What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 67 FirstFirst 12341252 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 1334
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3337
    Likes (Received)
    3542

    Default

    QT Rob F post #2 [My simple mind just goes to enforce the laws we already have.]

    Agree but that is not working. I have three assualt type guns (SKS, China)brand new still in the factory box.. Hate to get them taken. plus my hunting guns and two hand guns not often used.
    "How can we stop nut case people from buying guns?"
    "How to stop nut case people from using another persons gun?"

    I support concealed carry...but don't do that myself..not even in bear country like my kellyroadcamp.
    Perhaps new gun buyers/users need a a reason like joining a gun/hunting club starting off with a BB gun at five years and older.
    We need something that works or we will lose our guns.

    *Public hanging for a terrorist/mass killer would be my first choice...with having no fan fair to make some dope a hero...not even mentioning his/her name.

    *To all terrorist, "You will be wounded by authorities and then in 60 days or less hung by your neck." Yes some would be killed by authorities or legal carry people ..but that would give them something to think about.

    My fishing buddy saw one of the last head-chop in France..He said you would not do that crime after seeing a guy's head chopped off.

  2. Likes thomj liked this post
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    2,924
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    212
    Likes (Received)
    2038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If gun control works why are there so many shootings in Massachusetts cities?

    Five days, 17 shootings in Boston - The Boston Globe

    2019 murders in Boston | Universal Hub

    Nonfatal shootings in Boston jump by nearly 20% – Boston Herald

    The carnage started on New Year's eve.

    Dorchester Shooting Is State's First Homicide Of 2019 | Boston, MA Patch

    ================================================== ===================================
    Bill,

    If I truly believed that giving up more would drastically reduce the carnage I might consider that a rational path. BUT ... I live in a state that has some of the most stringent laws in the country and murders and other violent attacks have increased rather than decreased. Licensed persons such as myself have to jump through hoops not only to acquire and retain a license but also to comply with the myriad of confusing and often contradictory laws. Our cowboy action shooters can't even buy some of the most desirable single action revolvers despite them being replicas of firearms from the 1800s yet modern semi-auto pistols are legal for sale. We cannot buy new magazines of greater than 10 rounds yet older ones of higher capacity can be readily purchased because they were already in the state before the deadline.

    There are literally hundreds of examples of our mess of laws and the confusion they create. Even the courts sometimes have trouble sorting them out.
    Massachusetts is one of the safest places to live
    Our overall murder rate is lower than many rural states
    You keep arguing this BS, taking individual shootings as some kind of proof

    YOu feel unsafe,
    OK Fine

    you might feel safer in South Dakota, but you would not be

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    *Public hanging for a terrorist/mass killing would be my first choice...with having no fan fair to make some dope a hero...not even mentioning his/her name.
    WTF "public" puts that into the oxymoron category right up front.

    Asplundh the bastids, burger-burial at sea, no single-use plastics involved, right back into nature's recycling system, "Osama-who?" style.

  5. Likes partsproduction liked this post
  6. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3337
    Likes (Received)
    3542

    Default

    France could/should go back to chopping heads and the UK back to the rack..
    I wont even say what Russia might do, they know what is best.

  7. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Davidson NC USA
    Posts
    1,417
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    510
    Likes (Received)
    805

    Default

    Crazy people do things that sane people don't understand. Criminal people do things that honest people don't understand. Liberal judges do their best to keep both groups from appropriate punishment. We allow it, and we pay the price.

  8. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sealark37 View Post
    Crazy people do things that sane people don't understand. Criminal people do things that honest people don't understand. Liberal judges do their best to keep both groups from appropriate punishment. We allow it, and we pay the price.
    "Liberal judge" is an oxymoron.

    "Conservative judge" as well.

    Any "Judge" is meant to be impartial, simply apply the LAW. That's why we CALL them a "Judge". Other folk's jobs to "take sides" and come before them.

    Mind, off the back of behaviour patterns of long-standing, it does seem that applying the Law as it is HAS become labelled a "conservative" thing, whilst re-interpeting it to "current mores" - or wished-for, beyond even those - has become labelled a "liberal" thing.

    One more example of something not at ALL "liberal" being used to give an endangered species - genuinely liberal humans - a very bad name.

