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  1. #1
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    A friend has an E. Remington & Sons Rolling Block Rifle, Modelo Argentino 1879, Pat. May 30 1884. It has a browned barrel with a great looking bore but would probably need need to be recrowned due to cleaning rod wear. The stock has had its share of bad treatment over the years but is still in serviceable shape. My question is, does anyone have a good guess on what cartridge it takes (My guess is 45-70 but I did not have anything to measure the chamber with when I looked at it.) Also does anyone have any guess as to its value?

    Gary P. Hansen

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    Its a south american rolling block so it could be 7 mm mauser. But it could have been rebarreled or rebored to a larger chambering.
    Ray

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    It is not a 7x57mm, it looked like .45 cal but it could be .50 cal or .43 cal, I did not have any thing to measure the bore with.

    Gary P. Hansen

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    It could be a .43 Spanish.

    IF so, you'll have to reload your ammo.

    For a peek, look at this link...

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/2257/2257-random-1.htm

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    I';ve got an old gunbook around that lists these actions by type/source...

    if it's rimfire, it's like to be a 42 egytian...


    lemme look for it and i'll get back withyou
    jeffe

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    Jeff:

    It is centerfire. If you find the book, I would be interested in if it lists Cal.s that the 1879 was made in.

    Gary P. Hansen

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    Another question. If it is 45-70 and in good shape would it be safe to fire factory 45-70 smokeless rounds in it? I seam to remember that factory 45-70 are loaded (low power) to prevent trouble in older guns.

    Gary P. Hansen

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    Mine was 43 Spanish. Take a chamber cast Butch

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    As mentioned a chamber cast will be your best bet to identify cartridge & caliber.

    Paul G

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    The above is my 1879 Argentine contract Rem RB. It is in .43 Remington Spanish vs the Spanish verison, .43 Spanish Reformando. If you look down the barrel you should see 5 lands and grooves. The action should have the rotary extractor, and the top flat of the barrel reinforce will be marked Ejercito Argentina.



    The above photo is the .43 Remington Spanish cartridge. The reason the bullet is reversed in the case is I was measureing the throat as I was having a custom mould made for the rifle.

    Rick

    Let's see if the photos come up now



    [This message has been edited by Buckshot (edited 04-03-2004).]

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    I do not think that my friend's rifle takes a bottlenecked cartridge. Is the 11mmx58mm cartrige bottlenecked? Hopefully, I will have a chance to look at his rifle and take some measurements some time this week. Doese anyone have a source for the .43cal Span. brass?

    Gary P. Hansen

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    I was able to get over to my friend's house and measure the chamber of his rifle with my calipers. I was wrong, his chamber is bottelnecked. Here are the dimensions, bore .4380", base of chanber .5125" dia, dia. of rim .6560", lenght from rim to bottelneck 2.599". Can anyone tell me what cartridge it takes, and where I could find some brass?

    Gary P. Hansen

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    ........Well the nominal GROOVE of the .43 Remington Spanish is .439", but some of these old rifles had issues. Your .438" measurment isn't off by much. Since it IS a bottle necked chamber it is NOT the Spanish Reformondo. These also had a different bore-groove measurement.

    Boxer primed brass is available from Midway and Graf & Son. Also anyone else carrying Bertram brass. The brass will run from $28 to $32 per 20 depneding on if someone has it on sale. I think the latest Midway flier has it featured (but NOT on sale @ $31/20).

    Both RCBS and Lyman have bullet moulds. In my photo the flat nosed one is the RCBS and the other is the Lyman. The Lyman is the traditional 370gr bullet design. The RCBS a more effective hunting bullet.

    I forgot to add, since you asked about value that naturally it will depend on the condition as always. As supplied by Remington to Argentina, the action was tin plated to resist corrosion. These are VERY scarce as the tin plating wasn't very durable and I don't know what one would bring to a collector.

    When obsoleted these rifles were called back into store and completely re-arsenaled and re-built. They were nicely reblued and had any worn parts replaced, including stocks. Such a specimen in VG+ condition with a good to excellent barrel can bring up to a legitimate $600 - 650 price. You then have some folks who think since it's old it's worth a fortune.

    However there were tons of these rifles in excellent condition dumped back on the market in the 60's and were somewhat a glut for awile. Probably a lot were torn apart for their actions in the early inception of BPCR competition, and other reasons.

    I bought mine 8-9 years ago at a gunshow for $165. Obviously the guy was scared off by the fact you couldn't go to Wally World and buy ammo, or he just didn't have a clue.

    Rick

    [This message has been edited by Buckshot (edited 04-09-2004).]

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    Thank you Buckshot. I am thinking that my friends rifle is a .43 cal Remington Spanish. The 2.599 Dimension I came up was my feel. Instead of measuring to the start of the bottelneck I may have been measuring to the lip of the chamber. Do my other dimensions line up with yours? I did not measure the thickness of the rim on the chamber, I will do that and check the OAL of the chamber. I can not read the dimensions in your photo, could you post them, please?

    Gary P. Hansen

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    .......When I get home from work this morning I'll try to remember to measure a cartridge case.

    4-10.

    Okay, I got these measurements. These are from Bertram brass that's been fired 8 times and partially neck sized only:

    Rim thickness: .078"
    Rim Diameter: .622"
    Casehead: .511"
    Neck: .465"
    Case Length: 2.255"

    .........Rick

    [This message has been edited by Buckshot (edited 04-11-2004).]

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    Thanks Buckshot, that helps alot.

    Gary P/ Hansen


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