Need welding tips for Rem 700 recoil lug - Page 2
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    Guys, if you don’t have info on welding a lug onto an action, please refrain. I will make another thread called “Why welding an action is bad”

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    If you are going to change barrels while the action is in the stock, dont bother welding, pinning or soldering the lug. Just don't put any release agent on the lug when you bed the stock, make the lug a permanent part of the stock. You can still remove the action and barrel if it is done properly. MIGHT work just fine and if not you can remove the lug with a little heat.

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    Or a mallet.

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    If you are still intending to tack weld the lug to the receiver, I would do it at 3 and 9 o'clock only. With the breech locked, the bolt lugs are at 12 and 6 o'clock; no reason to get any heat in those areas.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGaskill View Post
    If you are still intending to tack weld the lug to the receiver, I would do it at 3 and 9 o'clock only. With the breech locked, the bolt lugs are at 12 and 6 o'clock; no reason to get any heat in those areas.
    Interesting point. I was thinking 12 and 6 based on cosmetics. I’m still not seeing any degradation based on tack welds. More study is obviously needed. Thanks

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    "Desire to do something does NOT make up for a lack of proper equipment, knowledge and or experience."

    I hereby nominate this for overall PM statement of the month. (with the possible addendum of
    'unless you are prepared to destroy the thing you started with, and then build a new one
    from scratch and then do it right the second time aka learning the hard way. Which is
    time consuming but you sure learn a lot)

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    Jim,
    Anyone that says it is a bad idea, simply lacks the knowledge to do it. This isn’t the first time a lug has been welded to an action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Picture a glue in benchrest style of action where you simply turn barrels on and off hand tight. Don’t laugh or fret before you see one. There was a guy down in Utah doing long range shooting that had one. I thought it was a bad idea at first, but he proved me wrong. Both barrels shot very well at 1k+ and all he did was twist them on and off by hand.


    I'll laugh. Do a little research on barrel tightening. You might start with Harold Vaughn's Rifle Accuracy Facts. Yes, I have and have been through several glued in BR rifles through the years.

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    I’m still not seeing any degradation based on tack welds.

    The problem will be that the welds will be very hard and brittle because they will be rapidly cooled by the large mass of surrounding metal. I doubt the receiver would be compromised by two small tack welds at 3 and 9 o'clock; whether the welds will be sound enough to resist the slight flexing with every shot without cracking remains to be seen.

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    I wouldn't be surprised if they're cracked by the time it cools off.

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    Butch,
    It worked. Saw it myself. 7saum. What is your argument? I like to tighten my barrels with the action wrench about ten times, off and on before final assembly to mate threads and shoulder to action. Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Jim,
    Anyone that says it is a bad idea, simply lacks the knowledge to do it. This isn’t the first time a lug has been welded to an action.
    I didn't say it was a bad idea - I don't enough knowledge to evaluate the concept. Just saying I liked the statement above
    and I will stand by that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Butch,
    It worked. Saw it myself. 7saum. What is your argument? I like to tighten my barrels with the action wrench about ten times, off and on before final assembly to mate threads and shoulder to action. Thoughts?


    You didn't say if you read Harold Vaughn's book or the part on barrel tightening torque. A 700 is 4140 at about 38RC. If you tig a recoil lug to the front receiver ring, what does that do to the front ring? Sir, you have a thread on another forum seeking somebody to pat you on the butt. I don't think you are getting the response that you wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Jim,
    Anyone that says it is a bad idea, simply lacks the knowledge to do it. This isn’t the first time a lug has been welded to an action.
    Simply because something has been done before, doesn't necessarily make it other than a bad idea. Quite apart from changing the heat treatment in the heat affected zone, as the expansion of the plastic and molten metal has nowhere to go, being surrounded by the unyielding cold material, results in the grain structure in the Weld Zone compacting and shrinkage when cool, which equates to distortion. Accordingly, pre and post heating would be required and this will definitely affect the heat treatment.

    This shrinkage effect is easily demonstrated by clamping a short piece of steel bar length-ways in a vice and heating a narrow band in the centre to a bright cherry red. After heating, have a cup of coffee and by the time you have finished, the short length of steel will be on the floor.

    You seem to be the only one not in the choir Butch Lambert is preaching to.

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    How large of an area would a spot weld at 3 and 9 effect?
    Is it possible to true the face of th lug once attached?
    Have you welded a lug to an action before?

    I know the answers and they are obvious. If you haven’t welded a lug to an action, thus lacking the experience I am asking for, please refrain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    You didn't say if you read Harold Vaughn's book or the part on barrel tightening torque. A 700 is 4140 at about 38RC. If you tig a recoil lug to the front receiver ring, what does that do to the front ring? Sir, you have a thread on another forum seeking somebody to pat you on the butt. I don't think you are getting the response that you wanted.
    Stop being a dork, Butch. I haven’t read your book. Unless it re-writes what metals do when tig welded, then I think I’ll be fine. Since very few gunsmiths agree on torque (40-200lbs), again, I will be fine. Hand tight have worked in the past at competitions .... and will still work.

    I am not the one needing a “pat on the butt”...

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    I've never heard any significant gunsmith approve of welding any receiver in the critical barrel thread / bolt lug buttress area.

    I think you should try it and post the results!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quick Karl View Post
    I've never heard any significant gunsmith approve of welding any receiver in the critical barrel thread / bolt lug buttress area.

    I think you should try it and post the results!
    What’s your definition of a “significant gunsmith”?
    Do you build rifles or do tig welding?
    Do you consider the area over 1/2” away from the abatements (receiver face) critical?
    Do you think some spot welds on the receiver face would have significant effects on the threads or abatements?

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    I don't have much of an issue with welding it, but using MIG would be what my Grandfather refered to as 'schlacke werk'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Stop being a dork, Butch. I haven’t read your book. Unless it re-writes what metals do when tig welded, then I think I’ll be fine. Since very few gunsmiths agree on torque (40-200lbs), again, I will be fine. Hand tight have worked in the past at competitions .... and will still work.

    I am not the one needing a “pat on the butt”...
    Mram10,

    Actually, I don't think I have ever heard a gunsmith who's built a winning gun suggest a torque UNDER 100Ft-Lb. And I am DAMN SURE that hand tight is an accident waiting to happen. A barrel backing off only a few thou. could have SERIOUS consequences... "Hand tight" is reckless and irresponsible!

    As far as welding on a receiver is concerned. I have taken some heat in the past, and probably will again, on this topic... I PERSONALLY would never recommend welding on a receiver. As angelw CORRECTLY pointed out, welding on 4140 requires pre AND post heat. I defy you to find a single metallurgical reference that does not state this. That WILL alter the heat treat, there is NO WAY to avoid it. Of course recommendations are ignored every day. That does not make it standard operating procedure!

    Lastly... I would highly recommend that you DO read the reference Butch mentioned. At LEAST chapter 6! NO... You won't learn anything at all about TIG welding. However, you SHOULD learn a LOT about threads and preload as it relates to rifle barrels.


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