Rem 700 action threads truing
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  1. #1
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    Default Rem 700 action threads truing

    Hello to all.

    My question is:
    To true the threads on a Remington 700, the method is to pick up the existing thread and run machine right to left into the hole to the end of the old thread. Beginners, if they don’t crash into the integral lugs, usually break off the tip of their thread insert or tool. (Even the most experienced, trash a tool every now and then). Why not cut a clearance area inside the action at the end of the thread? This will, of course, give a relief area to land on and give some useful space so that tool tip breakage can be minimized.

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    Excellent post !

    I have zero idea why..
    ..
    but there are tight specs for the headspace.

    Afaik obduration or sealing the breach comes from the expansion of the brass case.

    Hopefully more knowledgeable members can advise.

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    I don't recall ever having this happen, what are you doing wrong? I thread to a dial indicator and get within .005" stop.

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    ^^^
    This.
    Dial indicator on the carriage (I use that, and the DRO) prevents crashing.
    You can just allow room for the carriage to coast to a stop, and turn the chuck by hand a few revs to finish each cut if you're not experienced on the timing.

    Definitely a high pucker factor with this- trashing a minimum $300 action wouldn't be fun. Practice, practice before chucking up the real deal.

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    I'm not a gunsmith but altering the design might change the tested strength..Yes most quality firearms are likely 6 shakes stronger than need be but I would try to stick with original design.
    Easy enough to go back side bit, and out to the right .

    Cool 700
    remington 700 sniper rifle - Yahoo Image Search Results

    actions for sale..
    "Remington 700 Action" For Sale - Buds Gun Shop

    this guy decent smith and machinist..said he ran a tap in the action..
    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I'm not a gunsmith but altering the design might change the tested strength..Yes most quality firearms are likely 6 shakes stronger than need be but I would try to stick with original design.
    Easy enough to go back side bit, and out to the right .

    Cool 700
    remington 700 sniper rifle - Yahoo Image Search Results

    actions for sale..
    "Remington 700 Action" For Sale - Buds Gun Shop

    this guy decent smith and machinist..said he ran a tap in the action..
    YouTube



    Ist link is a Pinterest
    2nd a Buds gun Adv
    3rd is a guy opening up the threads with a tap-Not for me.

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    A piloted tap is not the same as blueprinting an action.

    Learn to kick out with a dial indicator on your external threads. An undercut at the end of the threads is not ideal if you ever want to set the barrel back and rechamber.

    Once you're used to kicking out with an indicator, internal threads are the same, just a little more nerve wracking.

    --
    Pat Jones
    Firestone CO

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    Quote Originally Posted by pat_j0nes View Post
    A piloted tap is not the same as blueprinting an action.

    Learn to kick out with a dial indicator on your external threads. An undercut at the end of the threads is not ideal if you ever want to set the barrel back and rechamber.

    Once you're used to kicking out with an indicator, internal threads are the same, just a little more nerve wracking.

    --
    Pat Jones
    Firestone CO


    Thank you for your reply.

    My concern is internal only, not the barrel. Threading from inside out is less “nerve racking” and rpms can be much higher. Best I know, carbide threading inserts cut best from 150 RPM to 300 RPM. This is much too fast for me to “kick out” on a dime. To thread from inside out it is best to have a hard stop and a start groove at least the depth of thread. Why not cut these threads from inside out, running machine in reverse with left hand tool?

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    Sharp carbide inserts will cut just fine at low speed. The material doesn't know or care what the tool is made from. 'Honed' or molded inserts are another story.

    As for a relief groove, tensile strength (and stiffness) of a threaded part is generally estimated from the dia at half the thread depth. So you'd be weakening it to some small extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wesg View Post
    Sharp carbide inserts will cut just fine at low speed. The material doesn't know or care what the tool is made from. 'Honed' or molded inserts are another story.

    As for a relief groove, tensile strength (and stiffness) of a threaded part is generally estimated from the dia at half the thread depth. So you'd be weakening it to some small extent.
    The relief groove would only be the tool’s profile, no more no less. Only difference between the relief cut and the thread is that the relief cut has no helix. With proper radius or flat on thread tool, (I would prefer a radius) would this be a “weak spot?”

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    I use Warner's HSS inserts. I do not use a thread relief. I disengage the half nut, stop the spindle, and then crank back the cross slide. I make sure that all my receivers have at least a one thread counter bore in the fron ring so the barrel can shoulder up to the front ring.

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    I kick out with a dial indicator. If you're used to using a dial indicator on external threads it's no different. If I'm threading something that requires an undercut, I add the undercut after I'm done threading.

    --
    Pat Jones
    Firestone CO

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    My opinion on truing 700s has changed over the years. I just don’t feel there is enough ROI on fully truing 700s. I’ll certainly do it if a customer wants to pay for it, but I’m real clear that I don’t feel they would see an accuracy difference.

    What I do is simply run a 1.062-16 2A tap in just to make sure there are no burs and to clean out the threads. Then I machine a quick stub with snug fitting thread. This stub will bottom out on the lug abutments. While this is still set up in the chuck, I’ll thread on the receiver and just skim the face to make sure it is square to the threads.

    That, and a quick lug lap is about all I do. Beyond that, it’s probably time to be looking at aftermarket actions. ad630acc-271f-4e56-ad6a-c0bd3d2950c1.jpg4e94e6a9-a0cc-4f99-8d0a-10f3a7f58ebb.jpg

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    I feel differently. A properly blueprinted 700 shoots as well as a custom action. Every gunsmith has a different idea of what constitutes blueprinting. I coaxially indicate the action in on the boltway and single point cut the threads, lugs and face of the action using the same setup. I do the same with the bolt.

    Now, that's a lot of machine time. Given the cost of a Zermatt Origin action, it's not worth blueprinting a 700 unless you own it already and don't plan to sell the rifle.
    Blueprinted actions do not bring as much money on resale as a rifle built with a custom action.

    --
    Pat Jones
    Firestone CO

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    I know all the usual ways of “truing” an action. And I’ve read all the arguments about why one should and why one shouldn’t. This forum is full of them. I don’t care about how anyone else does it. I am interested in threading from inside out. No one seems interested or maybe no one is knowledgeable enough to answer the question.

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    It’s simple ID threading. When you get to the end of your thread, simultaneously feed in your cross while disengaging you’re half nut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdarragh View Post
    I know all the usual ways of “truing” an action. And I’ve read all the arguments about why one should and why one shouldn’t. This forum is full of them. I don’t care about how anyone else does it. I am interested in threading from inside out. No one seems interested or maybe no one is knowledgeable enough to answer the question.
    Gunsmiths are generally not engineers. I'm not, but I get paid to do this stuff for a living. If you follow standard procedures it will keep you out of trouble.

    Did Mauser chamber the K98 in 300 Win Mag? Nope, but many gunsmiths before you have so it's an established procedure.

    When all of the working gunsmiths are telling you to kick out your threads instead of undercutting the action, that is because this is the established procedure. I don't know if it would be a problem, but I wouldn't want my action done that way.

    When I clean up the threads I generally cut no more than .015. When I true up the lugs I cut as little as possible, you can often see a little blueing in the bottom of an existing machine mark if there were some present. If you want to maintain the safety factor that was engineered into the rifle, you remove as little material as possible.

    Maybe having a ring cut into the action is ok, but I don't recall ever seeing that in a factory action from anyone.

    --
    Pat Jones
    Firestone CO

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    Maybe having a ring cut into the action is ok, but I don't recall ever seeing that in a factory action from anyone.

    98 Mausers do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kobe View Post
    Maybe having a ring cut into the action is ok, but I don't recall ever seeing that in a factory action from anyone.

    98 Mausers do!
    I suppose they do in front of the breeching ring. There's an exception to everything.

    --
    Pat Jones
    Firestone CO

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    "Maybe having a ring cut into the action is ok, but I don't recall ever seeing that in a factory action from anyone"

    If you are referring to my post, what is wrong or dangerous with my method?


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