    There should be a more accurate label for that applied.

    "Mutinous Judge" might fit - given they are defying the Law, or presuming to re-define the intent of legislation rather than applying the Law - or quite properly asiding it, if flawed that badly it cannot meet the standards and BE applied fairly.

    And, Oh, BTW.. that "mutiny" fails the test for appointment "on good behaviour", yet they stay on the bench?

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? indeed....

  9. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    657
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    191
    Likes (Received)
    248

    Default

    Gun control is like socialism, the only reason it fails is that you didn't do it right. Do more and try again...

    Freedom is scary. And "mass shootings" are inconsequential to everything except the march toward fewer rights. If we really cared about people dying there are more important things to focus on.



    I personally feel that the current violence is a result of dismantling the metal health institutions. All the latest murders all had flags in their past but you can't really commit people any more. And I don't think red flag laws address this, if you're too dangerous to have a firearm you should be jailed IMHO.

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,339
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1462
    Likes (Received)
    1581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    France could/should go back to chopping heads and the UK back to the rack..
    I wont even say what Russia might do, they know what is best.
    drawn and quartered

    if that doesn't deter people form crime they are beyond "help"

  11. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nmbmxer View Post
    And I don't think red flag laws address this, if you're too dangerous to have a firearm you should be jailed IMHO.
    Sci-Fi .. or Roman History ... might indicate we are heading in a different direction.

    Those too dangerous to be trusted out and about with any sort of "deadly weapon" are ISSUED them.

    In an arena. To visit tragedy on each other. For stadium crowds. Live, then. "On screen" now.

    Internet and circuses.

    Too many carbo-cals in bread? Wasn't it "the media" as told us that?

    Wouldn't mind some of those self-angried-up having a go at the damned weeds in my garden with hand-operated kevlar string-trimmer line- no mechanicals involved.

    Does seem part of their very common problem is they've seldom been sore tired, hungry, sweaty but proud of a day's honest work, and damned glad of a meal earned off it.


  12. Likes magneticanomaly liked this post
  13. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    drawn and quartered

    if that doesn't deter people form crime they are beyond "help"
    Spoken from the viewpoint of a rational man who would be so deterred, of course.

    Problem is - they are not we.

    No, repeat NO, after-the-act punishment has ever been shown to have a significant preventive effect on anyone who actually NEEDED a barrier to deadly behaviour to begin with.

    Very few folk among us ever need the stick. Of any kind.

    There are "many carrots" - at the very least acceptance by their fellow man they'd rather not put at risk of loss. We "care", in other words. About at least one person. Our OWN opinion of ourselves. More is better.

    The threat comes from those society has not so reached, nor have they granted themselves a measure of worth that FITS a society if only as a passenger or fellow-traveler.

    Cannot reach themselves... nor be reached, even by professionals. Ever.

    "Beyond help" may in fact, be the case for SOME of them.

    Stupid-lazy, mentally, seems to do about as much harm, though.


  14. Likes magneticanomaly liked this post
  15. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3337
    Likes (Received)
    3542

    Default

    Something bad to think about might deter shootings.

    The plan seems to be a quick death\suicide exit..

    Anything that changes the plan might stop some of the shootings.

    This last guy having a public hanging would make others think about getting the same.

    Even this guy looks like he thinks "Put me in jail, I love that place.
    Waffle House shooting suspect caught following 34-hour manhunt

    Hanging in the United States - Wikipedia

  16. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    3,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4255
    Likes (Received)
    4094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    drawn and quartered

    if that doesn't deter people form crime they are beyond "help"
    "Amendment 8
    - Excessive Bail, Fines, and Punishments Forbidden

    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

    Those of you who would throw the Constitution in the trash as a "solution" to crime and terrorism would be offering a gift to future tyrants. And have no doubt about it - eventually "dissidents" would be drawn and quartered at a far greater rate than criminals and terrorists.

    And for those who think public hangings deter crime guess again. In old England one of the greatest chances of having your pocket picked was while watching a hanging.

    In England drawing and quartering was most commonly imposed as penalty for treason. And what was treason? It was whatever the King said it was.

    Never support laws you may someday be persecuted under.

  17. Likes iwananew10K, mhajicek, fusker liked this post
  18. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1738
    Likes (Received)
    1845

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    As everyone here knows, we are surrounded by people, often with the best of intentions, who can't wait to confiscate all our guns. Other than contributing to some organizations and writing our congressmen, individuals have not really been doing all that much. There is a lot of noise about keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people, but not much really accomplished.

    To introduce myself, which many of you have heard before but some haven't. I am coming up on 84 in a few days, got my first .22 rifle at 13 and have always had guns since. I keep and bear arms and have every intention of continuing to do so. I joined the NRA before a lot of you were born. As I write, there is a loaded 12 ga Browning O&U three steps away and I support concealed carry.

    The point of that monologue was to make it clear that I am not some sort of bleeding heart anti gun type and the things I may propose I believe are in the best interest of the sport, even if some of you don't like them.

    The question is- what can we do as individuals or a group to bring the firearms world around to a more rational state?

    Like Chicago, St. Louis often has multiple murders on a weekend. A sad commentary was when I said to a black friend that I was nervous about going in a certain part of town. He said "You don't have to worry, you're white." The reasons for that condition are complex and beyond the scope of our forum, but someone makes the guns and distributes them. The police are constantly picking up convicted felons carrying guns. How do they get them and what can we do about it?

    Lest this seem like a racist post (it isn't) there are literally hundreds of cases where guns bought legally are used in multiple murders. Do we need to change the purchase system? I don't like the idea of more stringent background checks, but as a card carrying member of the human race, I like these murders much less and if I need to give up some of my autonomy to stop them, then I would have to regard it as a reasonable trade.

    Off the soapbox and into the asbestos suit,

    Bill
    Quit the NRA, and refuse to vote for anyone who is not for sensible gun regulations. In my opinion, if you want to own a lethal device, the community at large must know you have one or more (i.e. licensing), and you must own insurance to cover any damage that your device may cause. Every state did that for cars, a lot less-lethal device.

    dee
    ;-D

  19. Likes morsetaper2, fusker liked this post
  20. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    9,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3337
    Likes (Received)
    3542

    Default

    QT Scottl post 32: "nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."QT

    But now we have cruel and unusual crimes...

    So IMHO I think an amendment is due.

  21. Likes tdmidget liked this post
  22. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    3,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4255
    Likes (Received)
    4094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    The threat comes from those society has not so reached, nor have they granted themselves a measure of worth that FITS a society if only as a passenger or fellow-traveler.

    Cannot reach themselves... nor be reached, even by professionals. Ever.

    "Beyond help" may in fact, be the case for SOME of them.

    Stupid-lazy, mentally, seems to do about as much harm, though.

    Years ago I knew a man who described one of his own sons as a monster. Despite being raised in a loving 2 parent home where other siblings turned out fine he was a problem from the start. No amount of love or counseling could change him. If he wanted what another child had he just took it and violently assaulted the child if they resisted. He seemed to accept no rules except his own. As a teenager he was involved in a brutal murder so senseless and horrific it shocked even veteran cops and seasoned prosecutors. He was sent to prison and AFAIK is still there.

    And this ultra violent murder involved neither firearms or anything else we normally think of as weapons.

    As I kid I had a classmate who had to barricade his bedroom door at night to avoid being attacked by his brother. That monster also eventually ended up in prison.

    Over the years I have heard of many similar child monsters who grew into adult monsters. The stories were told by those who knew them, in some cases relatives.

  23. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,998
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1646
    Likes (Received)
    4822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    If gun control works why are there so many shootings in Massachusetts cities?
    This gets trotted out constantly, for MA, CA, NY, etc.

    The answer is simple (and correct) - the easy interstate transit of small arms from neighboring, or further away states with much looser gun control and registration regulations and laws. Or, more succinctly, from illegal trafficking in guns.

    It would be much more difficult to perform if uniform, nation wide registration and sales laws were in place, they would have lowered the chance of the attacks like in Gilroy, CA: Garlic Festival Shooting Highlights a Common Pattern: Guns from Nevada, Used to Kill in California

    Scott's statement (and this isn't against Scott, it's just a standard phrase in the NRA playbook) that "gun laws didn't stop X in Y" is just one of the many used each time mass shootings occur, and they go back decades.

    I'm still stunned by the newest one, the "false flag" accusation used by Rob F. (and which he still hasn't supported). This is a reality-denying tact that's right up there with flat earthers and moon landing hoaxers, but far worse, as it makes the suffering of the parents of Newtown CT and Parkland FL inconsequential. What lack of humanity or willful blindness drives this??

  24. Likes 9100, Burton LeGeyt, Pariel, fusker, metalistic liked this post
  25. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    6,998
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1646
    Likes (Received)
    4822

    Default

    I'd like to add that I'm grateful to Bill/9100 for presenting the topic the way he has, and I hope this thread is allowed to continue.

  26. Likes fusker, metalistic liked this post
  27. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,741
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Q Every state did that for cars, a lot less-lethal device.
    Motor vehicles - even single-instance - have been easily as lethal as firearms. Fire, more so, yet.

    But never mind. Looking, here, at the only one of those challenges as reliably gets folks to run about with their emotions afire.

    Many among us also did the do with training, test, and licensing on MHE, watercraft, aircraft .. even explosives - as well.

    Not a "bad thing", any of those qualifications, rules and practices.

    But it doesn't do SQRT-FA to prevent a NUTCASE turning any one of the above - or a common match or Bic lighter and a quantity of any flammable handy - nor a bag of ignorant baking flour - into a weapon of mass destruction if/as/when they go bonkers.

    And... it's actually a cop-out, be it firearms, autos, or petrol set afire - to suggest it might do, then go back to some other channel.

    If "there ought to be a Law" isn't part of the solution?

    What if it's part of the problem?

    "Not MY job - We have Laws against that sort of s**t"... apathy. Cut-out. Disconnect. Compartmentalization. Quarantine. Distancing, even.

    Hardly EVER any such tragedy MANY laws were not broken. Murder, if no other.

    Could it be possible to intercept the general class of ANY SORT of attack with awareness, involvement, and empathy?

    "See it coming" if even by a hair more than the minute or so law enforcement managed to respond in from a pure surprise cold-start.... and the balance has been tipped.

    Dreaming? Not really. Rather a lot of such tragedy HAS BEEN intercepted in time.
    Last edited by thermite; 08-08-2019 at 11:36 AM.

  28. Likes Scottl liked this post
  29. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dewees Texas
    Posts
    2,282
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    26
    Likes (Received)
    603

    Default

    It is strange that probably most of us have known one of those monsters. One I knew liked to beat up younger but taller kids, he has since been executed.

    A lot of us have guns and use them for various purposes. I live on a ranch and can not see living out here with out them. Personally I have no attraction to AR style rifles, but I have seen neighbors use them on pigs. Underpowered if you ask me, better for small game.
    We are in what has been called the last days and things will be getting worse. Taking away guns has been proposed as a solution, but will only make monsters resort to other means. The knife attack last night and others mentioned in the shotgun thread come to mind. If they (the monsters) get creative the outcomes could be a lot worse. As bad as the Las Vegas massacre was, it could have been much worse if the monster had applied his time and effort differently.

    One law enforcement spokesman was recently heard to say: he would mention the perp's name only once and there after he would be called something else. Publicity has already been mentioned as a cause for the increase of mass murders. I have heard no one talking about doing away with the first amendment and freedom of the press which would probably be more effective than taking away guns.

  30. Likes partsproduction, danil liked this post
  31. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    151
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    38
    Likes (Received)
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Quit the NRA, and refuse to vote for anyone who is not for sensible gun regulations. In my opinion, if you want to own a lethal device, the community at large must know you have one or more (i.e. licensing), and you must own insurance to cover any damage that your device may cause. Every state did that for cars, a lot less-lethal device.

    dee
    ;-D
    Your version of "sensible" is FAR from mine. As far as lethal devices should every machine in every shop be registered for the number of people they have killed an maimed? Or every knife in your drawer? Lord knows the English are on their way to banning paper in an effort to ban anything that might cut.


    Also, I don't really support the NRA. They are too weak. I much prefer the hard line of the GoA. Though the Regressives do love their NRA boogie man just as much as they love running around squawking, "THE RUSSIANS ARE FALLING! THE RUSSIANS ARE FALLING!"

  32. Likes Scottl, partsproduction liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •