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  1. #1
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    One of my kid brothers (not the one who posts here on occasion, just to keep peace in the family) sold this gun to a mutual friend expressly for a mantlepiece decoration. Said friend shoots sporting clays with a pump, and after keeping the double beside the fireplace awhile, decided he wanted to see if it could be used around the "estate".

    It is just an old Hopkins and Allen, but I can remember in teen years being confronted with one by a girfriend's father, so they are handy to have, expecially if you have a lot of daughters, as does my friend. But I digress...





    The problem is that the gun springs open when fired. All the mechanism is there and most is tight enough and in reasonable shape. Except the area which engages the latch is worn to a rounded taper. The latch has some wear on it, too. As can be seen, there is overall surface rust. Inside the barrels are clean, smooth, and bright, except the left which has some lead fouling.

    I think they may have had a side deal that I was not aware of, like "well if you buy it, you can always get steve to work on it" or "give me a good price and i'll get your brother to fix it for me" You know how people always look out for friends and family.

    Is there an approved/standard fix? I understand the gun is probably not worth the cost of professional repair, but in this case there are other ways of getting even, err, i mean, well anyway...

    I don't know much about guns but am capable of involved machine work. Any comments or advice are welcome.

    Thanks!
    smt

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    You should be able to find parts for it here.
    www.e-gunparts.com

    The barrel latch may need to be welded up and recut. You can do it with a tig welder and a file.

    Paul G

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    Paul-

    thanks for the reply. One of my worries was, is there a way to keep the barrels cool so they don't un-solder in that area? I have TIG capability, but have never tried it near a soldered joint. Is there enough mass there it shouldn't be a problem?

    Thanks!
    smt

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    Regarding welding the lug, I would think there is plenty of mass to prevent melting the solder but I would clamp everything together so it can't come apart and include some extra mass for heat sinking (including some steel round bars in the chambers), just to be sure. But you may need to weld the latch instead, or also.

    But first, I would try to determine how much of the latch and lug are actually engaging now, and basically why it's not staying locked. You want to be fixing the real problem.

  5. #5
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    Tig welding will work fine to build up the latch area.I had it done on a Savage with the same locking style.
    And if I am thinking correctly,the soft solder doesn't start for about three inches forward of the back of the barrels.Look for a joint in the top rib.

    But,that gun probably has short chambers,causing an overpressure condition.
    This is probably what is causing most of the unlocking.
    proper chamber gauge,and if they are short (probably)you will either have to have them lengthened to modern depths,or buy short shells (they are available,just expensive).

    The older prewar guns had a lot of 2 5/8" chambers,and even the 2 3/4" ones seem to be a little short for plastic hulls.

    From personal expeirence,the older Remington Dove and Quail loads (the cheapies)had shells that were about 1/16" shorter than the standard .I found this out when I tried to reload some.As far as I know,they are still made that way.
    It could be to discourage reloading(what I thought at the time)or it could be to make the load fit into the hull without any fillers since those use a shot cup instead of a cushion wad (to save money).
    From what I have read on a double gun dedicated site,the promo shells (cheapies) are actually higher pressure loads than most standard velocity premium loads.
    So, a standard target load will probably work best when you get the chambers to the right depth.

    If you have any more questions I can answer,email me from my profile as I only get here once a week!
    I hope this helps,Robert.

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    just for the record ...........time honored way of protecting ribs from coming apart is multiple loops of twisted wire w/ wedges driven bearing on ribs ......& none say u cant wrap the barel in soaked rags as well

    most of these have wear/setback of hinge pin surfaces....the sorry ,poor boy fix is peening the bearing area to tighten things up...will work for a while .......proper fix is a new sligtly enlarged hinge pin .....( only did one , on a $25 dollar double abt 45 yrs ago ) ..
    u may also be able to pin in a new T shaped seat ( hopsful;ly better steel ) .similar to the parker lug seat repairs


    best wishes
    docn8as

  7. #7
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    This is great information, especially the notes about chamber size and loads.

    Is the chamber depth measured from the butt of the barrel, or is the counter bore for the rim of the shell deducted? From the flat face, this appears to have 2-3/4" chambers, maybe a smidgeon longer.

    It would seem desireable to use cushion loads, if possible. Less stress on the shoulder and less on the latch, too? I would not know how to compare, but the the gun weighs about 7-1/2 lbs. so not too light, but it is obviously a hard butt gun.

    You are right on about the joint in the rib, and the solder starting about 3 inches ahead of the barrel butts, so that takes some of the worry off. I wondered if slugs in the barrels might be a good idea or not, thanks for suggesting that.

    Doc- thanks for the tips on cooling fins (:^)) and wedges. I do not know what the parker fix is. But you are also correct about the hinge pin. It is tight in the outside, but the lug on the barrels is a little sloppy.

    Thanks for all the help, this is just the kind of stuff I don't know and am glad to learn. I can't actually make time to try any work for a few weeks, but find it is good to have it percolate in my mind a bit before actually jumping in with both feet, anyway.

    It sounds like a good approach would be to locate and ream the hinge for a slightly oversized pin and fit that to work smoothly. Then if the latch were to be built up (down) a little oversized and filed or machined to clear the guiding grooves on each side, that the barrel lug might only need dressed flat again so the wedge action of the latch was on a flat, rather than a rounded surface?

    Then learn a little bit about loads and sizes.

    Again, thanks!

    smt

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    Could probably TIG material onto the hinge lug and refit it too. Also you should replace the hinge pin if there is much wear on it.

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    If hinge is not worn, then fix is to return barrel latching surfaces to original as others suggest above. Loose hinge can be tightened by "knurling" barrel underlug with center punch and fitting with file & stone. Permanent fix is to replace hinge pin with oversize and refit underlug to new pin. Keep the barrels cool by plugging muzzles, position vertically, fill with water, then weld. Don't forget to check trigger/sear wear. Cock, slam butt with rubber hammer a few times to see if the hammers drop. If they do, it's time for a trigger job or time to permanently retire the shotgun.

  10. #10
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    Hi Stephen,
    The chamber depth includes the rim of the cartridge.So,the gauge should be compared against the end of the barrel,not the rim recess.

    I didn't go into the hinge pin earlier,and I should have!
    One way to fix wear is to make a shim to take up the slack,if it isn't too bad.Dress the lug on the barrel,and hard solder a shim in place,or use superglue to hold a section of feeler gauge in place.
    As for installing an oversize pin(Brownells sells them,or you could make your own).

    I would prefer to tig weld the lug and reseat it.I have one that will need this done,as soon as I can find the time.
    To recut the lug,a milling machine would be preferable to a file!

    And Mike in Mich is right about the safety and sears,make sure all of that is in good condition before you worry with the rest!
    Check to see if the safety really works,and doesn't make the triggers touchy after it is released.
    A rubber mallet applied to the front of the reciever less barrels will save damaging the stock.
    Robert.

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    steven

    parker seats that i have seen ( & these were underlugs) uad a T shaped piece pinned ....a vertical slot was cut into lug & the vert.section of T was inserted & pinned ...the horiz. section became the seat ....this allowed for replacement & perhaps multiple thicknesses were available for tight lockup ...great majority of thrust is rearward , doesnot take too much to hold it closed..........never really got my hands on a pristine one to see if it was original or a repair process ..they were all well done ,so cud be factory....someone out there knows ....tig of course wasnt around ( at least readily so) ....wud think u can put lots better metal back than H&A ever dreamed abt ,since these guns were produced for mass consumption ,although better than the belgian stuff , like "BARKER BRO" , & the hardware brands .....if u ordered sufficient , they wud put any name u wanted ...belknap.shapleigh eastern arms....etc......at least H&A put their own name on .......
    best wishes
    docn8as

    ps ...if u get into trigger & sears.....kasenite is ur friend .... as the soft factory steel will merely recreate the problem

  12. #12
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    On the subject of pins...
    I just did a repair of a single barrel with a terrible problem, I had to ream quite a bit to get to a clean hole. Most of these use taper pins, standard machine shop type pins that are 1/4 inch per foot taper. The Brownells pins are only 3 inches long, and don't cover all of the possible dimensions. I had to buy a 5 1/2 inch long one from McMaster Carr to get one to suit my paritculiar problem. This is the best way to fix a worn pin, much better than peening or shimming. Not real cheap tho if you have to buy the reamer and pin.
    Steve

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    Is this a great site or what!?

    The things to be learned a person never even knew to ask, although that is exactly _why_ I asked here.

    Took a rubber flooring hammer to the stock, and nothing gets loose or goes off, with the safety released. The safety works well and is positive. The front trigger (right barrel) feels "normal" (consider my lack of in depth exposure, here though) It is crisp, and has a bit of a pull before tripping cleanly. The rear trigger/left barrel will draw back it seems a half inch before releasing, though. And sometimes it will hang up, if pulled slowly, rather than squeezed with vigor. It seems "gummy".

    I have plenty of taper pins here, and most if not all of the reamers up to a 7, I think. So thanks for mentioning to look for that. Just the heads up is good so I don't try to drive it out the wrong side. The wear on the hinge lug is "definite" but not really sloppy yet. My inclinaton is to ream it and fit a bigger pin as that is a pretty straightforward fix if the parts are carefully located before the reamer is applied

    It seems the idea I am hearing is that it would be a good idea to inspect the lock, and at least clean it out, while looking for any "anomalies", for safety's sake. The fact that it is possible for the rear trigger to hang up seems deadly hazardous, so that will be attended to.

    So far, the safety suggestions have to be the most important things I was lucky to learn here. Beyond those, the work seems straight forward and un-intimidating except maybe welding the barrel lug. I'll have to let that percolate a bit. But there has certainly been enough information offered here to proceed with.

    Thanks, everyone!
    smt



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