OT Ice Ages

Ocean drilling shows that we've had about 20 or 30 Glaciations in the Quaternary (current geological period) I forget the exact figures.

Between the glaciations there have been periods with significantly warmer climate than present.

Evidence for the warmer climate includes fossil reddened sub tropical soils in eastern England, together with bones from African style megafauna, not only in lowland gravels (eg balderton terrace on river Trent) but also into the English Pennines. this includes such lovers of cold weather as Hippo!

We could argue for ever more about the techniques used to connect proxy data (tree rings, carbonates in sediments, oxygen isotope data in ice cores etc) with actual temperature measurements, and the lack of any attempts to go back and re sample tree rings etc to see how the two sets of measurements compare when we have both!

What is clear is that there are several cycles of climate change related to the orbit of the planet (Milankovic cycles), but there are also several other variables:

emmissions of volcanoes
patterns of ocean currents (el nino etc)
possibly solar variability.

It had been assumed that the sun was constant (how something as energetic as the sun could be assumed to be constant I don't know)

Solar variability could be in several forms:
variation in heat generation
variation in heat radiation
magnetic or charged particle output variability affecting cloud formation on earth and thus the ammount of heat coming in or radiating back out.

there has been suspicion about this last for some time, as during "the little ice age " ending about 1820 and including the winter of 1812 which virtually wiped out Napoleon's army retreating from Moscow... There were virtually no sun spots!

During the recent warming, we've had massive sunspots

Last year was globally much colder, wiping out about 100 years worth of "global warming", and guess what? virtually no sun spots!

last year's rapid change is not what you'd expect if CO2 were the main controlling factor. It does suggest that something else might have a much stronger control (and it isn't Al Gore, or CNN News).

Just to finish;
one of my workmates blames global warming for stealing his virginity

what do you blame it for?

Keith
(Geologist)

I'm almost certain rapidly cycling sunspots have caused variations in the sunlight shining on my front sight post and has resulted in lower scores.

Steve.

So thats the reasion And here I though I was just a bad shot

Sunspots?
nahh, 'twoz global warming made you do it

Last week on Dirty Jobs was great. The opening shot for the segment shows Mike trudging through 12" of snow during a blizzard and says "Hi. Today I've come to Kensington, Minnesota, on the first day of spring. With an important message about global warming". He then proceeds to laugh his ass off for 20 seconds. I had to rewind and watch it again!

Steve.

Relating facts like that is disruptive and not politically correct. The all knowing (some of whom started shaving recently) have told you all you need to know on TV.

Alpacca Fortyfive said:

Just to finish;
one of my workmates blames global warming for stealing his virginity

Click to expand...

Hi Keith,

Sounds like "local" warming to me.

- Leigh

I think that Al Gore should be teaching Nigerians how to run better scams! He has made millions with this Global Warming Scam. To bad this scam is running this country into the ground and causeing $4.00++++++ a gallon gas. Gary P. Hansen

possibly solar variability

Click to expand...

Imagine THAT! Yeah, like we can predict what that thermonuclear fireball will do from one minute to the next..........
This past winter was the coldest in 100 years in China, and our local ski area had its sixth best season in 70 years.
I blame it on the fact that I bought a new Mustang last summer. I had to leave it parked in my garage for 2-1/2 months due to snow and a mud-bog for a driveway.
(not complaining)

There are SO MANY factors that change the climate.

Global warming is a scam, that said, I DO beleive in minimizing envirmental impact WHERE IT MAKES SENSE! This enviroMENTALism has gone to extremes though. It IS ruining the country.

I watched a thing on the earth's poles changing, along with changes in the orbit, and how it affects EVERYTHING to do with the climate. They had research on how the climate had changed in the past, how it was affected by volcanic activity, and the polar ice caps WERE smaller at one time. Then you have ocean currents, and trade winds. This planet is in a CONSTANT state of flux, weather patterns CHANGE over time. The more I learn, the more global warming looks like a BIG SCAM, they pick and chose information to back up their claims, and IGNORE everything else. One statement stands out in my mind MORE than any I've EVER heard. One volcanic eruption cranks out more CO2 than the human race has in it's ENTIRE existance. But somehow, we're the ONLY cause of the rise of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases".

For most of the time that there has been life which left fossils (around 600 M years) the normal state is NO ICE CAPS .

Even during the preceding geological period (the "Tertiary", the boundary is taken roughly at the onset of glaciations) the continents were in pretty much their present positions with respect to the poles and equator, but there was "paratropical" forest extending into southern England and broad leaved deciduous woodland (relatives of beech and oak) extending into the high arctic where there were several months of darkness each year.

There is a Glacier on Svarlbad (Norwegian island in the arctic ocean) which spits out fossil leaves and logs from that period.

In Europe and N. America, we are used to the idea of our coals forming in tropical conditions.

I did some work on coal in S. Africa a couple years ago. (There's one country seriously screwing itself up gun wise and economically

During the Carboniferous (when our coals were forming) the combimed continent which africa and S america were part of, was over the pole and experienceing glaciations. The Permo-Trias coals were cold climate, probably laid down in conditions like present day Alaska, Siberia or Finland. We knew when we had drilled through the bottom coal seam when we recovered fossil "boulder clay" in the core.

Keep churning out the CO2 (incase it really does work!) because

1. I don't want to go back to the cold of the '70s to mid '80s
2. If we can get it warm enough, I'd like to see oolitic ironstones forming. It is one big gap in geological knowledge as they aren't forming anywhere on earth at present.

Keith
(no environMENTAL ILLNESS here)

Well Kieth, I guess we are the only scientists that algor didn't contact for his "consensus".

Alpacca Fortyfive said:

There is a Glacier on Svarlbad...

Click to expand...

That's Svalbard.

Case of the migrating "r". Perhaps it thought it was a polar bear.

- Leigh

I've been saying this all along ever since I read a few reports and studied up on a little bit of climate history stuff. Still telling people today, but you know the herds/masses are when it comes to listening to the media instead of experts/common sense/history, etc.