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Mauser barrel threads

stevestanfill

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Location
west tennessee
What is the barrel thread on a Turkish Mauser. I know some have small shanks and different threads and some times a edge around the front of the receiver. Can any one tell me the shank and thread of the small shank. Are Turkish Mausers with the small thread barrels up to a high pressure round? Thanks,
 
Sealark37 is correct for Model 38 Turkish mausers marked on the receiver ring with: "K. KALE". These receivers were probably made in Turkey and should be .980". But note that some other Turkish guns in the Model 38 configuration were made from salvaged large ring, large thread actions from other sources. The threads for these actions are probably 1.100". The large thread thread receivers probably have the first thread cut out of the face in order for the handguard retainer ring to be machined into the face of the receiver. If your action is one of these altered large thread actions, it would be wise to rebarrel in something closer to 8x57mm pressures. You need 3 complete threads minimum for any rebarrel of these large thread actions. More is better.

If the Model 38 receiver does not have: "K. KALE" above the year of manufacture on its crest, it is probably a large thread 98. The use of the word "probably" is because of the Turks' variety of sources for parts. However, every "K. KALE" marked receiver I have rebarreled had .980" threads. They are probably one of the least uniform builders of military rifles.
 
threads

Best method is to measure the minor and major thread dimensions on the receiver itself and machine accordingly...in my experiences I've found many variations.
 
Military mausers, FN, and Mark X are 12 TPI 55 degrees but 60 degrees will work just fine. Some commercial mauser clones may not be 12 TPI
 
threads

We ARE talking machining here...so, in my opinion, if you are cutting the barrel threads to a certain receiver there isn't any reason to not match the receiver's dimensions. If not exact, as close as possible for a custom fit.
 
If you use a HSS tool, that is an easy grind to 55.

Used to grind my own threading tools. Used a tumble fixture on the surface grinder that an old T&D maker showed me, after I learned to do it offhand.

One gets spoiled with inserts. But with a lot of custom threads in tough material, inserts work.
 
Turkish Mausers

For an indepth examination of the whole gamut of "Turkish" mausers (original and rebuilds and newbuilds) go to Parallax's Curio and Relic Gunboards on Yukos.

Basically: Turkish Mausers go in several groups. All the "German made Turkish Contract" Mausers ( M90,M93, M1903, ) are Small Shank barrels (.980 approx., 12tpi, Whitworth Form (55 degrees): originally in 7,65 Turkish Mauser (7,65x53) they were nearly all converted in 1930-1945 to 7,9mm Mauser cartridge.
These early contract rifles were all "intermediate" action lengths, and the 1903 was a direct copy of the Gew98, but with a shorter Bolt (intermediate size)

The WWI donation rifles from Germany ( Gew88/05, Gew 98 and Kar98a) all originally in 7,9mm, have (M88/05) a .980 Barrel, the Gew98/Kar98a has a 1.010 barrel shank (Large Shank), but both 12 TPI/55degree...The early 1920s Czech Vz98/22 is identical to the Gew98.

In 1938, Turkey erected a fully equipped New Factory at Kirikkale, outside Ankara, with ZB (Brno) Technical assistance and machinery. They decided their New Mauser Rifle, in 7,9mm would be a combination of early Turkish Mauser features, with included Gew98 improvements, on a common M1903 Woodwork and Furnishings.
The distinguishing features were Gew98 Bolt lenght ( so interchangeable with German WW I G98s and the Czech 98.22), large ring receiver, but small shank barrel thread ( so barrels essentially fittable to all the small shank receivers already in existance) and the stockwork the same as the M1903 type ( same bayonet fittings)...only hand fitting of wood to metal required.
Kirikkale ("K'Kale" marking) receivers were made 1939/40 to 1946, in Long Rifle form, and 1944-46 in short rifles form. Approx. 250,000 long models were made, along with about 15,000 short rifle models. (See DocAV Serial Survey, Parallax Turkish board)

Barrel threading: Since there is Factory Tolerance between the different types of Actions of up to 5 thou. of an inch either way on diameter, one should measure the Receiver, and then cut the Barrel shank accordingly.
Also, the depth of thread into the receiver varies with different types ( ie, the Position of the "shoulder" separating thread from Re-inforce of shank.)

Cut a 55 degree thread...using US 60 degree is a cop-out, also because the thread form is totally different. Most Thread gauges have both 55 and 60 tool angle gauges built in, so if needed, one can grind one's own tips (HSS)...I have a Threading cutter tool holder which takes continuous 55 and 60degree adjustable cutters ( grind off top to get sharp edges.)

Range of calibres usable: For pre-1914 Contract rifles: medium ( 40-45,000
psi cartridges up to 7,9 Mauser in the 1903 model.The earlier receivers are 110 plus years old, and should be treated with due deference.

WWI Mausers: these are G/Kar 98 actions, and suitable for most up to 48,000
psi cartridges, but NOT those which require extensive action work; same for the Vz98/22 action.

Kikkale actions: as for Gew98 size actions, no cartridges beyond 48,000 psi normal working pressure. But no overlong cases which require action remodelling.

Remember, these rifles are at least 64 years old ( 1946 K'kale) or up to 110 years old ( M90 or M88/05/35) and with structural issues as well (small ring receivers, no third safety lug as in Gew98, etc.

Handle with care.

Better still, a good Kirikkale ( clear bore, slick action, good stocking up) can be as accurate as any spruced up Springfield or Lee-Enfield.

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
 
DocAV:
Kikkale actions: as for Gew98 size actions, no cartridges beyond 48,000 psi normal working pressure.

Doc, I have more than 50 Turkish Mausers, have been re barreling them for 10 years.

I make a hobby out of overloading hundreds of types of guns to see what happens, and documenting the results.

The Turkish Mausers, 1903 and K.Kale, are as strong as anything one can buy new in a sporting goods store today.

The 1889 7.65x53mm Mauser case head when built with a large Boxer primer can be registered for as much as 65kpsi [270 and 6mmRem], can get long brass life at 70kpsi, and suffer single firing loose primers at 75kpsi.

The 1889 7.65x53mm Mauser case head when built with small Boxer primer can be loaded until the primer pierces and the brass will still have long life. This is typically over 80kpsi.

Here is a pic of some brass I fired in a K.Kale 10 years ago, and that rifle is still fine.
 

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Ok- here is my question. I have a 1940 dated K.Kale Turk. I have read that I can take a large shank barrel, turn it down and thread it to small shank dimensions. Instead, can I bore the receiver and thread to large shank dimensions?
 
Ok- here is my question. I have a 1940 dated K.Kale Turk. I have read that I can take a large shank barrel, turn it down and thread it to small shank dimensions. Instead, can I bore the receiver and thread to large shank dimensions?

Don't touch the receiver except to square it...it is much easier to turn a barrel than it is to change the threads on a receiver.
 
Always modify the cheaper part first. A barrel also is not serial numbered, so it can be replaced easier than a reciever. External threads are also easier to turn for most people.
 
I used to true up Mausers actions, but have given up.
Those fixtures I made gather dust.

1903TurkBoltsaftercleaningmidhandleweld.jpg

There are just too many Turkish Mausers to work on, and they shoot too well without truing.
 








 
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