What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 104
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  1. #2061
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    NPR is calling them "security volunteers" …..

    They even gave a report about the man that killed the perp, and made it sound like
    he was the perp....spin, spin, spin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I noticed a few things:
    1. The Rabbi's party didn't seem to try to doo anything, not "help your fellow man" in any way (or at least no one indicated this)
    They interviewed one of the party attendees. He initially ran, but then came back and managed to bash the attacker in the face with a coffee table.

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    [QUOTE=Scottl;3466190]
    Horrific enough as it was, imagine the carnage if the attacker had a gun or there were multiple attackers with knives. IMO New York city's ultra strict gun laws are leaving this community wide open to further attacks from their violent neighbors.

    As usual scott you have your facts incorrect. The incident happend in Monsey, NY which is an area nowhere near New York City. The sullivan law does not
    cover rockland county, in fact in that area there is no permit required for any long gun, rifle or shotgun. Try your best to get it right next time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Just saw a church shooter on the news. He pulled a shotgun and shot two guys...before the next shot a carry guy whacked him dead..sounds like there were three legal carry guys there..Good.

    Should be a few legal carry guys/gals at every place...
    How should we feel if the person who stopped additional murder by using their own firearm was not legally permitted/licensed to do so. Illegal carry.... ?

    I really didn't appreciate the minister's comment of "appreciation for a government that ALLOWED people to protect themselves.

    The "government" does not "give rights" we are born with, it only takes them away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    How should we feel if the person who stopped additional murder by using their own firearm was not legally permitted/licensed to do so. Illegal carry.... ?
    Long before the current flap about CC, I would occasionally carry a gun if I was going somewhere I was uneasy about. My view was that if I behaved, the chances of being searched were next to nil. Consequently, the only time the cops would be aware of it would be if I needed it and if I really needed it, the penalty for illegal carry would be insignificant. As it happened, the only time I used a gun seriously, to stop a mugging, all the officer wanted was the caliber for his report. As I have said a few times, the Webster Groves police know which side they are on. Glad to have them.

    Bill

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  10. #2066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    It stops being fun if they fight back. I knew a guy who limped the rest of his life after being gashed by a wild hog during a hunt. Those suckers are MEAN!
    It was always work for me protecting our peanut crops. When the fellows with dogs came over we all wore snake proof leggings even in the summer. The leggings besides giving protection from rattlesnakes and thorns would have been good protection from pig tusks. The dogs wore similar vests. We killed between 200 and 300 personally in the first ten years we were here. I only had one deliberately charge me, a Ruger single action revolver with a heavy handload dropped him about five feet away.
    Still think hunting them on someone elses place might have been fun instead of work.
    Using a laser is not unfair just conserves ammo. My neighbor told me about renting a helicopter to hunt pigs on one of his other ranches, he killed 76 before his shoulder could not take anymore. He was in his mid seventies at the time. He probably could have killed 200 or more that day if he had been younger. His neighbor did kill that many in one day.
    A few years ago when I was on the roof installing our internet antennas, I saw a helicopter hunting on my east side neighbor's place and they killed about seventy in thirty minutes.

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    The unedited streamed video of the church shooting in Texas was/is available on Youtube. The one on TV is not complete. There were several armed members in the service. The first fellow shot was maybe 10 feet away from the shooter. He made the fatal mistake of rising out of his chair and then began drawing his weapon. The shooter saw him and and shot. He then shot the fellow about 3 feet away that he had talked to before drawing the shotgun. During this exchange the retired law enforcement fellow drew his weapon and from 15' to 20' away fired the fatal shot that ended the event in 6 seconds. In the following 6 seconds several members approached the shooter from various directions with guns drawn but no further action was required.
    For those who actively carry it is a very interesting video to study closely. Much to learn about proper preparation and awareness.

    Bob
    WB8NQW

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  13. #2068
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    It was always work for me protecting our peanut crops. When the fellows with dogs came over we all wore snake proof leggings even in the summer. The leggings besides giving protection from rattlesnakes and thorns would have been good protection from pig tusks. The dogs wore similar vests. We killed between 200 and 300 personally in the first ten years we were here. I only had one deliberately charge me, a Ruger single action revolver with a heavy handload dropped him about five feet away.
    Still think hunting them on someone elses place might have been fun instead of work.
    Using a laser is not unfair just conserves ammo. My neighbor told me about renting a helicopter to hunt pigs on one of his other ranches, he killed 76 before his shoulder could not take anymore. He was in his mid seventies at the time. He probably could have killed 200 or more that day if he had been younger. His neighbor did kill that many in one day.
    A few years ago when I was on the roof installing our internet antennas, I saw a helicopter hunting on my east side neighbor's place and they killed about seventy in thirty minutes.
    I have no problem with anyone killing wild hogs, in a sporting or "unsporting" manner. Fortunately we don't have them up here but I understand they are incredibly destructive. My comments were about the possibility of serious injury if you somehow get too close to one.

    I never understood the European practice of "hunting bayonets" in the black powder era until I talked to the man who had been slashed, and a couple others who narrowly escaped. Most of the ones I have seen photos of are designed for double guns and likely were meant for last-ditch protection against an enraged hog.
    Last edited by Scottl; 12-31-2019 at 01:42 PM. Reason: typo - same word twice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I have no problem with anyone killing wild hogs...
    They certainly taste good. Waaay better than any commercial pork. At least the ones I have eaten, maybe there's bad wild hog out there too but so far, yum.

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    [QUOTE=Scottl;3466877] My comments ere about the possibility of serious injury if you somehow get too close to one.

    +1, that is one of the scariest personal experiences I ever had. [1] Was hiking with my mom in the woods, a large wild hog
    was trotting along the trail towards. My mom asked 'can you climb a tree," to which I replied "I sure can right now."
    Fortunately the animal showed little interest in us and trotted on by.

    [1] yes scarier than that one with the alligator and the stalled jeep....

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    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3466493]
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Horrific enough as it was, imagine the carnage if the attacker had a gun or there were multiple attackers with knives. IMO New York city's ultra strict gun laws are leaving this community wide open to further attacks from their violent neighbors.

    As usual scott you have your facts incorrect. The incident happend in Monsey, NY which is an area nowhere near New York City. The sullivan law does not
    cover rockland county, in fact in that area there is no permit required for any long gun, rifle or shotgun. Try your best to get it right next time.
    Not so fast!

    So I was incorrect about it not being inside of New York City. When I talked about "being armed" I was referring to handguns, not long guns, which are illegal to carry for defensive purposes in most jurisdictions.

    So in this case "being armed" means a concealed carry permit, which is apparently even harder to get in Rockland County than in Massachusetts.

    Here is a link to the official web page. A quick look at documents indicates that in addition to other requirements an applicant must get written permission from all household members on a form that must be notarized. If the person lives alone they must certify that on a different form that must be notarized.

    The applicant must also authorize the release of medical records AND the permit is only good for a specific firearm which must be listed on the application form.

    Also, except for certain cases, all firearms permits become public information, which might be a security concern for some.

    County of Rockland, New York :: Pistol Licenses


    Here is a 2004 discussion from a gun owner's forum started by an orthodox man considering a move to Monsey and concerned about maintaining his gun rights. The response indicates not only that the process of obtaining a license was getting tighter but that a concealed carry permit was unlikely to be issued. I wonder if any of those present at that stabbing had wanted a permit and been refused. I stand by my assertion that strict gun laws risk more lives than they save.

    Does anyone know how good/bad for guns Monsey (Rockland County) NY is? | The High Road

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    You can make up all the reasons you want, but the basic facts are this

    In Texas the murder rate in 2018 was 4.6 per 100k
    In New York it was 2.9

    You are over 1.5 times more likely to be murdered in 'safe' Texas than in NY

    The gun death rate[2016] in Texas: 12.1

    New York: 4.4

    You are nearly 3 [2.75x]times more likely to be killed by a firearm in Texas than in New York

    More guns do not make you safer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    You can make up all the reasons you want, but the basic facts are this

    In Texas the murder rate in 2018 was 4.6 per 100k
    In New York it was 2.9

    You are over 1.5 times more likely to be murdered in 'safe' Texas than in NY

    The gun death rate[2016] in Texas: 12.1

    New York: 4.4

    You are nearly 3 [2.75x]times more likely to be killed by a firearm in Texas than in New York

    More guns do not make you safer.
    You've ran circles around this the whole thread. When I posted CDC data you claimed it wasn't good enough.

    WHY were those people murdered? What circumstances were they murdered? Post the cause of death. It shows a completely different story.

    The laws in those respective states in relationship to firearms have very little to do with the related deaths.

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  22. #2074
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    blah blah blah

    guns do not save lives

    over and over the data shows that 'free gun' states are less safe than gun control states,

    That is the CDC data

    but don't let reality get in the way

  23. #2075
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    2017
    State gunOwnership Firearm rate deaths Firearm RATE DEATHS Homicide RATE DEATHS Pop
    New York 0.103 5.3 1,019 3.7 772 3 577 19491339
    New York Intentional self-harm by handgun discharge X72 White 26
    New York Intentional self-harm by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge X73 White 97
    New York Intentional self-harm by other and unspecified firearm discharge X74 Black or African American 30
    New York Intentional self-harm by other and unspecified firearm discharge X74 White 271
    New York Assault by other and unspecified firearm discharge X95 Black or African American 201
    New York Assault by other and unspecified firearm discharge X95 White 92

    State gunOwnership Firearm rate deaths Firearm RATE DEATHS Homicide RATE DEATHS Pop
    Texas 0.357 11.1 2,490 12.4 3,513 5.8 1,653 29087070
    Texas Intentional self-harm by handgun discharge X72 Black or African American 16
    Texas Intentional self-harm by handgun discharge X72 White 209
    Texas Intentional self-harm by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge X73 Black or African American 12
    Texas Intentional self-harm by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge X73 White 182
    Texas Intentional self-harm by other and unspecified firearm discharge X74 Asian or Pacific Islander 29
    Texas Intentional self-harm by other and unspecified firearm discharge X74 Black or African American 115
    Texas Intentional self-harm by other and unspecified firearm discharge X74 White 1577
    Texas Assault by handgun discharge X93 Black or African American 15
    Texas Assault by handgun discharge X93 White 31
    Texas Assault by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge X94 Black or African American 13
    Texas Assault by rifle, shotgun and larger firearm discharge X94 White 41
    Texas Assault by other and unspecified firearm discharge X95 Black or African American 488
    Texas Assault by other and unspecified firearm discharge X95 White 655
    Texas Other and unspecified firearm discharge, undetermined intent Y24 White 22
    Texas Legal intervention involving firearm discharge Y35.0 Black or African American 10
    Texas Legal intervention involving firearm discharge Y35.0 White 27

    Next question is, does New York State and Local agencies have the same reporting follow through that Texas does?

    From the law enforcement I know locally, only a few agencies report to the federal government, and at least one I know of for sure does not report anything to the CDC. I suppose I would need to ask the County Coroner if they report cause of death statistics to the CDC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post

    That is the CDC data

    but don't let reality get in the way
    I've spent a fair amount of time looking at the CDC data, I am quite aware of the reality and your distorted view of it. Take a look at intentional self harm in new york state. The deaths are still there, just shifted to a different cause.

    New York Intentional self-harm by hanging, strangulation and suffocation X70 White 557
    New York Intentional self-harm by other and unspecified firearm discharge X74 White 271
    New York Intentional self-harm by jumping from a high place X80 White 108

    Hmmmm these deaths don't seem to show at the same proportion in Texas?
    New York Accidental poisoning by and exposure to narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens], not elsewhere classified X42 Black or African American 397
    New York Accidental poisoning by and exposure to narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens], not elsewhere classified X42 White 1605
    New York Accidental poisoning by and exposure to other and unspecified drugs, medicaments and biological substances X44 White 1215

    If you take all the FORMs of death and average them out between the two states, they are not very different. The people in those states are simply choosing a different way to die, or murder. Reality is pretty straight forward, you should try it sometime.

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    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3466911]
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    My comments ere about the possibility of serious injury if you somehow get too close to one.

    +1, that is one of the scariest personal experiences I ever had. [1] Was hiking with my mom in the woods, a large wild hog
    was trotting along the trail towards. My mom asked 'can you climb a tree," to which I replied "I sure can right now."
    Fortunately the animal showed little interest in us and trotted on by.

    [1] yes scarier than that one with the alligator and the stalled jeep....
    Not sure what you are referencing, but have you ever been close to an alligator? Those things are scary, 6-10' long, 1/3 of that all jaws and teeth! And if they don't outright maul you to death, good chance you will drown trying to get away.

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    [QUOTE=Mike1974;3467002]
    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post

    Not sure what you are referencing, but have you ever been close to an alligator? Those things are scary, 6-10' long, 1/3 of that all jaws and teeth! And if they don't outright maul you to death, good chance you will drown trying to get away.
    Close to an alligator? Do I look stupid to you?

    As I teen I once talked to a guy who raised snakes and gators. He said a three foot gator clamped down on a heavily gloved hand and it felt like a car door slammed shut on his hand. I've never forgotten that and while I've actually handled several non-venomous snakes over the years you couldn't get me near to a venomous one. Too afraid of the consequences from the sharp end. Quite a few decades ago I was visiting the London zoo and when a king cobra on the other side of the glass reared up with hood flared and stared at me with those cold eyes I started backing away quickly. As far as I'm concerned there is no glass thick enough to make me feel comfortable that close.

    I've actually draped a small boa around me like a sash under the supervision of its handler but pythons of any size are not something I want to get up close and personal with.

    I have a lot of respect for wild animals. Quite a few of them kill for a living.

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  28. #2079
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    Dance Dance Dance

    BS BS BS

    the majority of murders are by firearm


    by far more murders in Texas

    More gun murders in Texas, despite it being a free gun state

    dance dance dance

    BS BS BS

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Dance Dance Dance

    BS BS BS

    the majority of murders are by firearm


    by far more murders in Texas

    More gun murders in Texas, despite it being a free gun state

    dance dance dance

    BS BS BS
    No one has mentioned dancing except for you. You want to ignore the world around you and fixate on one cause while espousing a higher intellect.

    Look at crime statistics for New York in the past decades. Compare to New York of today. What possibly could have changed?
    Look at crime statistics for Texas in the past decades. Compare to Texas of today. What possibly could have changed?

    You are so humorous to me, this is your version of intellectual discussion. I cannot imagine why the democratic party is floundering.


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