Original Winchester Model 1895 help?

Avrgjoe · Oct 13, 2012

Before I get fussed at too much I know this is not really a "gun smithing question". I have had way better luck posting questions and getting answers on PM alot more than any other forum, so, here goes.

I have recently acquireded an original Winchester Model 1895 .30-40 Krag Manufactured August, 23 1898. I have been scouring other forums and the web for info, lots found except for this. I am wanting to strip, clean and lube the gun good before firing. The gun is in very good condition considering its 114 year age and seems to be in good working order. Just for my own info. and piece of mind though I would like to know more about the inner workings and condition first hand. I am looking for some help on disassembly of the rifle before I, lord forbid screw it up, after all its been OK for all these years....

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer,
Joe

kenh · Oct 13, 2012

http://www.rarewinchesters.com/images/Exploded%20Views/1895%20Disassembly-Reassembly.shtml

Avrgjoe · Oct 13, 2012

Kenh,
I saw thisand I read it but there is quite a bit of info missing here. All the parts #s they reference... where is the diagram showing the parts and corresponding #s? the reason I am so particular on this is I have already read that on the 3 screws under the lever its self there is only one that needs to be removed in order to remove the stock. If the others are removed then they can have a profound effect on the hammer spring tension. Don't really want to go there.... thank you for the reference none the less

Co2 mech · Oct 13, 2012

Find yourself a good gunsmith and have him check it out. 114 years is a long time to pick up a hidden flaw. i have an 1870 Allen trap door conversion in 50/70 that I would dearly love to shoot, going to get it checked one of these days. safety pays.

Regards

maynah · Oct 13, 2012

Here's a drawing. The screw at the rear of the tang is the only one you need to take out to remove butt stock. Make sure your screw driver fits each screw perfectly. If you don't have a large selection of different size bits, don't try it. Also a little penetrating oil on each won't hurt. Old dried oil and dirt really glues everything together.

speerchucker30x3 · Oct 13, 2012

A lot of people say the internet has been the biggest aid to gunsmiths to come along in the last 20 years. Not so. If anything, I think I have seen more guns ruined because of it than repaired.

The single biggest aid are those fool, digital cameras. I have one set up all the time on a tripod by my bench. Every time I expose something new on an unfamiliar gun (and there are 40 or so new ones every year) I snap a close up picture. I take from 4 to 15 pics per gun as I take them apart. It wastes about 5 minutes but it saves me a lot of grief. If the gun won't go back together from memory, I just plug the camera into the putor and look back at where things are supposed to be as it came apart and it tends to go right back together. I have a 32 gig card in it so once every 6 months I just wipe it clean and start over. They have pulled my ass out of the fire 4 or 5 times a year for the last 20 years.

Avrgjoe · Oct 13, 2012

maynah said:
Here's a drawing. The screw at the rear of the tang is the only one you need to take out to remove butt stock. Make sure your screw driver fits each screw perfectly. If you don't have a large selection of different size bits, don't try it. Also a little penetrating oil on each won't hurt. Old dried oil and dirt really glues everything together.

I do appriciate your help, This diagram is more than I had but it still does not show the 3 screws under the lever into the stock of the gun.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gobigcorley/8035537005/

Avrgjoe · Oct 13, 2012

speerchucker30x3 said:
A lot of people say the internet has been the biggest aid to gunsmiths to come along in the last 20 years. Not so. If anything, I think I have seen more guns ruined because of it than repaired.

The single biggest aid are those fool, digital cameras. I have one set up all the time on a tripod by my bench. Every time I expose something new on an unfamiliar gun (and there are 40 or so new ones every year) I snap a close up picture. I take from 4 to 15 pics per gun as I take them apart. It wastes about 5 minutes but it saves me a lot of grief. If the gun won't go back together from memory, I just plug the camera into the putor and look back at where things are supposed to be as it came apart and it tends to go right back together. I have a 32 gig card in it so once every 6 months I just wipe it clean and start over. They have pulled my ass out of the fire 4 or 5 times a year for the last 20 years.

Thanks for the words of wisdom, Sounds like a very good idea. I have lots of pics of all of my guns including this one....just no pics of them dis asymbled.

Good stuff!!, Thanks,
Joe

maynah · Oct 14, 2012

I know the drawing is a little hard to read. The 3 screws don't go into the stock, they go into the lower tang. The screw closest to the trigger is the sear spring screw. Next is the main spring strain screw. Next, main spring screw. Use a magnifying glass to read the drawing better. If you're not comfortable taking the wood off to see how things work, you probably shouldn't. As you can see from the screw heads in your picture, someone who shouldn't have been in there, already has.

