What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 30
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  1. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I cant imagine you guys would believe the gov would ever do anything nefarious to sway public opinion? Operation Gladio anyone?
    Operation Gladio - Hard Evidence of Government False Flag Terrorism

    Back to topic at hand and how it ties together is if the gov (or powers that be) want gun control they will need to convince the public it is a good idea.... How would they do that?
    Great video.
    This is what should be taught in our schools instead of how to put condoms on cucumbers or "What gender would you like to be this week?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    And if the community is fine with wanton murder of children? If the gun owner is ready to sacrifice his own family for the "ideal" of unconstrained weapons ownership?

    To what church are you folks praying to? Mot? Osiris? Viduus?
    "And if the community is fine with wanton murder of children?"

    There are such communities. Chicago comes to mind. (Boston, Philadelphia etc.)
    It has one of the strictest set of laws governing firearms possession in the country.
    And it's Mayor, Eric Holder, was caught selling firearms illegally to Mexican drug lords. Some of which were used to kill Americans. #Fast and Furious. No repercussions. If the government shows no desire to curb firearms violence, it is not a stretch to consider that they promote it.
    And the people that vote for him, and others like him, appear happy with the results. Or they wouldn't keep voting the same way.
    Heck, Marion Barry was re-elected Mayor of Washington DC after a cocaine conviction. What law and order do these people represent?

    So yes, some communities are fine with wanton murder.
    Sorry I cannot do more for them, but "ignore" is the root of "ignorance."

    I fail to see why I should surrender my rights and give up my liberties just because someone else broke the law. I live in an area where lawfully owned full automatics are quite common. Firearms violence is very, very rare.

    I suggest you consider giving up your freedom of speech because some people are liars.
    Or surrender your auto because some people drive under the influence of alcohol.
    The number one choice of writing instruments by people that cash bad checks is the BIC. Your reasoning suggests that we could reduce crime by putting restrictions on BIC pens. Registration, fees and waiting periods. Jail time and felony convictions for those that fail to comply.

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  4. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I would ban weapons who's sole purpose is mass human killings. Not hunting rifles.

    As for clothing, I suspect the world is a better pace with both you and I in garments, I would not risk the horror of having those taken away.
    The purpose of the 2d Amendment wasn't to protect hunting. It was to insure that Americans could resist their government if it got out of control.
    Maybe we should start with disarming the military of its weapons, who's sole purpose is mass human killings. I believe that half of the globe would thank us. And most Americans would appreciate the monetary savings.

    I'm with you on the clothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    I am not in the ban all at all cost crowd, I advocate that if you have to have one, prove three things, the absolute need, the qualifications you have to operate one, and the insurance to cover liability. Oh, BTW I also want public information that you have one. If you violate any of that you are banished from getting one forever. If you just simply want one you are not qualified to own one. And I do not care what one is if you proved all three things.

    dee
    ;-D

    I couldn't disagree more. And the Constitution is on my side.
    Prove to me that you need a car that will go over the speed limit. Prove to me that your house needs two bathrooms. Prove to me that you need a swimming pool or a large TV.
    Sorry Stalin, I'm not on board with this.

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  8. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    So we should all die for freedom?
    That is what service to country is all about.
    Every Serviceman has taken an oath to protect the Constitution.
    So have your Judges and Elected Officials.
    Guess which one does it better.
    Guess where the problem lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Media performs a needed service of holding a mirror up for us to see ourselves. Media does not kill, it is the individual and the demagogue who does the act or agitates for it to be done.

    That said, I would like a rethink about how to identify the perps, as there's some truth to the copycat/glorification aspect being problematic.
    Media serves at the pleasure of those in power.
    Those in power only serve themselves, and only seek to remain in power.

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    I find it interesting that the gun homicide rate in a state like California is exactly the same as in Virginia. As someone who has lived in both places, they could not be more different. California gun laws become more restrictive almost on a yearly basis. The difference between now and 40 years ago when I bought my first gun there are night and day. Now living in Virginia for the last 10 years I could not imagine a state having gun and hunting laws that were more lax. I don't understand why the anti-gun folks think it is easier to take 100 million+ guns or whatever the number is than try to get better control over our yearly 10,000 homicidal maniacs.

