What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 18
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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    We have been discussing two different types of murderer here. One is the unhappy kid who shoots up a school and the other is gangbangers. To deal with the kid, we need a way to positively identify them, not an easy task. With the gangbangers, the violence has always been there. When I was a teenager, it was all about knives, I think mainly because the guns they were able to get were such poor quality. Now they have new ones, which come from somewhere. There is a pipeline somewhere. In 307 posts, no one has said where that is.

    Bill
    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    You forgot the angry white guys with guns. This is the apparent issue right now. Does not matter where the pipeline starts, it stops when
    large numbers of innocent citizens show up at hospitals looking like battlefield combatants. There is no way you can change this, no way
    This is who the quotes belong to, for some reason it shows Bill, 9100 as making the angry white guy comment when quoting jim rozen??

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    This is who the quotes belong to, for some reason it shows Bill, 9100 as making the angry white guy comment when quoting jim rozen??
    Keep up the good work. Fixing even already bustid quotes ain't that hard.

    I'll try to sell rations of the creative use of "whitespace", over to MY lemonade stand, then.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 9finger View Post
    NFA of 1934, GCA of 1968, (wildly illegal, supported by the NRA traitors) Hugh's Amendment of 1968 disagree with you, as do I, but respectfully. And hopefully it comes across as such. It does crack me up though that on a machinist forum people can advocate for adding laws for guns. Most of us have everything we need to build them from scratch...
    Only half-seriously, I'd be fine if every wanna-be Rambo had to first learn machining or some other productive task, then earn enough to equip a shop, and finally design and build their own gun. That would likely be as good a test of fitness of ownership as trying to figure who's raging out of control or mentally ill. Your average angry loser would struggle (as they did when I was a kid) to make a single shot .22 zip gun.

    One of the dynamics about the gun debate that seems unappreciated to me is the difference between rural and city cultures.

    Something like 97% of this nation's land is "rural" - but less than 20% of our people live there. I grew up straddling (and liking) both cultures. In a rural state, you're likely to grow up hunting, learning how to safely handle and shoot a gun. You may have real needs to take down farm predators. Clay, skeet, trap, and target shooting beat golf and bowling as sports. Something like a shotgun and a rifle, right along with a couple chainsaws, are well regarded tools. Rather than lust after the latest PlayStation to play shooter games, kids lust after a cooler rifle to actually shoot. I know I did. And, in terms of personal and home security, the nearest authorities may be an hour away. Guns (though not some military weapons) make sense in that environment.

    In cities, there might be not much more than pigeons and rats around as either predators or for hunting -- and shooting them on every city block usually doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The gun owners are drug dealers and the occasional would-be Rambo. People see kids dying every day -- including kids hit in drive-by shootings, kids accidentally shooting each other, and the increasing number of raging attacks at schools, churches, movie theaters, and malls.

    There's a reason there's a rural-urban divide on this -- and we ought to find solutions that respect the lives of both.

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  5. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Keep up the good work. Fixing even already bustid quotes ain't that hard.

    I'll try to sell rations of the creative use of "whitespace", over to MY lemonade stand, then.

    Thanks, I was just surprised to have quoted rozen and 9100 showed up as saying what rozen did? Took a minute to figure out that rozen left of the end quote and it all kind of morphed into one post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    What is going on with the quotes? I'm getting credit for Jim's diatribes. The system has started including the last 2 quotes and not separating them.

    GGaskill, where are you?

    Bill

    No, just jim rozen did not include the end quote when he quoted you.
    I saw that and tried to post the proper quotes to each of you so it makes sense. Post #341

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Thanks, I was just surprised to have quoted rozen and 9100 showed up as saying what rozen did? Took a minute to figure out that rozen left of the end quote and it all kind of morphed into one post.
    Jim has only been doing that for something under a full ice-age. Threads as are technical, rather than confrontational, matters much less. Folks just sort it mentally and leave him be.

  8. #347
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    I do not support eroding the 2nd.

