RIMMED Cartridge conversion question - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    The issue with the 1914 Enfield when modified from the original .276 caliber to .303 Rimmed was that the extractor took up one heck of a lot of the face of the chamber where the cartridge needed to head space. That was solved by adding an integral auxiliary hook to the front of the extractor that was much narrower, providing more head space seating area. Ditto with the Siamese Mauser, the Thai's arrived at the same solution making the M98 Mauser work the rimmed '95 Austrian cartridges. The modified extractor worked splendidly, and the modification would not be over difficult to build into any similar design. The tapered feed ahead of he lugs found on the M1903 and M1917 has to go though, it won't work with rimmed. The modern enclosed bolt heads like the M700 Remington and M70 Winchester push feeder are not going to be so easily modified. I am also a Krag Jorgensen fan, the bolt head system is the best rimmed design out there. The failings are the magazine system, as far as making it work with any cartridge but the 30/40 Krag, the 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser, or the 8 x 58R Danish, depending on the model, and the top ejection interfering with mounting a scope, equally hard to fix. However the 30/40 Krag cartridge is as good as rimmed cartridges get, and scopes are not mandatory for the ranges the cartridge is effective to. Save your time and money and hunt up a good Savage Mod 40 in 30/30 WCF that has been correctly tapped for a scope, and make dang sure the magazine is present and working. It is hands down a better gun in every way than a 325 or a 340, all the makings for a fine sporter are there already. You will never look back.
    Last edited by 4575wcf; 08-15-2020 at 06:53 AM.

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    nothing wrong with a krag. just dont want a krag. Strangely all of the adds ive found for one on gun broker all have the same clause, no returns or refunds once i have seen it in person.. after buying it online...

    that doesnt work with me.

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    I get it. The Krag is what it is, there is no changing them much. What I meant to say in my posts is that the solution to your desire to own a 30 WCF bolt gun is that you are probably going to find your answer in the past. Rimmed bolt guns these days are considered a very backward step, and modern weapons designs do not accommodate them. I NEVER let things like that deter me. With the gun shows closed victim to the Covid 19 foolishness, the pawn shop is your best source, at least here out west.

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    Iirc the Remington 788 was made in 30-30, and the guns were noted for their accuracy. They can be easily found on the used market but be prepared to pay, they are know for accuracy.
    Member Bamban I believe built a benchrest Bolt gun in 3030. Idk if it was a single shot or repeater but maybe contact him for tips.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by akajun View Post
    Iirc the Remington 788 was made in 30-30, and the guns were noted for their accuracy. They can be easily found on the used market but be prepared to pay, they are know for accuracy.
    Member Bamban I believe built a benchrest Bolt gun in 3030. Idk if it was a single shot or repeater but maybe contact him for tips.

    Just got off the phone with Nez "Bamban" He is headed to Camp Swift to shoot in a match. I sent him a link to this thread. He built his on a Mo DeFina receiver.

  6. #26
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    Without second guessing the OP ,I believe the theory behind the rimmed guns is for cast bullet benchrest ,the rimmed case isnt subject to shortening by primer push with the light loads typically used for cast bullet accuracy.......Incidentally ,as to 788s,these one time cheap little guns are now considered to be gold for whatever reason,and priced accordingly......yes ,they are accurate in 222,but so is just about any other 222 gun that doesnt lock on a single bolt handle lug. .

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    I remember when the Remington M788 was released on the shooting public. I guess that dates me a little. The rifle was greeted with a general yawn, considered a beginner's first rifle sort of. The separate bolt head 30/30 and 44 Mag versions hardly made it out of the gate, I don't think very many were built. By the time the accuracy potential showed up they were all nearly out of production. Just in time to become sought after. Shoot, they do. A stiff tubular receiver with minimal cutouts, and a barrel by one of the better factory offerings. My brother searched for one for years at a reasonable price before he landed one.

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    The OP never answered the question: what type of action does he want to try to convert to a 30-30? He seems angry that no one's "man enough" to want to help him build this firearm. Those of us who have experience with sporterizing and doing our own gunsmithing have offered the advise that the only way your going to get this work done is if you build it yourself. It isn't through apathy or lack of skill that professional gunsmiths would avoid something like this, it's because such a project would be a huge time sink and a money looser for them.
    Getting rimmed cartridges to feed from a box magazine and feed rails that were designed for a completely different rimless cartridge is a time consuming challenge. Then there's the issue of altering the bolt face and extractor. There's also unforeseen problems, like the cartridges taking a nose dive inside a double stack magazine box as the bottom edge of the bolt tries to push the top of the first cartridges rim. No matter how much a bolt action rifle in 30-30 that came from the factory costs, it will always cost much more to have a rifle designed for rimless converted to this caliber.
    That being said, in this day and age it will always cost more to modify or sporterize a military surplus action, or build a rifle on a custom action, than it will to just buy an existing rifle. If the OP's heart is set on building a bolt action in 30-30 instead of buying one of the several off the shelf rifles that have been made in this caliber, here's some advise: Contrary to what was said earlier, the best option for doing this modification would be a small ring Mauser. When set up properly there should be .005" or less between the breech of the barrel and the bolt. There is no huge gap between these parts. The trigger guard of a Siamese Mauser has the same bolt spacing as the trigger guard for the small ring Mausers. The 30-30 Winchester operates at a lower pressure than any of the cartridges that were chambered in '93, '95, and '96 Mausers, so there's no issue with the action strength.
    There was a thread about converting small ring Mausers to 30-30 on the Castboolits forum a couple of years ago. You can only get four rounds of 30-30 into a standard Mauser magazine. Sometimes the action will feed these just fine. On other actions it's jamtastic. There are several work-arounds, and in the end this is a do-able project. Can you just bolt the parts together like an AR? No. Is someone else going to do this work for you? No. If you want to spend a lot more money, and use up a large chunk of time, with setbacks, pit falls, patience testing ordeals, then it is possible to build this rifle instead of just buying one. There is a satisfaction in taking a junker action and creating a handsome rifle from it. The learning curve is steep, and there are lots of skill sets to be mastered, but the end result is a unique firearm unlike any other. I enjoy building rifles, and you may discover that it is a halfway decent hobby. But the message here is that if it's because of liability or the enormous lack of profitability, no gunsmith is going to be able to pay their bills by taking on such a project. If you want it, your going to have to build it yourself.
    Disclaimer: I am going to try to convert a M38 Turk to 30-30, but I have four or five other rifles to finish first.

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    The OP has probably gone away unless he is getting email notifications.
    Not sure why I did not think of this earlier. Savage has been making a model 25 for some time and one of the factory chamberings is 30/30. I have one in 222 and it is surprisingly accurate. The 222 with a night vision 4 power scope will put 5 rounds into a spot that can be covered with a nickel on a moonless night. This thing was purchased during the ammo shortage and the only brass I could get was Lapua match that probably helps.
    The model 25 is not expensive and would cost way less that custom built. It probably will not be as accurate as the 222 but should be way better than a lever action as far as accuracy.
    Just looked at the Savage web site and can not find any mention of the model 25 being available in 30/30. Now I am not sure it ever was. Maybe listed one time but no interest?

    Looked in my old Gun Digests and a Savage 25 in 30/30 is NOT there, mental lapse on my part. Did see a few more bolt actions in 30/30 were mentioned in an internet search. If one had to have one even though common sense said it is a poor choice, look for an old one and refurbish it.
    Last edited by FredC; 01-12-2021 at 11:03 PM. Reason: Faulty memory correction.

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    The reason why professional Gunsmiths will not touch this project is because...
    1) It is pointless (stupid.)
    2) It will be very expensive for the Gunsmith. And he will have to pass the costs on to you.
    3) The customer isn't experienced enough to understand, and will always blame the gunsmith.

    The solution is get a degree in Mechanical Engineering or go to a good Gunsmithing school, and then do it yourself.

    I can only supply the truth. The answers you seek are likely to be lies.

    Are you looking for someone that will lie to you?

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    People are always talking about 30/30 conversions on forums,just to stir up an argument,I think......If you can do it,do it.....dont gab about it.....Anyway ,a Ross MkIII in 303 is the most accurate of all the rimmed militaries,and mine has a mint bore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    The OP has probably gone away unless he is getting email notifications.
    And that was a bad thing?



    I don't "hate" 30-30. Main drawback in MY youth was that nearly all we SAW had tubular magazines, and many of us wanted pointy boolits. Some other rifle got the nod. BFD. Not as if there were no choices..

    But....

    "Back in the day" when we heard time after time that;

    "more deer had been take with the 30-30 than.."

    we'd get weary of it, stop the braggart, and remind him:

    That may be. But only because no other firearm was THERE to even be AIMED at the unfortunate target at that fatal second!"

    Nothing "magical" about ANY cartridge, really. They ALL have competition.

    Why look to ADD a problem in a world already full of equal or better solutions?

    Person is going to BRAG:

    "I have this here one-of-a-kind 30-30.."

    At which point I might be tempted to pass the hat, take up a collection, see if we could buy the poor unfortunate bastid a round of solace for his misery... as a distraction...

    Whilst we scarpered off to a safe distance for a more congenial chat over less "religious" matters...

    If-even there is anything LEFT about bang-sticks as has NOT become a "religion" to SOMEBODY?

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    may be wrong about this but was not the win. 225 a semi rim case that would fit a 30-06 bolt face i also believe that it was also based on a thick walled blown out neck down 30-30 . way back when i picked up a pre 64 mod 70 win in 219 wasp the only reason i picked it up was it had a bal var 6 x 24 scope miller single set trigger the barrel was a piffer and they turn the brass down to make it fit the 30-06 bolt face and it could be re chambered to 22-250 with out setting the barrel back i sold the brass and dies off to a guy we called carl von zipper so that mite be the best of both worlds for you if you reload reliable feeding

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1yesca View Post
    may be wrong about this but was not the win. 225 a semi rim case that would fit a 30-06 bolt face i also believe that it was also based on a thick walled blown out neck down 30-30 . way back when i picked up a pre 64 mod 70 win in 219 wasp the only reason i picked it up was it had a bal var 6 x 24 scope miller single set trigger the barrel was a piffer and they turn the brass down to make it fit the 30-06 bolt face and it could be re chambered to 22-250 with out setting the barrel back i sold the brass and dies off to a guy we called carl von zipper so that mite be the best of both worlds for you if you reload reliable feeding
    I doubt one could BEGIN to make a truly "comprehensive" list of all the ideas, good, bad, and sidegodlin as have been tried since gunpowder was invented - even more so "smokeless" and fixed ammunition.

    Common-sense still has far the greater value.

    .22-250 has proven it is what it is. No more than that, but still...

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    Nothing wrong with rimmed cases even in a bolt action. However, rotary magazines work rather well! Push comes to shove, buy a .303 and load down to 30-30 velocities. It would be a real pussy cat and surprisingly accurate. OR ... just buy a handi-rifle in 30-30. With lever_revolution powder and Nosler bullets they give nice on-shot kills on deer.


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