to buy and about $5 to rent. As far as the taper goes, you just need to look at what kind of weight you want to carry. I usually turn down to about a #6 for varmint bull barrels.

    Greenwillypeter, I am not calling you a hack or anything, I'm sure you have had success with your techniques, but, I do have a few problems with your methods. First off I never "ballpark it" or "call it good" when I am working on a firearm. All actions are different and require individual measurement and fitting. I have never seen a factory action that was perfectly square. Cutting corners when working on firearms is very dangerous and is why so many gunsmiths get sued for liability when shit happens. Now believe me, there is no gun out there that can't be blown up by the idiots that use them. As a gunsmith I can't afford to cut corners and assume that kind of liability. Trial lawyers eat gunsmiths alive!

    Chad

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Chad.

    If you don't want to call me a hack, then don't.

    Your are correct that lawyers have big appetites and need to be fed. This is a machinest forum and I took a few liberties with my phrasing. When I say "it's good enough" I would assume you would be within you and your equipment capabilities and the tolerance fits the bill. A BR barrel gets a bit more than a plain-Jane, knock around, hang-on-the-gunrack-in-the-window-of-the-PU rifle. I don't get anal about it. All my 'irons are for ME. I don't sell to anyone, nor do I fix someone else's, nor do I claim to be a gunsmith of any sort, but I've been doing gunsmithing for 40 odd years, everything except the metal work, I just started that. All my guns shoot. I won't have one that doesn't. I will find the problem and fix it.

    I got tired of "gunsmiths" screwing up barrel work so I started doing it myself. So far it's two Rugers M77's, one XP-100, three Rem 700's, a 12(17 Rem, 223) and 111 Savage (30-06 and 416 Taylor) and I'm looking at adding a 6mm or 6.5mm on a WSM case. This is not a lot of work but I did take something that was mediocre and turned it into something that shoots well below 1/2 moa with just a little help here and there.

    I use a spider outboard on the spindle, centers, a mandrel or arbor as the case may be, and dial in to at least 0.0005" and less where I can get it, a spider in the steady, jigs to hold the bolt. I copied most of the tooling from catalogs, on line pictures and descriptions from forums and I make whatever needs to be made to get whatever job I have in mind done. I have a tool post grinder idea I'm working on for dealing with slabsided Rugers. Don't know how it will work, but I will learn something new.

    The information you passed on was good information, I didn't see anything I wouldn't do, I just do it a little different. I won't comment on whether or not I think you are a hack or a master machinist. But...what you did to your schoolmate puts you in that untrustworthy catagory with me. No matter how good a person is or thinks they are as soon as they start deliberately jerking people around their veracity becomes questionable. I spent a lot of years dealing with people and the after effects of what jokers thought was funny that went wrong. The embalming room in a funeral parlor isn't the best place to spend quality time.

    One thing to think about when setting up your spiders is not to put a bow in the barrel between the 4 jaw and the spider. Don't ask me how I did it because I'm not sure. I had both ends dialed in on a stubby barrel that stuck out about 2" on the spider and 1/2" on the 4 jaw. I used 2" pins to dial on. I worked on it until the wiggler wasn't wiggling on each end then looked down the barrel while it was turning slow and I could see the circle was moving in a cirle down inside the spindle. I released the jaw and the spider and reset it again and it ran true. Maybe I tightened the jaw too tight before I started on the spider. Something I need to look at close in the process.

    Doug; I'm interested in knowing how your project comes out. I talked to Lilja, PacNor and Lothar Walther about turning/grinding their barrels to Savage specs. Lilja and PacNor will do it for no additional cost, and I'm waiting for LW to reply. It would definitely take some of the work out of the equation

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    3,242
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1818
    Likes (Received)
    800

    Default

    Guys, thanks for the info. I need a few hrs. to digest all the advice. Some I can visualise, some I will have to work thru. My first step is to get the videos, then the reamer, and then make a spider. Once i get paid on a few items (I hate net 30!!!) I plan to buy what I need. Again, I appreciate all the help. I am sure that I will have more questions, as I get in to it. I hope you will be patient with my novice rifle questions. What little knowledge I have centers around 1911's.
    Thanks again. Doug

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Doug...I was waxing so eloquent I forgot to give you "THE MAN" when it comes to Savages. Fred Moreo, SHARP SHOOTERS SUPPLY, Savage Specialties, 419-695-3179, 4970 Lehman Rd., Delphos, Oh. 45833, email - [email protected].

    Call or email for ANY information you need and get his product pamphlet. He has tools, parts, barrels, stocks and knowledge. I have an order in for another lug, bolt handle and Farrell scope base. I just acquired another SA rifle. Those additions are the beginning of the accurizing process on all my Savages. He also will face the receiver, barrel nut and bolt head faces which are all recommended processes, and the price will astound you compared to what 'smiths charge for basically the same thing on other round receiver rifles. Enjoy your toy.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    'Peter, I wasn't trying to be rude, I was just emphasizing the importance of being precise. Doug has never done this before, while obviously you and I can do it in our sleep. I haven't been doing this kind of work anywhere near 40 years and am far from being a master machinist, which is why I like this site. I do 90% of my work for the public, so I always have to watch my ass. I can pretty well spot the trouble customers the second they walk in.

    Don't feel bad for the fellow student I was picking on. This guy was a sorry SOB and is now one of the nations leading hacks. I'll tell you what he did to me. In school our first rebarelling project was a Mauser that we sporterized. I was all new to this and worked for hours to dial in my bbl to start my chambering process. While I was at lunch this guy went over to my lathe and offset my tailstock! Needless to say my chamber was extremely oversized. I didn't figure out that it was him until I was contouring my bbl and we got back early from lunch and I caught him at my lathe with his wrenches. I measured my tailstock offset, and he had done it again. He later flunked out of school and now works on firearms in his garage. To date he has had 16 blowups or jamups, to which he always blames the shooters reloaded ammo. Don't feel sorry for this guy!

    Anyway, back on subject. You brought up a point I forgot to mention. I bent a customers bbl the first time I used a spider. I now put small brass rounds between the jaw and bbl for contact points. This seems to work as I haven't bent any bbls lately.

    Chad

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Chad. I apologize for a hasty judgement before knowing the full story. There is always several sides to any problem, you should have given more detail. You should have BBQ'ed his hands and fed them to your dog.

    The brass rounds sounds like a good idea. I'v used brass and copper shims and split aluminum bushings turned on centers then bored to the OD of the barrel I'm working on with a 0.002" taper, snugs up real nice doesn't slip, but more work than a job shop needs to put in for most jobs, I would think. My 3 jaw has 0.0002" runout between 1.000" and 1.300" and the live center runs at 0.0003" so I use it more than the 4 jaw. I know, using a 3 jaw is a no-no for barrel work, but there is more slop in the threads than that and it's real hard to measure down that close anyhow. Thermal expansion and all that good stuff.

    I dial in off a pin in the muzzle bore then turn 1" or more depending on if a muzzle brake goes on, swap ends, pin and indicate, then turn the shank to major dia., all on centers and as close to no runout as I can get that day and depending on the caliber and my use. I also have a long stemmed 10th indicator that I can get 2" deep to check things out. Sometimes I thread then chamber, sometimes the other way around and I even just thread and put the barrel away for future thoughts. Not having to make a living allows me to test and experiment, try other methods, just plain screw up or make a discovery without taking food off the table.

    As in any endeavor, you have to keep an open mind and not go into lockstep. Tried and true are very good...up to a point, you can't knock success, but not questioning the status quo would leave us wanting. Where would CNC, NC, 4 and 5 axis control have come from if many someones hadn't challanged the status quo and made the step into the darkness. My advice is always question. You don't have to get hostile or defensive even though that is usually the result. Wish I would take my own advice sometimes. Being somewhat iconoclastic and idiosyncratic not to mention individualistic and a bit of a hermit has it's compensations...and it's debits.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Damn I wish my three jaw was that tight, mine sucks, and the 4 jaw that came with my lathe was even worse. I sold my old enco gearhead, I must have been 200 yrs old, it looked it anyway. It got so sloppy I couldn't chamber a bbl without it chattering. The gear noise was getting unbearable. Anyway, I ended up getting a new Grizzly 13X37 belt drive. I am really satisfied with it except the tooling that came with it, their chucks are cheap and out of round, my drive plate was so unbalanced it shook the machine. The lathe dogs that I got with it wouldn't even reach the slots in the drive plate. I had rebarelling jobs waiting and I couldn't do without a lathe any longer, so I just ordered the Grizzly, I got it in 3 days. I have been thinking about getting me one of the high precision 6 jaws. Other gunsmiths have told me that they put a 6 jaw on thier machine and will never take it off. I kept my 4 jaw that I had or I couldn't even do bbl work. I hope to eventually find a good South Bend 13X40 belt drive, thats what we used in school and they are excellent machines.

    I would love to have the time to experiment with rifles and not have to work for others. Most never want the job done right. They always want the job done cheap. I do have a lot of really good regular customers who make this job really enjoyable. As they usually want a better looking, more accurate, and more expensive rifle than their golfing buddies. Gunsmithing also works out real well with my farming, as during the summer when 'smithing slows down, farming picks up.

    Chad

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Montrose Iowa
    Posts
    1,180
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    AH HA, another farmer gunsmith, new there was something about your posts. Just got a Bison 6 jaw set true, not sure I like it yet, but have not used it too much, more time will tell, darn thing will slip unless you realy crank it tight.

    [This message has been edited by Kurt Westfall (edited 05-13-2003).]

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I spent almost a year looking, asking, sifting through the stuff you get on your boots when walking through the animal pens. I finally bought a Grizzly G4003 GH. I like it fine, but I spent 2 weeks working through the all the little things people suggested to check and adjust. It has a camlock to hold chucks and I spent a day apiece to get all the chucks squared away. I had to turn the face plate face, outside edge and bore to get it dialed in. I just kept taking the chucks out, turning, screwing with the cam pins by swapping them around, until I had all the runout, run out. 3 factoral 3 or 3 raised to the 3rd power, 27 times minimum, or something like that, then I setup a tool post grinder with a 1" stone, cranked up the speed and just lightly touched inside of the jaws to get all the burrs and dingleberrys.

    I center punched marks on the jaws, face plate, 5MT adapter and 3MT center and on the camlock, plus scribed a line on all the pieces including the tail stock for reference. So far, as long as I keep those lines lined up and put the chucks and face plate in the same way each time, it only takes a bit of jiggling or a tap with a rubber mallet to keep inside that magic number. I messed with the jaws also, swapping them around, they weren't marked nor was the groove, but they are now. Everything I turn in the three jaw gets indicated in as close as it will go by tightening all three jaw screws just like I would with a 4 jaw, then I mark it for #1 jaw. As long as I replace it as close to the same point as I can get it, it will be very close in register. This is the 3jaw that came with the Grizzly.

    I am very careful how tight I clamp material. I can hold a 1.250" polished round thing without marring it as long as it doesn't spin. Hence the reason for my light cuts. Just a piece of clear tape is all thats needed. So far every new barrel is just set up on centers while I turn the muzzle, no dogs or other holding/turning device on the barrel. Friction alone will turn it as long as the cuts are light. But, only for 0.600" to 0.800" on a tapered barrel and almost to one full inch on a straight tube, then cutting friction overcomes the friction of the centers. I put the turned end in the three jaw then check it. It is, again, not advisable when you either eat beans or eat the barrel.

    I thought about a 6 jaw and it was top of the list to buy. It has a whole bunch of desirable traits and I may just get one, but right now I'm trying to get a mill set up so it will have to wait.

    I just bought another LA and SA with the Accu-trigger. That is one nice trigger. I though Timney was nice, after I stroked it, but the Accu beats it hands down. Damn, I like Savages but hate going to town. Today was the last day on sale and $250 for a LA is hard to turn down even for a 3 hour plus drive.

    Kurt; Tell me more about this 6 jaw slipping. What was you turning, feed, speed, cut and all the other good stuff. Thanks.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Montrose Iowa
    Posts
    1,180
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    I broke the nut on the back of a Hy clinder ram, so decided to tap it, held in the 6 jaw and steady, faced, center driled, and predriled with a .500 bit. It did not spin out just pushed straight back in the chuck. RPM were 200 feed? driled with tailstock, could have just been the ram's crome plateing that caused it. I went through the same thing as you when setting it up, but no grinding of the jaws. I can get better runout if I don't tighten it so hard, .0002 TIR, but then it don,t like to hold, I can get better runout with a 4 jaw, .0001 and sometimes less. If it ever stops raining, and the crops get in I'll have to play some more.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    OUCH, chrome plated, hard and slick. It's characteristics we all learn to love and hate make it a pain to hold. When I was worth something, I worked at a crane shop that handled hydrocranes. Some of the rods were 4"-8" dia. and 10'-24' long. We took them to a shop specializing in cylinders. The guy was a genius and artist at the same time. I took rods that were so bent and broken I though they were beyound repair and he would straighten, reweld ends, polish and re-chrome. It took you a week to walk the length of his lathe and the spindle would gobble up everything I took into him. He used some kind of collet system to hold the rods and they were supported on a minimum of one roller steady. He also used some kind of plastic? nylon? softening material in the chuck. His setup looked like a porky-pine there were so many indicators sticking out all over. I was interested in other things and didn't look real close or ask many questions. Wish I had now.

    You're definitely right about how hard you squeeze. On the 4 jaw, once I get to around 0.001", I start getting real gentle with the tightening and watch the jaws at 90°. Something that is supposed to be round ain't necessarily so when you're down that small.

    I think a 6 jaw would hold a receiver better than a 4 jaw at least as far as distributing the clamping pressure over a larger area. Less pressure per point and less distortion, and they are on sale at ENCO right now.

    My dad gave me a wiggler from his wartime days that has a 0.0005" range. When I get too smar-tass and smug, all I have to do is set that up to check the size of my hat band. It goes from 10 gallon to 7 1/2 real fast, about the time it takes you to get out of the pen when the bulls are turned loose. But... :^D, I have two barrels waiting for chambers that only vibrate the pointer, both ends of the barrels OD, on centers. I am really looking forward to finishing them and getting on paper.

    I've been in holding mode for the last week or so and plugged into the 'net, but that is about to stop. The LBT (Little Brown Truck) is bringing me the last shipment of toys today, the weather is clearing, the squirrels are out and I finished scoping the new SAV12 last night. One flat to fix and I'm heading out to my range to sight in. I'll be back when the mill comes in for MO'HEP. I know even less about milling than my meager knowledge of turning.

    GreenWillyPeter at your service.

    Hey, ENJOY the sunshine, be good to yourselves and your families, be less critical of others and be safe. Remember...Life is fleeting, only waste a little, but be thankful for the waste, it is given to you for a reason.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •