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    Quote Originally Posted by metal-ica View Post
    As a libertarian I've been one that wants almost no restrictions on guns but it appears as a society we can't handle that responsibility. The asshole in Ohio killed 9 people in less than a minute. The douche-bag in Gilroy drove to Nevada to buy his AK to avoid California back ground checks. The cock sucker in Las Vegas had an unbelievable arsenal. Those poor kids at Sandy Hook were the age my daughter is now and the dickhead got his gun from his mom (and killed her). Sadly, I'm to the point where the high caliber weapons need to be banned and confiscated.
    you are not a libertarian

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Perhaps gun use training should be in every school.
    "Schools?" Where would one find the time slot without having to reduce "Irresponsibility 101" or "How to be an effective ANTIFA thug?

    I'd vote for universal home-schooling. Firearms safety but one course of many.

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    A moral people have no need for excess laws because they don't take life, liberty, cause injury etc. People of sound character are not going to off the deep end, they will have rational discussions among each other.

    That being said. I found this on the web.

    "Responsible gun owners want gun criminals to be swiftly and harshly punished. Leftists want responsible gun owners punished and gun criminals to be hugged." end quote....

    If we actually punished people using rule of law instead of using emotional response to dictate, who is the guilty party.

    Do we then, hold them responsible for all the perceived wrongs that a particular group could be guilty of?

    A person gets a DUI do we charge him with a manslaughter, even if non occurred?

    The rational that a gun is responsible and not the person behind it is madness. Using the same logic the person with the DUI isn't guilty, the car is. We should ban vehicles.

    We exercise and sanction violence in movies, on TV, video games, music

    If you train kids with the TV, who is to say that the norm isn't violence?

    A trash in, trash out mentality.

    Is it moral, the things we find entertaining?

    We currently live in a world that allows killing the unborn, allows euthanization of the handicap, elderly, starvation to kill patients and other things for the "quality of life".

    What could be next?

    It's only logical to see that if the insanity continues we'll all be living in sugar coated reality , because the truth will offend us or even worse the truth will hurt.

    I'll end with this.

    I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.
    Keep up the good work!

    I am pleased to grant you a season pass!


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  7. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Well... it is also a ludicrous fantasy to think it could be DONE.

    More law enforcement agencies, nationwide, than not are on the side of an armed citizenry They KNOW FIRSTHAND who the people are, and that they respect and support - even now and then assist - their police forces.

    No US military is ever going to go out on a mission to disarm law-abiding citizens.
    The real problem wouldn't be whether or not they would actually try to confiscate them but that such a law would instantly confer criminal status on otherwise law-abiding citizens if they refused to "turn them in". The whole concept of outlawing firearms and then demanding "mandatory buybacks" is very much a socialist ideal.

    No law-abiding citizen should ever be put in fear of arrest and prosecution because a new law passed ex post facto criminalizes RETENTION of legally purchased property.

    I'll give a real world example from my state (Massachusetts).

    Current law requires either an FID card or Firearms License (LTC) to even possess firearms inside of your own home. Without this government issued permission a previously licensed individual can be prosecuted for illegal possession even within the home.

    Several years back there was a huge backlog of licenses being processed. Although the law says applications and renewals must be either issued or denied within 40 days people were waiting months. The law provided for a 90 day Grace Period after the license expires as long as the renewal was submitted prior to expiration. Some were kept waiting so long even the Grace Period had expired. A woman in her 70s that I know was among those. Fortunately her husband's license was still valid.

    In my own case the delay ran over 5 months and I was approaching the end of the Grace Period. The matter was only resolved after I sought legal assistance. Those of you who live in more benign states can't imagine the awful feeling of being almost placed at risk of criminal prosecution due to bureaucratic delay.

    In 2014 the legislature amended the law after numerous complaints from constituents. The amended law extends the grace period indefinitely until the license is either renewed or revoked. Long waits are still common but at least the fear of prosecution is gone.

    This is the kind of "reasonable, common sense" system gun control advocates would like to inflicted on the entire country. Regardless of whether or not they actually tried mass confiscation a single encounter with police or other government workers could result in prosecution. A simple medical emergency at home could initiate such contact. Guns locked in a safe? No matter as they can and have demanded safes be opened "for their safety".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    The real problem wouldn't be whether or not they would actually try to confiscate them but that such a law would instantly confer criminal status on otherwise law-abiding citizens if they refused to "turn them in".
    No. It does not.

    Taxatwoshits is the violater. Of the Constitution of the United States. For a very long time already. On several counts. Seceded from America full half a century before the Kalifornicyah SSR found a way to cross-breed fascism, Marxism, and triple-distilled stupidity into a joke no one laughs at any longer. They are beating feet, instead.

    You put up with that. Yes. YOU.

    Every nation gets the government it deserves.
    Liberty is as close as your car keys.

    Cost of Living Comparison Between Ashburn, VA, United States And Boston, MA, United States

    Mind.. "recruiting" a tad. Official 2.9% unemployment or no, Loudoun County, Virginia is commonly about 40,000 folks SHORT of being able to fill the open job slots we have...even after importing commuters from WBGVA and Maryland.



    We / I do not put up with it.

    Sic semper tyrannis

    G'Dad^9th was hanged for actually implementing that motto. Virginia was 56 years in being, but would not itself adopt if for another 116 years.

    Had the last laugh, anyway, the "finest Cavalryman in all of Europe" did.

    Charles I was already 11 years dead. And remained so. Nor did an English Monarch ever again dare to "make war on parliament".

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    A moral people have no need for excess laws because they don't take life, liberty, cause injury etc. People of sound character are not going to off the deep end, they will have rational discussions among each other.
    Agreed, and I can see it's a waste to "Cast my pearls before swine" by pointing out the real cure, beyond quoting John Adams;

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

    What he didn't need to say was that NO legal system will do for atheists, as they bear within themselves the seeds of their own destruction.

    But many of us do not deserve their fate, myself and most patriots included.

    I guess I did some "casting", but Christ is the answer, and I have as much right to say that as any atheist has to say I don't!

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    A little comedy to lighten the mood:


    In downtown Pittsburgh two women were stabbed. One died and the other is in stable condition at last report. Over on the other side of the country, a 33-year-old Hispanic man in Santa Ana, CA, went on a two-hour stabbing spree. Four people are dead and two wounded. Back on the East Coast, with horrified patrons as a backdrop, a man walked into a nail salon in Queens, NY and plunged a knife into his wife’s back over and over until she lay dead on the floor. All this in just a couple of days in America.

    Time For Knife-Control
    It’s obvious the time has come for a national knife control bill. Since we must legislate all weapons based on their usage, it is vital that at the very least we begin background checks on those who want to purchase knives. The suspect in California, after all, had a criminal record.

    Progressive retailers across America sprang into action. Within hours of the nationwide epidemic of stabbings, Williams-Sonoma, Sur La Table, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and the kitchen departments in Macy’s, Kohl’s, and Target began removing kitchen knives from the shelves.

    Executives from Walmart HQ said they are seriously considering taking similar action.

    Meanwhile on Capitol Hill – and flanked by fellow members of the Democratic Party – Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) held a press conference calling for a national ban on knives. “If it means eating our watermelon whole and cutting our meat with plastic, then Democrats plan to lead the way to a more safe and secure America.” After Pelosi spoke, she graciously yielded the microphone to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY). “I am proud to be the one who stopped J.A. Henckels from relocating to New York City. No amount of jobs is worth trading for American lives,” she said.

    On the campaign trail, Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-TX) said he plans to publish the names of every national knife manufacturer CEO who does not take immediate action to restrict knife sales. Castro then took to Twitter, saying, “People need to know who is willing to sell knives and who is not. It’s a matter of national safety. Anyone selling knives without thorough background checks should be shamed for putting profits above lives. As such, I am calling for people all over this great nation of ours to rise, boycott and protest #walmart, @dickssportinggoods and #acehardware.”

    Not to be outdone, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) pointed out that the Cherokee Nation stopped using knives generations ago and that she plans to donate to the National Indigenous Women’s Resource Center to honor the fallen. Then, while at a campaign stop at Chipotle in Iowa, Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) said, “Under my watch, New Jersey was the first state in the union to call for rigorous blade background checks.”

    On the South Lawn of the White House, the press corps gathered to get a reaction regarding the stabbing frenzy from the president. CNN’s Jim Acosta could be heard shouting over the whirring blades of Marine One, “Mr. President, in light of the recent spate of stabbings, do you support a national knife ban?” President Trump responded, “Knives? I have always liked knives, especially when I’m eating steak.”

    This comment set off a firestorm from the Fourth Estate, with The New York Times out in front of the pack. Just before deadline for their failing print edition, editors put up a front-page article entitled “Trump Says Steak Comes First – American Lives Second.”

    This caused the Portland, OR, ANTIFA Chapter to don their masks and take to the streets, where police stood by as concrete milkshakes were thrown at the CEO of Cuisinart, owner of the Knife Center based in Oregon. A shaken Steel M. Blade was taken to the hospital following the melee. He is reported in stable condition.

    Meanwhile, in Fairfax, VA, at the headquarters of the National Knife Association, angry protesters swarmed the building. Fairfax County police were called to the scene to put those inside the NKA on lock-down until they could clear the area.

    Do Americans have a right to own knives? Should extensive background checks regarding the criminal records and mental health of potential knife buyers become law? These are the crucial questions flooding the airwaves of the nation. Ultimately, it comes down to whether Americans are willing to rip meat from the bone with their bare hands or be permitted to cut it in with a knife in a civil way.

    Only time will tell.

    ~

    Editor: This article is a parody. The truth is in the joke. As Mel Brooks once said: “Humor is just another defense against the universe.”

    Stabbings on the Rise: National Knife Ban Gains Momentum - Liberty Nation

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  15. #209
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    Chicago, of all places. 1974, ROTC in high school. Full firearms training and marksmanship training. In the basement of the school itself. No one got shot. Who today would think that could happen? What has happened is today's parent became pussified, afraid of their own shadows and can't even imagine letting their children learn respect and safety while handling a firearm. Even with the 2A, I believe anyone wanting to buy a firearm should be made to take firearm safety training. That's it. The only rule. Get trained. I was taught by my brother in law. My mother wanted to have nothing to do with it. But she didn't stop me because she knew the person training me was qualified. Viet Nam vet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    I am not in the ban all at all cost crowd, I advocate that if you have to have one, prove three things, the absolute need, the qualifications you have to operate one, and the insurance to cover liability. Oh, BTW I also want public information that you have one. If you violate any of that you are banished from getting one forever. If you just simply want one you are not qualified to own one. And I do not care what one is if you proved all three things.

    dee
    ;-D
    What you advocate is for a New York City style system. Only very wealthy, very well connected people can obtain a firearms license there.

    "Need" is not an American concept. We aren't supposed to have to provide justification for owning anything. Instead the government is supposed to show cause to deny.

    Training is not a bad thing as long as requirements are reasonable and the bar is not set too high to justify refusing most. However, several of my neighboring states allow possession of long guns with no license requirements. Vermont does not even require a permit to carry handguns either openly or concealed.

    Requiring insurance for gun ownership sounds reasonable until you explore how it would work in real life. A carrier that sold other insurance products could easily be intimidated into not insuring gun owners. This is EXACTLY what was done to the NRA's Carry Guard program.

    Public information about gun owners? That puts you at odds with even the very liberal Massachusetts legislature. The names of licensees are held private by law with serious penalties for violations. This does 2 things; it prevents criminals from knowing where to steal guns and it keeps burglars and home invaders guessing who is a safe target and who isn't. I've offered people "Gun Free Home" stickers to display and even the most anti-gun have declined.

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    I carry a 3 1/2 inch blade buck knife must all the time and use it very often/daily. It is just a tool

    In my car often a cased 5' hunting knife and a 7 or 8' survival knife with having a saw on the backside..
    I have never thought of a knife as a weapon.

    I remember reading that in china or japan all weapons were outlawed, so the people trained themselves to use the stick for carrying water buckets as a weapon..soon that was more deadly than a knife or sword.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    I carry a 3 1/2 inch blade buck knife must all the time and use it very often/daily. It is just a tool

    In my car often a cased 5' hunting knife and a 7 or 8' survival knife with having a saw on the backside..
    I have never thought of a knife as a weapon
    Sadly it is a different story in London. From a commenter on the knife link above:

    London Mayor Sadiq Khan announced a crackdown on knives Sunday in response to the rising levels of violence in London, which recently surpassed New York City’s homicide rate for the first time.

    ‘No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife,’ Khan tweeted. ‘Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law.’…

    Guns are strictly regulated in the United Kingdom and the rising homicide rate in London is directly attributable to a rise in knife-related crimes, with stabbings claiming at least 31 lives to date in 2018. By contrast, New York—which has a population roughly the same size as London—has seen a steady decline in violent crime.

    There were 15 murders committed in London in February and another 22 in March, while New York saw 14 murders in February and 21 in March, according to murder rate statistics provided…by London’s Metropolitan Police and the New York Police Department.

    But this is not a parody. It’s a real news report, which goes on to describe Britain’s existing knife control laws.

    In Britain, it is currently illegal to carry a knife longer than three inches in public ‘without good reason’ and illegally carrying a knife can be punished with up to four years in prison and an ‘unlimited fine.’ Self-defense is not listed among the examples of ‘good reasons to carry a knife.’

    Link again:
    Stabbings on the Rise: National Knife Ban Gains Momentum - Liberty Nation
    Link to UK laws on knives:
    Selling, buying and carrying knives - GOV.UK

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  22. #213
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    OT post # 212...[‘No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife,’ Khan tweeted. ‘Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law.’]…

    I would like to see that guy chew through a 3/8" nylon rope..But wait nobody should ever need a rope..or need to cut one.

    Seems the world is run by dopes.

    Oh: Likely that dope would say....One should just go to the store and buy a rope the proper size.

    He is a real dope..Muslim mayor of London to Americans: Get used to terrorism

    Sorry to say but with Scouting, hunting and fishing my most often use of a knife is cutting a rope.

    Guess I could carry a wood chisel if knives are out made against the law

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    Quote Originally Posted by LockNut View Post
    Chicago, of all places. 1974, ROTC in high school. Full firearms training and marksmanship training. In the basement of the school itself. No one got shot. Who today would think that could happen? What has happened is today's parent became pussified, afraid of their own shadows and can't even imagine letting their children learn respect and safety while handling a firearm. Even with the 2A, I believe anyone wanting to buy a firearm should be made to take firearm safety training. That's it. The only rule. Get trained. I was taught by my brother in law. My mother wanted to have nothing to do with it. But she didn't stop me because she knew the person training me was qualified. Viet Nam vet.
    Some folk might choke over how well trained their mild-mannered neighbours are.

    Then again, we are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

    'Fraid they shall just have to become accustomed to choking over that part 'til a week or three after the twelfth of forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    you are not a libertarian
    And he has no idea what "high caliber" means.
    A

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    And he has no idea what "high caliber" means.
    A
    Obviously.

    For the edification of him and others who think the standard AR-15 cartridge is some kind of super caliber.

    The cartridge you describe (parroting the media) as high power or high caliber is second from the right (#5) in this photo. On the far left is the mighty .50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun) and numbers 2 and 3 are common hunting cartridges .300 Magnum and .308 Winchester.

    330px-rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg

    Source: Table of handgun and rifle cartridges - Wikipedia

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    It's not paranoia when governments have a history of abusing a disarmed populace. Hell, look at what the US did to the American Indian. It rounded them up and forced them into largest concentration camp on the planet- Oklahoma. And after that, we had internment camps for the Japanese during WWII.

    Let's not forget what a true totalitarian govt (Stalin, Hitler, Mao) can accomplish. It's estimated that 100,000,000 people died at the hands of such institutions, US gun deaths are a rounding error in comparison.

    I'll continue to keep the best defense I can acquire to prevent something similar to happening on US soil again.

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    I don't subscribe to any of the conspiracy shit but the authorities have brought some of this on them selves. When the cretin shot up the school in Connecticut we were told that all casualties were from the pistols that he had. 12 hours later they were from the "assault rifle". I don't doubt that many would rather that be the case so that they can whine about "assault weapons" again.
    The Las Vegas case has a LOT of questions. I see the number of rifles as anywhere from 21 to 27. Regardless, how do you get that many rifles and however much ammunition ( some have said 20,000 rounds)to that room? Supposedly he had removed the hard drive from his computer and his communications could not be traced. Now the FBI can get and renew multiple fraudulent FISA warrants to harrass Trump. Why can't they get one to get the meta data on this guy? Find out who he emailed and called and talk to them.Why not? It does not appear to me that his primary mission was to kill people. He used a sub standard cartridge and rifle at a long range to shoot how many people? You can find numbers from the 400s to 800 in reports. the lowest total is around 500 so this guy shot all these people and barely killed 10% of them. He could have killed more with a bolt action 30 caliber rifle. Obviously this is not the best thinker at work but his actions were more senseless than most of these nuts. The apparent lack of determination to get to the bottom of this bothers me. Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Obviously.

    For the edification of him and others who think the standard AR-15 cartridge is some kind of super caliber.
    Flat enough shooter at decent range, but basically a "varmint round", the .223 / 5.56 NATO. Think Prairie Dog, Gophers, Woodchucks, Fox, Coyote, Wild dogs. Not even legal out here for Whitetail deer (wants minimum .25 cal & centerfire).

    The 7.62 NATO // .308 Win, grandchildren of venerable .300 Savage, is about the middle of the many and varied tribes of America's "deer rifles". Good enough for Moose or the great bears, but only just barely, so a bit daring a choice.

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    You are 100% correct when you say "the authorities have brought some of this on them selves". Not only did the official story change completely but also the bizarre behavior of the medical examiner and state cop at that press conference. Add in the jackass who lied about sheltering children at his house and it's easy to see how some people see a conspiracy rather than "spin".

    The Las Vegas case is even stranger. After pushing the LVPD aside and confiscating all the evidence the feds come up with no motive and too many unanswered questions.

    One answer as to how so many weapons got into a hotel in security conscious Vegas is that the upper floors were reportedly owned by a member of a foreign royal family who allowed his private elevator to be used. Shortly after the incident in Vegas there was a wave of arrests in his home country. Connected or coincidence - who knows?

    One bit of fake news that was widely reported was that the alleged perpetrator was a "professional gambler". That's absolute BS because in the age of casinos it's impossible to have a long-term win ratio higher than the mid to upper 90s. The odds are such (by design) that the house always has a slight edge long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    I don't subscribe to any of the conspiracy shit but the authorities have brought some of this on them selves. When the cretin shot up the school in Connecticut we were told that all casualties were from the pistols that he had. 12 hours later they were from the "assault rifle". I don't doubt that many would rather that be the case so that they can whine about "assault weapons" again.
    The Las Vegas case has a LOT of questions. I see the number of rifles as anywhere from 21 to 27. Regardless, how do you get that many rifles and however much ammunition ( some have said 20,000 rounds)to that room? Supposedly he had removed the hard drive from his computer and his communications could not be traced. Now the FBI can get and renew multiple fraudulent FISA warrants to harrass Trump. Why can't they get one to get the meta data on this guy? Find out who he emailed and called and talk to them.Why not? It does not appear to me that his primary mission was to kill people. He used a sub standard cartridge and rifle at a long range to shoot how many people? You can find numbers from the 400s to 800 in reports. the lowest total is around 500 so this guy shot all these people and barely killed 10% of them. He could have killed more with a bolt action 30 caliber rifle. Obviously this is not the best thinker at work but his actions were more senseless than most of these nuts. The apparent lack of determination to get to the bottom of this bothers me. Why not?


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