What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 23
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    Stop putting "progressives" i.e. communists in office. Look at Philadelphia, Baltimore, and all the other urban areas suffering from high crime. While the rest of the country is doing much better financially with the current president in office, these areas are getting worse. These progressives are busy destroying the rule of law and taking away penalties for crime so crime is flourishing in their areas. The sad thing is that there are actually many hard working people in these areas who cant leave because of money, work, or family so they suffer. These places become cesspools of drugs and prostitution. Meanwhile, many of our so called leaders are trying to spread the misery by pushing to legalize or at least decriminalize marijuana... the stepping stone to all the harder drugs and vises. Instead of promoting skills and self control they promote vise.... then the inevitable follows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK07747 View Post
    Stop putting "progressives" i.e. communists in office. Look at Philadelphia, Baltimore, and all the other urban areas suffering from high crime. While the rest of the country is doing much better financially with the current president in office, these areas are getting worse. These progressives are busy destroying the rule of law and taking away penalties for crime so crime is flourishing in their areas. The sad thing is that there are actually many hard working people in these areas who cant leave because of money, work, or family so they suffer. These places become cesspools of drugs and prostitution. Meanwhile, many of our so called leaders are trying to spread the misery by pushing to legalize or at least decriminalize marijuana... the stepping stone to all the harder drugs and vises. Instead of promoting skills and self control they promote vise.... then the inevitable follows.
    Darwinism, drug use is an example of. Weed that thins other weeds.

    A conspiracy theorist might even brand it a right-wing trick, not a left-wing "right".

    Only problem is it is too damned SLOW.

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    There's something wrong with this thesis.

    The timeline.

    All of the incidents you listed are very recent. If it really were "the politics and history of US gun ownership" where are the incidents from earlier generations?

    How many mass shootings occurred from say 1950 to 1980?


    How about say 1900 to 1950? Semi-auto rifles first became commonly available in the U.S. in 1905. Shouldn't that have led to a string of mass murders?

    How about the late 1800s? The rapid shooting lever-action Henry was introduced in the early 1860s. With it's 16 round capacity it was known as "the gun you can load on Sunday and shoot all week". Why weren't there a spate of schoolhouse shootings? After all, "gun culture" is nothing new in this country.

    When people try to blame guns for this modern phenomena they ignore the elephant in the room, a widely dispersed product that didn't even exist prior to the 1980s. It has been a factor in many mass shootings yet it is never mentioned by the news media. It's even more dangerous predecessor was developed in the early 1950s but was more tightly controlled. It may have been a factor in the shocking mass shooting that captured the news in 1966.

    This article graphically details the history and number of mass shootings in the USA. While it only has data up to 2013 it is still a valuable resource because it also gives statistics as to locations, weapons used, and other details.

    Mass Shootings in America: A Historical Review - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

    As to the phony statistics being thrown about, this article takes a closer look at the myth that "the US has by far the most mass public shootings in the world".

    America doesn’t actually lead the world in mass shootings


    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Eight. Hmmm.

    58 killed in Las Vegas
    49 killed in Orlando
    32 killed at Virginia Tech
    26 killed in Newtown, at Sandy Hook Elementary School, including 20 six- and seven-year old children
    26 killed in Sutherland Springs
    22 killed in El Paso
    17 killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
    14 killed in San Bernadino
    12 killed in Virginia Beach
    12 killed in Thousand Oaks
    12 killed in the Washington Navy Yard
    12 killed in Aurora
    11 killed in Pittsburgh, at the Tree of Life synagogue
    10 killed in Santa Fe, Texas, at Santa Fe High School
    9 killed in Dayton, 13 hours after the El Paso massacre
    9 killed in Roseburg, Oregon, at Umpqua Community College
    9 killed at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, in Charleston, South Carolina

    Again there is no changing this. Expect more, the politics and history of US gun ownership means no change here.

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    “God himself will have died of old age before any such looter-fantasy ever arrives in America.”


    Bill Bill Bill.

    ‘In God we trust, all others must bring data”...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    There's something wrong with this thesis.

    The timeline.

    All of the incidents you listed are very recent. If it really were "the politics and history of US gun ownership" where are the incidents from earlier generations?

    How many mass shootings occurred from say 1950 to 1980?


    How about say 1900 to 1950? Semi-auto rifles first became commonly available in the U.S. in 1905. Shouldn't that have led to a string of mass murders?

    How about the late 1800s? The rapid shooting lever-action Henry was introduced in the early 1860s. With it's 16 round capacity it was known as "the gun you can load on Sunday and shoot all week". Why weren't there a spate of schoolhouse shootings? After all, "gun culture" is nothing new in this country.

    When people try to blame guns for this modern phenomena they ignore the elephant in the room, a widely dispersed product that didn't even exist prior to the 1980s. It has been a factor in many mass shootings yet it is never mentioned by the news media. It's even more dangerous predecessor was developed in the early 1950s but was more tightly controlled. It may have been a factor in the shocking mass shooting that captured the news in 1966.

    This article graphically details the history and number of mass shootings in the USA. While it only has data up to 2013 it is still a valuable resource because it also gives statistics as to locations, weapons used, and other details.

    Mass Shootings in America: A Historical Review - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

    As to the phony statistics being thrown about, this article takes a closer look at the myth that "the US has by far the most mass public shootings in the world".

    America doesn’t actually lead the world in mass shootings
    And there still are liberals blaming the gun, they just love to deny the facts that are in front of their faces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    And there still are liberals blaming the gun, they just love to deny the facts that are in front of their faces.
    The far BIGGER lie is that they call themselves "liberals" when they are the exact opposite. Fascists.

    That's a horrid insult to genuine liberals, especially as they are an endangered species already, and hard done by.

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    Comparing gun deaths to car crashes or drownings is really pointless since items like cars have a utilitarian use much different from guns.

    Jim Rozen: lynchings had dropped to off to only a few, if any a year before any federal anti-lynching bills got through congress. The public's behavior had changed for its own reasons, independent of laws. People can change and possibly the thing to do is initiate a campaign extolling the virtues of recreational shooting and safety.

    Also, look at how enrollments for different specialties change when there are popular TV programs making them cool. Maybe a swat team leader who, when confronted with someone barricaded in a house, instead of storming it with a bunch of black clad modern ninjas cuts off the electricity, water and gas to the house and sits down to wait until the perp gets tired of being thirsty and hungry and gives up. The message is that shootouts are not cool. Using your head is.

    Lynching in the United States - Wikipedia

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    And there still are liberals blaming the gun, they just love to deny the facts that are in front of their faces.
    It goes deeper than that. Not only do the manufacturers make enormous amounts of money selling "the elephant" but the advertising revenues are a major source of income for the companies that produce our "news". Many political leaders are also indebted to them, and would face well funded challengers if they pointed a finger at the elephant.

    The finger MUST be pointed in a different direction to distract from what likely is the most important factor in these horrible incidents, and guns make a convenient scapegoat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Comparing gun deaths to car crashes or drownings is really pointless since items like cars have a utilitarian use much different from guns.
    Equally do swimming pools or firearms have utilitarian uses different from automobiles. Or each other.

    Where's any point in that?

    You started a thread called ".... gun violence". Not violent criminals who used guns.

    Walked in the door, big bang onward, with negative credibility, taking for granted others were too stupid or distracted to notice the preconception.

    Humans are violent. Or not. Honour THAT threat.

    Guns are but one potential tool among many. They lack the sentience to sneak-up on folks and commit mayhem on their own efforts. They are HARD to utilize at any significant distance from the perp applying them. Peace officers KNOW whom has to be put-down in short-order.

    You should worry more about drones, data links, AI, and incendiaries or IED's, actually. Poisons as well.

    Drones can remain anonymous, ferry deadly materials one load at a time until critical mass is in-place little or no notice taken until the foul deed is done. If not longer-yet. Even suicide themselves, no harm to the perp, nor all that much even to his purse.

    How d'you defend against THAT?

    I doubt old Bob wudda claimed it original, but:

    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.
    Last edited by thermite; 08-14-2019 at 03:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    It goes deeper than that. Not only do the manufacturers make enormous amounts of money selling "the elephant" but the advertising revenues are a major source of income for the companies that produce our "news". Many political leaders are also indebted to them, and would face well funded challengers if they pointed a finger at the elephant.

    The finger MUST be pointed in a different direction to distract from what likely is the most important factor in these horrible incidents, and guns make a convenient scapegoat.
    Hits close to home. As First (European) settlers, what is now Lewis County, WBGVA, lot of us were still resident there when the State built its Asylum for the often CRIMINALLY insane. A short walk in the woods to the edges of our side-by-side family farms.

    Trans-Allegheny Lunatic Asylum - Wikipedia

    Some of the frequent escapees were comical. But only sort of.

    The deadly multiple arsonist who G'Mum found wee hours of a morning as had shredded bales of newspapers on her utility porch knee to waist deep, that ever-so politely asked her for a match.

    Others surprised, overcame, then savagely beat elderly farm families to a gruesome death, armed themselves with stolen weapons, gave the local constabulary regular heartburn - "the word" put out by party-line phone and runners. "Patient has escaped". They were generally taken alive.

    After all, the asylum was to become a reg'lar country club under a so-called "liberal" female warden with a buncha collitch degrees ...who even encouraged random sex among the inmates to keep them calm and cooperative. Co-ed facility. Equal opportunity, nonetheless. I did say "alleged liberal"?

    Shutting down such places seemed like a good idea at the time. 2400 hundred inmates. In a rather small US State. And only the KNOWN worst-off ones as HAD to be institutionalized, at that.

    So now? They are "street people." Distributed among far, far larger count of drug afflicted and economically disadvantaged. They are the snowflakes, living off parents, no meaningful employment. Some are employed, but barely so.

    As before, MOST of them harmless.

    But whom knows which? Or where?

    Or when not?

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    If you had to describe yourself as a single issue gun owner, which issue would that be?

    Mine is the right and means to self defense.
    It is a very required right I extend it from the individual right up to a nation.
    We must be armed to defend ourselves.

    There are limitations to this view and pragmatism that has to be present however...

    START I - Wikipedia

    ‘Defense from tyranny’ not even present on my list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Mine is the right and means to self defense.
    It comes back to that. Sportsman or never.

    Time was, a body could hope to arrest and hold for formal peace officers to arrive.

    Count on an intercepted perp being savvy enough to recognize that a 12-bore or a serious handgun, either one, wasn't much use at wounding, range of mebbe ten feet, and best he not press his luck.

    Hollywood - hand-held or internet games - where a perp comes to believe he, too, is an invincible, can easily overcome his captor without serious harm has made that riskier. Drugs, even worse.

    A person as has invaded a home with the family in-residence, has already made a clear as daylight statement as to not holding any respect for laws, nor any regard for life or property of others.

    Is there really enough time for an undefended homeowner to ...just what?

    Write to his Congressman? Offer a sexual favour? Fix a meal? Sacrifice his children?

    Blame Trump? There you have it. Kindred souls, after all, looters with TDS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    If you had to describe yourself as a single issue gun owner, which issue would that be?

    Mine is the right and means to self defense.
    It is a very required right I extend it from the individual right up to a nation.
    We must be armed to defend ourselves.

    There are limitations to this view and pragmatism that has to be present however...

    START I - Wikipedia

    ‘Defense from tyranny’ not even present on my list.
    I wouldn't ever let myself be confined to a single issue. That is a "do you still beat your wife" type of question.

    My list would be far longer than yours, and in addition to all the sporting uses, hobby, etc. would also include not only your list but the one you intentionally omitted. Add in not accepting guilt for the acts of others and not accepting false paradigms that are likely to make the world less rather than more safe ...

    My "single" answer is ALL OF THE ABOVE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK07747 View Post
    Stop putting "progressives" i.e. communists in office. Look at Philadelphia, Baltimore, and all the other urban areas suffering from high crime. While the rest of the country is doing much better financially with the current president in office, these areas are getting worse. These progressives are busy destroying the rule of law and taking away penalties for crime so crime is flourishing in their areas. The sad thing is that there are actually many hard working people in these areas who cant leave because of money, work, or family so they suffer. These places become cesspools of drugs and prostitution. Meanwhile, many of our so called leaders are trying to spread the misery by pushing to legalize or at least decriminalize marijuana... the stepping stone to all the harder drugs and vises. Instead of promoting skills and self control they promote vise.... then the inevitable follows.
    Well, you made sense till you started talking about marijuana. The only stepping stone marijuana is to Domino's. ALL the harder drungs and vises, eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rewt View Post
    Well, you made sense till you started talking about marijuana. The only stepping stone marijuana is to Domino's. ALL the harder drungs and vises, eh?
    Voluntarily f**ked-up is voluntarily f**ked-up. "Flavour" or degree of irresponsibility doesn't much matter. Prima facie proof of bad judgement. That binary.

    Can't even get 4 letters our of 5 right to spell "drug"?

    No longer a dependable human.

    No job available that needs undependables and irresponsibles all that badly.

    Legislate themselves free drugs and free medical care and free money they well may.

    Collecting won't ever be as easy. If nothing else, looters run out of enough victims as CAN pay, even if they WOULD pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Voluntarily f**ked-up is voluntarily f**ked-up. "Flavour" or degree of irresponsibility doesn't much matter. Prima facie proof of bad judgement. That binary.

    Can't even get 4 letters our of 5 right to spell "drug"?

    No longer a dependable human.

    No job available that needs undependables and irresponsibles all that badly.

    Legislate themselves free drugs and free medical care and free money they well may.

    Collecting won't ever be as easy. If nothing else, looters run out of enough victims as CAN pay, even if they WOULD pay.
    None of that word salad matters. You two sound like a bad Siskel and Ebert review of "Reefer Madness". Did I say anything about free? At least keep your salad on point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK07747 View Post
    Stop putting "progressives" i.e. communists in office. Look at Philadelphia, Baltimore, and all the other urban areas suffering from high crime. While the rest of the country is doing much better financially with the current president in office, these areas are getting worse. These progressives are busy destroying the rule of law and taking away penalties for crime so crime is flourishing in their areas. The sad thing is that there are actually many hard working people in these areas who cant leave because of money, work, or family so they suffer. These places become cesspools of drugs and prostitution. Meanwhile, many of our so called leaders are trying to spread the misery by pushing to legalize or at least decriminalize marijuana... the stepping stone to all the harder drugs and vises. Instead of promoting skills and self control they promote vise.... then the inevitable follows.
    So full your eyes are brown. If reefer is the root of all evil, why isn't this happening in the reefer legal states only? Why are the offenders not frequent users?
    " Instead of promoting skills and self control they promote vise." Yeah "they" should promote spelling and grammar.
    S

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    So full your eyes are brown. If reefer is the root of all evil, why isn't this happening in the reefer legal states only? Why are the offenders not frequent users?
    " Instead of promoting skills and self control they promote vise." Yeah "they" should promote spelling and grammar.
    S
    Much as I prefer "vise" for the hardware that grips and "vice" as the behavioural failing that grips, the rules of grammer actually support interchangeable use.

    "Drung" for "drug" was not so favourably handled.

    Of greater import, the so-called "recreational" drug has long been known harmful, sometimes fatally so, as it first degrades judgement, then also time sense and depth perception accuracy. "Accidents", vehicle and equipment operation related, were not uncommon, some of them multiply fatal. And worse.

    Not to forget, it is still a Federally prohibited drug, for which they can take your vehicle or even house. Hence my zero-tolerance, HERE, whether I actually give a damn what flavour of f**ked-up some other person is or not. Universally not, so long as not close enough to harm me even by accident. Faster they degrade, sooner the surviving gene-pool is free of the parasitic drag.

    Any disadvantage visited on a potential competitor - self-inflicted best of all - as renders them LESS capable of competing is fine with me.

    That the first medical effect is degradation of judgement is hardly fair, either as - by definition, voluntarily partaking has already proven lack of judgement. That makes employment screening more costly, but simpler, - a binary yes/no progression.

    It stands to reason there IS NO "reasoning" with users. By definition, their judgement is doubly impaired, and they have no choice but to defend the choice that led to that sad state.

    "Rationalization" of the damndest of things is something humans are always up for.

    Xin Loy

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    One fellow proposed that we give out free drugs, as much as people want, for the same reason that dogs don't chase cars anymore.

    Bill

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    One thing that has become clear in many discussions is that a lot of people don't really know what an AR-15 is. If all their "knowledge" comes from media they are likely to believe ...

    That it is the same as the similar looking M-16 and M4 rifles used by the military.

    That it "sprays" bullets.

    That the cartridge is some kind of super power round in comparison to others in common use.

    That it is designed "only for killing human beings" and has no legitimate civilian use.

    Some, who should know better, have suggested that those who own them are "Rambo wannabees" or own them so they can pretend to be soldiers, etc. etc.

    In light of that I thought I would post a link to this article that not only gives an idea of how many are owned in the U.S. but also has an interesting (and fairly short) video detailing some of the history of military and civilian firearms in the U.S.

    The Number of AR-15s In America Will Shock Anti-Gunners

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