    I live in an area where I am pretty sure almost every household owns a gun, probably most multiple guns. Hunters are pretty active in this area and a lot of people target shoot, the smallest home lot is probably an acre and most 5+ acres. It is rare a day goes by I don't hear gunshots. This is a very low crime area, I feel perfectly safe. I don't even lock my vehicle and leave the keys in the ignition when at home.

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    Incompetant police chief in the news for leaving her gun in a public restroom and covering it up after someone else found it and took it:
    SLO police chief accused of coverup over stolen gun - Cal Coast Times
    San Luis Obispo Police Chief’s Gun Stolen After She Forgets It In Restroom – CBS Los Angeles
    Decent comments for both links, here is one:
    Folks .. under Kalifornia law.. She should have been fined and face criminal proceedings.. ZIP.. You and I make a mistake like that and we get the full force of the law on us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Incompetant police chief in the news for leaving her gun in a public restroom and covering it up after someone else found it and took it:
    SLO police chief accused of coverup over stolen gun - Cal Coast Times
    San Luis Obispo Police Chief’s Gun Stolen After She Forgets It In Restroom – CBS Los Angeles
    Decent comments for both links, here is one:
    Folks .. under Kalifornia law.. She should have been fined and face criminal proceedings.. ZIP.. You and I make a mistake like that and we get the full force of the law on us.
    Let's not forget this little gem from a few years ago:
    NBC's David Gregory Won't Be Charged For Showing Ammo Magazine : The Two-Way : NPR

    If one of us peons dared to bring such a horrid, deadly device with in 50 miles of DC we'd be thrown in jail for life.

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    If you want an endless supply of such "gems", look here:

    Bad Cop, No Donut!

    Read a few pages of that and then come back and tell me I should rely on the police for my family's safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    Media serves at the pleasure of those in power.
    Those in power only serve themselves, and only seek to remain in power.
    I had that conversation with a Stasi officer on an August night in a dance hall in Magdeburg, East Germany. 1968 and we had just watched the tanks go by on their way to subdue Czechoslovakia. Some of the American aerobatic team decided to go to the hall and I tagged along, although I was only a groupie for the team. I am not a dancer and the Stasi type was more or less on duty as a purported "interpreter", so we did what any good German would do, drank beer and watched the activities. Even the Swiss team, all Zurich Swiss who spoke perfect German, had an interpreter.

    The Americans had agreed to stay of politics and concentrate on being friends with everyone and having a good time, not easy in those circumstances. When the interpreter/cop tried to steer the conversation to Viet Nahm, I replied that I had my own view of the war but I was also an American, a very loyal one, and to an extent realized that I was representing my country as a guest in his, therefore, I felt that we should not get into a political discussion. He said that he understood, all I knew was what was in the newspapers and likewise that was all he knew, and both were controlled by the state. When I expressed amazement, he went on to say that if I read Marx, I would realize that the papers always supported the state. I tried to explain that we had publications for all sides, even communist papers, but I didn't get very far. I had reason to remember that in 1971 when the newspapers published the Pentagon Papers, how Nixon would have wanted to control them. In case that isn't enough, look up Emile Zola and J'Accuse.

    There is uniformity in the reporting by the major TV networks, but it is a long way from the sort of control I saw in East Germany and we need to keep it that way. If we give up our 1st, we won't have our 2nd long. A leaked memo says that Trump is working on censoring the internet.

    Bill

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    Wow, Ok I'm coming late to the party. But I want to respond to Bill's OP. My opinion is that there is a portion of the political spectrum who have an interest in seeing these atrocities continue because they re-enforce the arguments to ban guns. That being said, here are a few things I will suggest (some I have before).

    1) Eliminate "GUN FREE ZONES" (GFZs) There is no such thing. They should be named "GUN FREE (On the Honor System) Zones". These should be banned unless there are permits applied for that require GFZs to be inspected for safety that include metal detectors and/or armed guards that actually prevent guns from entering them. Currently, anyone can slap up a $5 GFZ sign that lulls the public into a sense of false security. These soft targets will continue to be the first choice for these atrocities.

    2) Reintroduce the draft. The vast majority of these atrocities are committed by young white men 16-20. Having this group of young adults serving their country may promote some of the positive values that we used to know. Not saying it would work for all cases, but could bridge the gap for some young men who have not had a positive male influence in their lives.

    3)Reinstate Mental-Health institutions that house and care for the mentally ill. These were reputed to be horrible environments for the residents back in the day. So those aspects would have to be monitored. But I believe there are some individuals that should be removed from society (at least temporarily) for the safety of the society.

    4) Raise the age of gun purchase for civilian population to something beyond the danger zone. I have read before that military studies showed that most men reach an age that is less likely to be suited for the suicide missions. I don't recall the actual statistics, but I think it was something like 19 - 21 years old. That is when human males are more likely to question whether something should be done rather than just blindly follow the orders to commit suicide. Anyway this should be studied further as an option.

    Ok Bill, I've just put on my flame retardant suit also. Go ahead and flame away.

    Best Regards,
    Bob

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  22. #593
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    RJS,

    I agree on point 1. If you take away someone's ability to defend themselves, you become responsible for their protection. This used to be a basic rule of hospitality; if you're a guest in my house it's my responsibility to protect you. If I fail to do so it's as much my failing as it is of the one who attacked you.

    One problem with point 2 is that you can no longer take a random teenager, hand him a weapon, and point him at the enemy and have him be a good soldier. The basic requirements have risen significantly over the past few decades. Even our most basic soldiers these days need to operate technological equipment and follow complicated orders and rules of engagement. Most of the time they're not being used as a mass force against another army, they're acting as police. I think a lot of the so called undesirables would not qualify.

    On point 3, we do have such institutions. They may need better funding, better training, etc., but one thing I fear is "sanity police". If there are people who can go around declaring people insane that's a very dangerous thing. You support the wrong political view? You're insane! Lock him up! You think you need guns to protect yourself? You're paranoid delusional! Take away his guns!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    RJS,

    On point 3, we do have such institutions. They may need better funding, better training, etc., but one thing I fear is "sanity police". If there are people who can go around declaring people insane that's a very dangerous thing. You support the wrong political view? You're insane! Lock him up! You think you need guns to protect yourself? You're paranoid delusional! Take away his guns!
    That is where many of Stalin's enemies went.

    Bill

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    On mental health, and why our society is depressed and anxious:

    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjs44032 View Post
    ...
    2) Reintroduce the draft.
    3)Reinstate Mental-Health institutions that house and care for the mentally ill....
    Bob
    Interesting ideas, but for (2) I doubt the red-pill shooters in question would be accepted into the
    military, or if they were, they'd be discharged before basic training was over for them.

    (3) the problem with that is, they still exist - they never went away. The problem is how to pay them. Nobody wants
    to pay to treat mental illness, and further the percentage of mentally ill people who become
    red-pill shooters is about one percent. All shooters are crazy but only a tiny percentage of
    mentally ill people become angry white guys with guns.

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    As I sit here, I wonder?

    How many just want laws actually enforced?

    How many want murderers, drive by shooters, rapist, pedophiles, human traffickers, illegal drugs and other offenses actually punished?

    Why can't we publicly execute and bury the ones who deserve it?

    As an example, to others that commit serious crimes.

    Eventually there has to be a line; drawn for crimes of these natures.

    A society has to have certain expectations for the population. Certain limits for behavior.

    Destroy the family structure, then legislate morality, so double minded.

    Eventually, a people under stress, will break. People cry for liberty, but are they sure they know, what is liberty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    On mental health, and why our society is depressed and anxious:

    YouTube
    Good video, thanks for sharing.

    Up front, I appreciate your perspective and experience.
    My opinion is that in Europe Intelligence Agencies are more open in their actions than here in the US. However, here in the US they are a lot more sophisticated and equally effective. They just don't publicly play the bully.

    My belief is not that emotionally hurting people just get a gun and shoot people.
    But I do believe that emotionally hurting people can be manipulated to get a gun and shoot people.
    And if it serves the purpose of truly evil people, they will damage people emotionally for just this purpose.

    Here is what an experienced CIA officer had to say on the subject.
    His remarks on Jihadi John refer to overseas operations. The context isn't clear as it was cropped from a longer interview.

    YouTube


    YouTube

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    9100

    There is nothing more important than free speech.
    Nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    9100

    There is nothing more important than free speech.
    Nothing.
    That is why it is the 1st amendment
    And a good way to insure we will have that into the future is to protect the 2nd amendment.

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