Questions on Blank firing Cartridges
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Country
    SOUTH AFRICA
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Questions on Blank firing Cartridges

    Hi all, I am new to guns, I'm very excited and I'm trying to learn more. I do not know much, please don't be harsh.

    In theory, would it be possible to convert a blank cartridge to fire a small bullet? (Not from a PAK / blank gun, but from a real firearm which can accept the blank cartridge diameters)

    To begin with, I know that the propellant used in these cartridges is not the same as the stuff in standard ammunition. They say that the pressures generated by this flash powder is too great, and the gun could explode.

    If the pressure is too great, then logically, one would just remove most of the powder in the cartridge until a level is found at which the pressure is not too great? Then a projectile can be fired, at that pressure, which is low enough not to break the weaker outer casing of blank cartridges?

    Furthermore, if using the propellant in the black cartridge is not an option, then could one simply replace it with a little black powder?

    Yes, I know there will be a massive smoke cloud when the round is fired, it will be damaging to the barrel of any gun, and is not nearly as powerful as modern propellants, but, would this work in theory, despite the negatives?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    5,515
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5217
    Likes (Received)
    5265

    Default

    Before any of us could answer this in good conscience we would need to know the intended use.

    I note your location and am cautious about giving advice that may be used for improper purposes ie political violence.

    Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: South Africa | Law Library of Congress

  3. Likes michiganbuck, MIBill liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    11,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3993
    Likes (Received)
    4172

    Default

    "new to guns" so should stick with normal,legal,no fooling around ,

    but the bullet likely will get stuck .. then somebody will try a real bullet and blow up the barrel...

    best to not try this..of any funny business with guns..

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Country
    SOUTH AFRICA
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    the bullet likely will get stuck
    Would this be due to a lack of pressure behind the bullet?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    11,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3993
    Likes (Received)
    4172

    Default

    not uncommon for a bullet to get wet from water or oil getting into the powder. The primer fires and the bullet goes part way into the barrel and gets stuck. it takes a strong push to push it out. A bullet fired with a stuck in the barrel will burst the barrel.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,535
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    443
    Likes (Received)
    728

    Default

    You researching suicide methods????

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    5,515
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5217
    Likes (Received)
    5265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BenZiel View Post
    Would this be due to a lack of pressure behind the bullet?
    No. When it happens due to a "squib" load (insufficient propellant to overcome barrel friction) if the shooter fails to notice and fires a second shot without clearing the obstruction the barrel often shatters from the over-pressure.

    Experimentation with firearms is not for the technically ignorant or inexperienced. A lot can go wrong and I've seen guys lucky if all they got was minor burns when a barrel ruptures. I personally know of dozens of cases from an authentic 18th century musket to modern hunting rifles. When it happens the shooter is essentially holding a bomb near his face.

  9. Likes michiganbuck, Newman109 liked this post
  10. #8
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,221
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1534
    Likes (Received)
    824

    Default

    There are a few videos on YouTube in which people have fired .22 caliber pellets powered by .22 caliber nailgun blanks with good results. There's very little reason to do so however, unless for some reason you can't get your hands on .22 ammo. It would be single shot; you'd need to load the pellet and blank by hand for each shot.

  11. Likes BenZiel liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Country
    SOUTH AFRICA
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Should be fine if all testing is done behind a brick wall with a string attached to the trigger

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    226
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    68
    Likes (Received)
    174

    Default

    In theory, would it be possible to convert a blank cartridge to fire a small bullet?

    Yes. Blanks are used to propel grenades, harpoons and nails.

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    105
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BenZiel View Post
    Should be fine if all testing is done behind a brick wall with a string attached to the trigger
    No, it wonít be.

    There shouldnít be any speculation here. Whatever you are doing is a stupid idea. Itís been thoroughly tested that properly made bullets shoot out of properly functioning firearms using properly loaded casings, and even that only 99.9% of the time. Itís academic enough for companies to perform these tests in labs where they know the modes of failures.

    If you need to hide behind a brick wall to shoot your firearm, you have no business shooting it. If youíre commenting to support this guy, realize he might hurt someone besides himself doing this. Not because it will or will not shoot, but because he (or she) came here with an obvious lack of knowledge on firearms and firearm safety.

  15. Likes michiganbuck liked this post
  16. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    11,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3993
    Likes (Received)
    4172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    In theory, would it be possible to convert a blank cartridge to fire a small bullet?

    Yes. Blanks are used to propel grenades, harpoons and nails.
    In a specially made device that was tested for use and safety..not in a home made fabrication.

    Only if you are against the wall protecting your family should you experiment ...with having an exit door take family to run and hide.

    One example and a cops son..It was common for foolish kids to hold a fire cracker by the end and fire it off. Sure enough a cops kid tried this and blew of the end of his thumb.. Yes the cop, the dad came to our school to give us a safety talk and showed us the photos...Things that go boom are dangerous...

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Mifflintown, PA 17059
    Posts
    1,921
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    241

    Default

    Using an unknown powder to force a bullet out the barrel is stupid! Powder charge is determined by the burn rate. For a blank to make the loud POP to simulate gun fire it has to burn very fast! Explode rather than burn at a particular rate needed to push the bullet down the barrel and maintain pressure as the volume of the space increases as the bullet travels toward the muzzle.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    297
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    67
    Likes (Received)
    139

    Default

    Blank powder burns extremely fast to produce the report, or in other words, the explosion you hear. Enough blank powder used in a small enough cartridge space will grenade your firearm and it doesn't take very much.

    Rifle grenades sit on the end of the barrel. That leaves almost the entire barrel open for "space" to let the blank powder expand resulting in enough pressure to launch the grenade but not enough, theoretically, to destroy the firearm. However, it didn't always work out that way.

    Hatcher's Notebook has historical information about the problems encountered trying to develop blank cartridges. The military blew up a lot of firearms before they got what they needed.

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    105
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFrank View Post
    Blank powder burns extremely fast to produce the report, or in other words, the explosion you hear. Enough blank powder used in a small enough cartridge space will grenade your firearm and it doesn't take very much.

    Rifle grenades sit on the end of the barrel. That leaves almost the entire barrel open for "space" to let the blank powder expand resulting in enough pressure to launch the grenade but not enough, theoretically, to destroy the firearm. However, it didn't always work out that way.

    Hatcher's Notebook has historical information about the problems encountered trying to develop blank cartridges. The military blew up a lot of firearms before they got what they needed.
    Another factor, at least for the M4 or M16, is cycling the action. The adaptors they put in the end of the barrels have holes in them to release gas; different sized holes for different lengths of barrel. These are crudely tuned to just barely cycle the bolt group, most known for excessively fouling the receiver and causing Private Snuffy to think wrenching the BFA impossibly tight will solve his misfire issues.

    Another weirdo fact; I canít remember which is which, but the blanks have oh so many crimp ridges while the grenade rounds have more or less of them for ID purposes. We actually came across a box of the wrong kind at a training event, otherwise Iíd never have known.

    Not that any of this is relevant to the OPís strange desire for DIY ballistics testing. Iíd also never heard of Hatcherís Notebook before, and now Iím curious.

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    297
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    67
    Likes (Received)
    139

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    240
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    105
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    I ordered it on the 18th when I saw your post; absolute no brainer for $15. Gotten a lot less with a lot more. One hellova perspective too. Iíve only had a chance to poke through the M1903 and Enfield historyís.

    I work down the road from Ruger. Youíd think with 5-axis CNCs and EDM that tool and die would have died off, but they employ much of the same fixturing as did Springfield armory, with a modern twist.

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,888
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    943

    Default

    Ive had Hatchers Notebook since I was a teen ....its a hardback with proper binding......Its interesting ,but a lot of it is pretty dated now....Especially what were cheap ex military guns now routinely sell for large sums....His other book on the Garand is more interesting ,but reading others who were there ,not particularly factual.

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,888
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    943

    Default

    On the subject of nailgun blanks /charges .....I see no point using them in a 22 ,but a number of shooters use them to power some of the larger rimfires ,like 25 and 27 Stevens ,and 32 rimfire.....With success too ,from whats reported.

  24. #20
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,221
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1534
    Likes (Received)
    824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFrank View Post
    Blank powder burns extremely fast to produce the report, or in other words, the explosion you hear.
    Fair point. There's a significant difference between a blank cartridge and a nail driving cartridge.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •