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slide weight / recoil question...

Eddie M.

Plastic
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Chesapeake, VA
My basic understanding is that the heavier a gun is the less recoil is felt...

if you lighten the slide on a pistol will it reduce recoil? less mass traveling rearwards but less mass to dampen the shot...
 
Your first thought and your second thought do not match. Your thinking on the first thought is correct. The more mass a gun has the less it will travel in recoil. However if you lighten the slide say on a 1911 you will be shoving a lighter slide at higher speeds since the weight of the slide is not there to remain at rest when the energy contacts it.

First law
It is possible to select a set of reference frames, called inertial reference frames, observed from which a particle moves without any change in velocity if no net force acts on it. This law is often simplified into the sentence "A body continues to maintain its state of rest or of uniform motion unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force." This law is known as the law of inertia.

Second law
Observed from an inertial reference frame, the net force on a particle is proportional to the time rate of change of its linear momentum: F = d (mv) / dt.[3][4][5][6][7] Momentum mv is the product of mass and velocity. Force and momentum are vector quantities and the resultant force is found from all the forces present by vector addition. This law is often stated as "F = ma: the net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration."

Third law

Whenever a particle A exerts a force on another particle B, B simultaneously exerts a force on A with the same magnitude in the opposite direction. The strong form of the law further postulates that these two forces act along the same line. This law is often simplified into the sentence "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
 
Eddie

If you are like me, most of the above two posts have left me in the dust. ;) ;)

The felt recoil from a M1911 is mostly due to the slide being stopped in it's rearward movement. To prove this to yourself, duct-tape the slide so that it cannot recoil to the rear and you will find that it's like a kitty cat to shoot.

So, if you go to a lighter slide it will only increase the felt recoil. One trick of competition shooters is to increase the weight of the slide which lessens recoil and makes the pistol much more manageable in timed and rapid fire, even with hardball ammo.

JMHO

Ray
 
Felt Recoil

Hello Everyone. I'm brand new here--this is my first post!

I have been a competive shooter for 5 years now. Recoil is something I'm very interested in.

The first thing I have personally noticed with decreasing the felt recoil is the poundage of the recoil spring. You will feel much more recoil with a 21# recoil spring in your 1911 than you will with a 12# recoil spring. Also, decreasing your mainspring will also decrease felt recoil. The problem with decreasing the mainspring is it will affect the reliability of your trigger--if you go to low. The lighter the mainspring, the more light strikes on the primer you will get. 19# has always been reliable for me. 17#'s with (soft) federal primers are ok. With harder primers such as Winchester and CCI, I've had reliability issues with 17#ers. 19#ers always set them off.

The problem with lowering the poundage on your recoil spring is you run the risk of cracking your slide--unless you lighten the slide. I believe this is one reason competitive shooters lighten their slides. I've known shooters to add weight to their guns with tungsten guide rods. This helps control muzzle flip, but I've never known a shooter to add weight to the slide.

Another reason to lighten the slide is speed. You can shoot faster splits with a lighter slide. The gun will cycle faster. F=ma. Force is relatively constant. The force is basically your power factor of the ammunition (i.e. velocity times bullet weight). If mass (of the slide) goes down, acceleration has to go up.
 
. . . but I've never known a shooter to add weight to the slide . . .

cse

Have you never heard of a Bomar rib? They were a common addition to a M1911 when I shot competitively. The rib elevated the sights and provided a lot of weight to the slide. The recoil spring was tuned to the slide and the load. We also used a recoil damper which was a spring loaded recoil spring guide that prevented the slide from banging into the receiver. Unlike you, i've never known anyone to change the mainspring.

Maybe we shot a different discipline than you do now. What are "faster splits"?

Ray
 
Recoil

cse

Maybe we shot a different discipline than you do now. What are "faster splits"?

Ray

Ray,

It sounds like we're talking about two different shooting sports. I was referring to USPSA. In the Open and Limited category, those guys go hog wild trying to get their slides as light as possible.

I shoot the Single Stack division in USPSA and CDP in IDPA. Slide lightening is illegal, but we bend the rules a little. A few guys will take weight off the slide by flat topping it, or tri-topping it, removing metal under the bomars, making wide and deep cocking serrations. It's a game......

Split times refer to the time between shots.
 
Hi There,

I'm going to show my ignorance and ask "why does changing the Recoil
spring change the impact the firing pin has on the primer (unless we're talk-
ing about a full automatic)?" I would think the firing pin impact would be a
function of hammer spring tension and firing pin return spring tension.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
 
Recoil

"why does changing the Recoil
spring change the impact the firing pin has on the primer

It doesn't. I was referring to the mainspring. We're calling it two different things. I believe you're calling it a hammer spring. The only point I was making is that spring can also affect recoil.
 
12# recoil spring?

The difference between a 12# and a 21# recoil spring is the beating your frame will take if you shoot defense rounds or 165gr light load target rounds.
If you shoot 185gr+p gold dots with a 12# recoil spring, you're gonna hate your 1911. Talk about stovepipes and recoil-go to wally world and pick up a 100 pack of winchester 230gr ball ammo and use a 12# spring. I guess it all depends on what you want to use your 1911 for, mine have only been used for target because i haven't had to defend myself with one yet, but I always shoot what I will have in it when I carry.
 








 
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