Avrgjoe · Oct 14, 2012

maynah said:
I know the drawing is a little hard to read. The 3 screws don't go into the stock, they go into the lower tang. The screw closest to the trigger is the sear spring screw. Next is the main spring strain screw. Next, main spring screw. Use a magnifying glass to read the drawing better. If you're not comfortable taking the wood off to see how things work, you probably shouldn't. As you can see from the screw heads in your picture, someone who shouldn't have been in there, already has.

Once again I really do appreciate your input, I have also been sent another picture that explains what I was concerned about in a much simpler illustration. Its not that I don't feel comfortable at all, I am just trying to be cautious and know a little before I start so I do feel more comfortable. As far as the screws being messed up, well there are several screws like that on the gun (before me by the way) Is there an ok way to file down the burs on the screws that would be cosmetically appealing and not diminish any value of the gun?

Once again I really do appreciate all of you guys help, I knew I would find some answers here on PM!
Joe

maynah · Oct 14, 2012

Everyone will have their own ideas on this, but I say yes, repair the screws. Buggered slots really change the way a gun looks.

Avrgjoe · Oct 14, 2012

maynah said:
Everyone will have their own ideas on this, but I say yes, repair the screws. Buggered slots really change the way a gun looks.

Any recommended method besides just carefully filing them down?

Gazz · Oct 14, 2012

I know replacement screw sets are available for other models of Winchester rifles. I too have an older 1895 in 30-03 caliber and it was missing the cover screw for the bolt removal pin. I ordered one for a 1892 Winchester and it worked just fine so I wonder if some (or many of) the screws may interchange between models. Screws can also be cleaned up a bit with a drill motor and a file and and assortment of abrasive papers. Chuck the screw gently in the chuck so as not to mash the threads and spin it while carefully filing the head paying attention to the crown of the head. Sometimes removing just a small amount of material makes the screw look unmessed with. Apply the abrasive papers (wrapped around a stick) to get the right surface finish and apply cold blue.
When I took my 1895 apart to inspect, I found the disassembly procedure to be a bit similar to the 1894 procedure - close enough that I could do the job with only a bit of head scratching and repeating of steps since I forgot to put this or that part in first. Granted, I have taken a few of these rifles (1886, 92,and 94) apart so I have a pretty good idea of what is going on.

Avrgjoe · Oct 15, 2012

FYIW, just an update. I did get it disassembled , cleaned , oiled & reassembled. no problems in the least, very cool old gun to shoot. Felt like I had a little piece of American history in my hands.

http://youtu.be/rBHiqMZ4M8o

kootne · Oct 15, 2012

Avrgjoe said:
Any recommended method besides just carefully filing them down?

make a little anvil by drilling a clearance diameter hole a little longer than the screw shank in a piece of steel. you want the head to be supported on the bottom. use a very small ball peen hammer with a smooth (not beat up) face. very lightly peen the metal back into place. often the slot will not have to be re-cut or the head re-polished. if they do it will be very minimal compared to what it takes if you skip the peening. the metal is still there, you just need to put it back in the right place.

kootne

JBCGUNS · Oct 16, 2012

Ditto with the camera idea. I've been in the gun trade for all of twelve months and everything is freaking new!
Taking pics at pivotal moments has prevented the overuse of some terrible language.

ahall · Oct 17, 2012

Dito on Kootne's advice to pean the metal back in place on a screw.
It works suprisingly well.
Smooth hammer faces improve the quality of the work and reduce the chances you will have to reblue the screw.
Use a light hammer and go slowly.

If the slot has to be re cut, a proper screw head file is the way to go.
Hack saw is for hacks.

As to screw interchangeability on Winchesters, many screws do swap over.
The "for collectors only" series of books mentions this in several places.
Other parts, like sights, were also recycled between models.

Gazz · Oct 17, 2012

Peening the screw head works well enough as long as the previous screwdriver operator did not tear the metal as it seems has been done in the OP's picture. Peening will not refill the areas where the metal has been torn away. If there is no screw slot file available, the abrasive cutoff discs like those sold by Dremel work pretty well as do jewelers saws. If I use a abrasive disc, I clean up the inside bottom corners with the jewelers saw.

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