    I am not buying the fatherless child meme...if that were the case surely we would be nearly extinct in the aftermath of the wars of the first 3/4 of the 20th century.

    I can however see the argument attributing a sizable part of the "blame" on glorification and desensitization.

    after my first hunting kill, I got the talk about how we would honor the beast by not wasting it, therefore it did not die in vain.

    might have been a lesson in that.

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    18 pages, zero solutions. About as productive as politics can get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9finger View Post
    18 pages, zero solutions. About as productive as politics can get.
    18

    The topic is not about politics

    Read the header again. What can WE do as individuals?

    If we continue to leave it to others, nothing can save us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    No. He's just acting stupid on half-shifts by choice for the entertainment value.
    Harmless enough, so long as it is just an act.
    Yes I guess I confused "anger" for "easily offended/triggered" in him (millend),
    I appologise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GGaskill View Post
    First thing we can do is stop referring to "gun" violence. Murder is murder no matter what is used for the killing. Suicides are self-imposed and should not be conflated with murders. Suicides make up about a third of deaths attributed to firearms.

    Some time ago, the Warren Court prohibited incarcerating people for mental health reasons unless they had committed a crime. Unintended consequences? Maybe, maybe not. Too many shrinks see their job as making patients "feel good." Hence, a drug prescription is given. But drugs don't work the same for all patients.

    Taking guns away from people who are not the problem will not stop the problem, but will make it easier for a future dictator to achieve power.

    Personally, I believe it is time to divide the country into socialist and free states and let the socialists do their thing and watch them go down. The alternative will be messy.
    BINGO - Im tired of "gun" violence. None of our politicians want to face Violence head first.
    No mention of Pharmaceutical Psycotropic drugs in play. Leaves out pure Anger and Evil.
    Tired of the ban this and bam that crowd.
    If those groups are hell bent on gun bans to stop violence then they should have no problem deporting all ILLEGAL imergrants. They would stop pandering to drug addicts , would limit vehicle speeds to 50mph , up the drivin g age , would have death penalty for DRs who make mistakes killing some 200,000 people each year, would double or triple the penalty for Law Makers, LEO and judges who violate laws. In the end its only a power grab. Un armed people are less likely to fight back.

    i want ONE thing from our elected officials
    UP HOLD and DEFEND the Constitution. PERIOD.
    We as free people can not let ourselves become completely defenseless against a armed standing gov/army
    Its bad enough many of our elected officials and LEO dont live up to thier oaths....if free people are not armed the Constitution truely just becomes a piece of paper

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  15. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9finger View Post
    18 pages, zero solutions. About as productive as politics can get.
    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    18

    The topic is not about politics

    Read the header again. What can WE do as individuals?

    If we continue to leave it to others, nothing can save us.
    But we do now know that something needs to be done to make white guys with guns happy, so maybe some progress is being made??

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    [QUOTE=thermite;3397353]
    Jim's winding hisself up...

    Nope -don't care. Just pointing out again and again that Bill pursues a fool's errand. Issue cannot be
    fixed in the US now,given the politics. Probably not ever. And the manifold hand-wringing about
    (gasp) gun laws, more nothingburger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Jim has only been doing that for something under a full ice-age. Threads as are technical, rather than confrontational, matters much less. Folks just sort it mentally and leave him be.
    I see what you mean.

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    Simple solution: point out statistics that show majority of gun deaths are suicide or gang related. Other than that, be ready to fight for your rights. Sad thing is only a handful of guys were involved with the Boston tea party, even though the tax affected a huge number of citizens

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    “I'm not a conspiracy advocate...” - Froneck #312

    Froneck, of course you are.
    And failure to be honest and accurate is one of the greatest impediments to problem solving.

    “abuse by law enforcement that are anti-gun”
    “requesting the State Police to re-fingerprint me. They refused!”
    “FBI and law enforcement were informed about possible shooting yet did nothing”
    “I'm sure there is some site that promotes this behavior if not openly but gathers groups of crazies and single out a few that are stupid enough to preform what is suggested buy others which may be those that want gun control!”
    “Kinda interesting nothing is ever found. Hmmm same FBI that has been politically corrupted??”
    “my HS aged son knew (of public drug trafficking), the police didn't??”
    “new information about the Kennedy assassination”

    Every one of these statements hints at, if not exposes, a conspiracy theory.
    And I did not single you out to expose you as a hypocrite, as I agree with all of your other statements.
    I simply wish to point out that honest people do not control the language, the debate or the reporting media.
    And anytime “they” want to keep you from telling the truth, they will call you names.
    You will be called a conspiracy theorist, a racist, a sexist, an anti-semite and a whole host of other invectives.
    Man up and get used to it. It is the price for telling the truth.

    I do believe that there is a conspiracy to raise your taxes, extort your money, monitor your communications, sell you inferior goods and... confiscate your guns!
    So, Let it be known that when someone calls me these names, it is simply because they want to attack me personally instead of discussing the issues.

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  22. #357
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    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3397408]
    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Jim's winding hisself up...

    Nope -don't care. Just pointing out again and again that Bill pursues a fool's errand. Issue cannot be
    fixed in the US now,given the politics. Probably not ever. And the manifold hand-wringing about
    (gasp) gun laws, more nothingburger.
    And I point out again and again that you are making a fool's response and ignoring a few simple facts.

    We are not up against a natural law. We are not trying to travel faster than light. This is a behavioral problem, meaning that the perpetrator is choosing this behavior. The conscious mind may not be in control, but the organism as a whole is making that choice. At the same time, hundreds of millions of the same basic organism are not making that choice, so it is demonstrably possible to avoid that behavior.

    Disarming them while learning the reasons for that behavior may be a useful palliative, but is certainly not the long term answer.

    For example, there have been studies of Romanian orphans who were warehoused in government facilities. They found that simply stacking them up and feeding them occasionally did permanent psychological damage, which they never recovered from if that treatment had continued for two years or more. It is possible to work with them and get them to a point where they can function as independent citizens, but they are never really normal. It might be possible to find such a key to the angry white men's pasts. Or it may be a genetic flaw that we cannot cure and the victims need to be institutionalized. I don't know the answer. If I did, I would be filling out grant forms and not wasting my time arguing here.

    An artist friend was asked to produce some African style art. She researched the subject and concluded that a white woman could not work in a black man's head and gave the job to a black art teacher at a local college. In the process, she found that in the area, Massai and Luo country, young men were required to do in effect military service, protecting the village until they were 25, then they could marry and raise cattle or whatever. She was struck by the similarity to "ghetto" men who defended their turf, often fatally until, about 25 and then went on to other activities. Can this behavior be inherited or passed down through generations in a land where it was not needed? Can it be that an obsolete behavior is still manifesting itself with disastrous results?

    Until you can definitely answer these questions, stop wasting server memory telling me it is a lost cause.

    Bill

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  24. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    Simple solution: point out statistics that show majority of gun deaths are suicide or gang related. Other than that, be ready to fight for your rights. Sad thing is only a handful of guys were involved with the Boston tea party, even though the tax affected a huge number of citizens
    It is my understanding that there were a number of similar incidents; that one was just the one that got the ink, maybe because the men dressed up like Indians.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    We are not up against a natural law.
    Respectfully, that is incorrect. Angry white guys will never give up their guns. Existing crop
    of politicians will not change any laws. It's a done deal, you need to get over this. And I used
    *less* server space than you did!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Respectfully, that is incorrect. Angry white guys will never give up their guns. Existing crop
    of politicians will not change any laws. It's a done deal, you need to get over this. And I used
    *less* server space than you did!
    They never will if no one tries to find and rectify the source of their anger. The first election I took much interest in was Truman-Dewey. Since then I have watched the pendulum swing back and forth. The existing crop is only until the next election.

    True, but I tried to make it meaningful content.

    Bill


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