What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 4
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 4 of 101 FirstFirst ... 234561454 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 2013
  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Interior British Columbia
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    235
    Likes (Received)
    688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    None of those except cars are capable of mass killings within a minute. And not only is a car not designed primarily to kill, but its use requires universal licensing and registration.

    This is another of the extremely tired go-tos from the NRA playbook. It is so easily rebutted that I don't understand why it's constantly trotted out.
    Cars have to be Registered gets trotted out here in Canada a LOT. But nobody sends a cop out to check on your car, maybe take it away from you, if you decide not to renew the registration. You just are not allowed to use it on the roads.

    What can we actually do as individuals? Don't be part of the problem. Politely refuse to accept responsibility for the actions of wingnuts and fools.

    You in the USA, actually have the Second Amendment to your Constitution. We here in Canada have far less protection embedded into our legal and political systems.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Cars only need registration if used on public roads. On private land I could buy and drive an M1 Abrams if I could afford it. Hell I like to dream and look up the prices of old T-55's/72's just for fun.
    Cars, trucks, boats, planes and the like may "require" registration and insurance to operate lawfully in public spaces, but that does not in any way prevent their illegal use. Any person who knows how to operate them is entirely able to operate them unlawfully as evidenced by the 9/11 attacks i.e. those who flew the aircraft as weapons were not the registered owners of the aircraft, nor did they have insurance for the operation of those aircraft.

    The belief that vehicle licensing, registration and insurance requirements prevents someone who is not licensed, insured or the registered owner of say a gasoline tanker from stealing said tanker from a truck stop and crashing it into say a shopping mall during holiday shopping season, is the same belief as the absurd belief that a "no weapons" sign on a door somehow prevents someone with bad intent from bringing a weapon into the building.

    Simply put, laws do not in any way prevent crimes, they only provide a structure for retribution from the ruling mob.

    I'm afraid I am of the "not one inch" camp on 1A, 2A, 4A, etc. Existing firearms laws are blatant violations of 2A, the current "thought police" climate is a severe threat to 1A, the .gov use of social media as a way around 4A yet another threat. I have young children, and I will not surrender any of their constitutional rights in the name of false security for them or to appease the knee-jerk reactions of the ignorant masses.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1741
    Likes (Received)
    5136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nmbmxer View Post
    All I need to know is that the government isn't afraid of trucks -- they want to ban the guns. -- which is all the reason you should need to own them.
    All I need is an electorate that votes in people with good policies, so that they don't fear a boogie-man government dictator taking over the country.

    I do fear the paranoiac owners of guns who feel that the stranger at the door (who's lost and seeks directions) is best shot first and interrogated later. I do fear gun owners who conflate car and truck ownership with gun ownership.

    And I do not hold that the 2nd-A gives some magic protections, unless there's a full Air Force, Navy, and SAC capability in private hands. Or do you wish to be allowed your own stock of nuclear weapons?

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    All I need is an electorate that votes in people with good policies, so that they don't fear a boogie-man government dictator taking over the country.

    I do fear the paranoiac owners of guns who feel that the stranger at the door (who's lost and seeks directions) is best shot first and interrogated later. I do fear gun owners who conflate car and truck ownership with gun ownership.

    And I do not hold that the 2nd-A gives some magic protections, unless there's a full Air Force, Navy, and SAC capability in private hands. Or do you wish to be allowed your own stock of nuclear weapons?
    To be clear, 2A:

    1. Expressly places things in a military context "Militia", so there can be no valid argument that it relates to deer hunting or some such.

    2. Use the all encompassing term "arms", so it clearly relates to all forms of military arms i.e. swords, rockets, explosives, etc.

    3. Uses the very strong term "infringed", as opposed to restricted, prohibited or the like, so it is clear that the time, effort and cost of jumping through "licensing" hoops is and infringement of the rights afforded under 2A.

    This is the reality of 2A, if you don't like it you need to work to change or amend it, not unconstitutionally infringe it.

  5. Likes DrHook, CalG, Scottl, mhajicek, Rex TX and 4 others liked this post
  6. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,906
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    We have a problem and it goes far deeper than gun violence.

    As someone from an older generation I'm shocked at how casually many today talk about advocating violence against others. I feel sorry for the families of these mass shooters as likely they will be barraged with death threats.

    It's becoming far more common today for total strangers to threaten others, especially if they've been spotlighted in the news cycle. People have had to leave their homes and workplaces for fear of their own safety.

    Online forums are full of comments about killing, hurting and maiming others for the most trivial of reasons. Large numbers believe violence against political opponents is normal and acceptable. And if God forbid some poor soul leaves a dog in a hot car and it gets on the news an online mob will demand savage punishment, even if the animal remains alive.

    THIS is the sea those peculiar fish who commit mass murder swim in and yet we always act shocked that they do what hordes of others rail about.

    The Saint Valentines murders shocked and horrified a nation in another age and most of the victims were criminals. Today we'd barely raise an eyebrow. We have largely ceased to value human life and I fear we are returning to the barbarism of older times. In the ancient world there was no such thing as noncombatants and it was not uncommon to slaughter entire villages including women and children.

    What can we do? How about trying our best to convince others of the value of human life? If society continues on its current course there will be hordes of young killers acting out in future decades.
    Samuel R. Delaney. Dhalgren. 1974. One of the most depressing reads, ever, and I've read a few.

    Seemed even his most extravagant fancy had exceeded any possible reality, farthest future.

    Sadly, not even close:

    Khmer Rouge, Kampuchea within the year
    Lebanon's meltdown
    Yugoslavia
    Rwanda
    Somalia
    Burma....

    and yet....Dhalgren was set in the US Midwest....

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1741
    Likes (Received)
    5136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wp6529 View Post
    This is the reality of 2A, if you don't like it you need to work to change or amend it, not unconstitutionally infringe it.
    To what level do you want to be armed?

  8. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,906
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    Maybe we can think of something more divisive to discuss.
    We do need the break about now.

    Your Mother sure dresses you awful funny.

    Ah s**t.

    Your luck and mine? We may have just found the only subject on all of PM that is NOT divisive.

    :{

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,098
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3448
    Likes (Received)
    2639

    Default

    It is the logical outcome of a society that does not value human life.
    In my opinion...we do not have a gun control issue....the issues we have will not be solved by anything related to guns. It can only be solved from a society level and that will never happen because it would require judgement..certain things are good and other things are not...and for decades we have been told that such judging is BAD...
    My opinion

  10. Likes Scottl, Cole2534, danil, magneticanomaly liked this post
  11. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,906
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Excuse me for barging in, instead of banning guns, ban certain types of ammunition and regulate its sale.

    Tom
    You've NO idea how useless that sounds ..... coming from a MACHINIST, rather than a house painter or a pizza baker!

  12. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    58

    Default

    Ultimately, we need to find a way to "fix" society and the issues that are driving the despair of those who commit terroristic attacks. Many or even most of the issues are the same regardless of the superficial motivation for the attacks.

    Some of the issues:

    - Lack of access to education / higher education. This is both access to basic education in developing countries and affordable higher education in developed countries.

    - Lack of respect for and decent pay for the "dirty trades". Far too many kids are told they are worthless if they show interest in anything but college and high end "white collar" jobs. They are harmed both if they are pushed into a path they are not suited for and also if they do pursue a path that suits them well and they are not respected or paid a proper wage.

    - Lack of decent job opportunities regardless of education. This is a huge problem with a growing population and a shrinking pool of jobs. When 1,000 people with PhDs are competing for one of the few jobs that hasn't been automated / AI'd away, that is not a viable place to be.

    - In the developed world in particular, lack of parental presence due to the need for both parents if they manage to stay together) to work in order to survive. Not so long ago it was the norm for one parent to be able to find a decent job and support their family so the other parent could raise the children full time. Then along came the DINKs (dual income, no kids) which was ok when their numbers were small, but as they became more common that extra income caused the economy to re-balance as it always does, so their income level became what was necessary to survive and now a large percentage of families, perhaps a majority require both parents working in order to survive.

    Ultimately, just like the "Nuclear Genie" is out of the bottle and can't be put back, so is the "Firearm Genie", "Knife Genie", "explosive Genie" and "Improvised Weapon Genie". The Genies cannot be put back in the bottles no matter how many laws you write or even draconian police state measures you implement. Whether good or bad intentioned, the populace is entirely capable of making their own weapons and will do so if they are driven to the point they feel that have to.

  13. Likes Scottl, mhajicek, jeffm8622, metalistic liked this post
  14. #71
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,474
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1759
    Likes (Received)
    1897

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wp6529 View Post
    To be clear, 2A:

    1. Expressly places things in a military context "Militia", so there can be no valid argument that it relates to deer hunting or some such.

    2. Use the all encompassing term "arms", so it clearly relates to all forms of military arms i.e. swords, rockets, explosives, etc.

    3. Uses the very strong term "infringed", as opposed to restricted, prohibited or the like, so it is clear that the time, effort and cost of jumping through "licensing" hoops is and infringement of the rights afforded under 2A.

    This is the reality of 2A, if you don't like it you need to work to change or amend it, not unconstitutionally infringe it.
    2A is already restricted, just try to get a ballistic missile. The issue is not binary. We changed the country's mind about drinking twice, just saying, it just needs a vocal enough majority. Idiots keep screwing with weapons will make it happen.

    dee
    ;-D

  15. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    26,906
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wp6529 View Post
    I'm afraid I am of the "not one inch" camp on 1A, 2A, 4A, etc. Existing firearms laws are blatant violations of 2A, the current "thought police" climate is a severe threat to 1A, the .gov use of social media as a way around 4A yet another threat. I have young children, and I will not surrender any of their constitutional rights in the name of false security for them or to appease the knee-jerk reactions of the ignorant masses.
    More to it than "constitutional rights". Defense of self, family, extended family, neighbours, village, clan/county, tribe/state, ethnicity/nation - ultimately the race of man against the indifferent cosmos - is DNA deep.

    Any available means and some that are not-even. Deception, obfuscation, or delay, for example.

    Always has been.

    That we are HERE the proof.

    Hair on fire / pants-on fire "sides" need to recognize that, and that it is about BEHAVIOUR, not mechanical "stuff", firearms nor any other ... then go see what can be done.

    Behaviour, AKA "wetware" class of software problem. Not a hardware problem atall.

  16. Likes Scottl, jeffm8622, Elalto liked this post
  17. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    To what level do you want to be armed?
    To whatever level I feel like at the moment frankly. Unless I am actually doing something that harms others it is no business of theirs what I may own. Whether I shoot a muzzleloader, a belt fed machine gun or a cruise missile in a safe manner for my own amusement has no bearing on anyone else. Nor whether I own such things and do nothing but look at them in a rack on my wall.

  18. Likes mhajicek, DrHook, tdmidget, jeffm8622, LockNut and 3 others liked this post
  19. #74
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1741
    Likes (Received)
    5136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wp6529 View Post
    I have young children, and I will not surrender any of their constitutional rights in the name of false security for them or to appease the knee-jerk reactions of the ignorant masses.
    And what are your thoughts when young children are murdered in classrooms or at the mall?

  20. Likes fusker liked this post
  21. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    4,147
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4459
    Likes (Received)
    4335

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Excuse me for barging in, instead of banning guns, ban certain types of ammunition and regulate its sale.

    Tom
    Wouldn't solve anything. Most rifle ammunition suitable for hunting would be equally deadly on humans and the cartridge used in the AR-15 is the MINIMUM legal for deer in many states.

    If by regulating the sale of ammunition you mean something like "one box a month" that won't work because a patient plotter (and most of these buggers are very patient during the planning stage) could simply accumulate a supply over many months. The other thing about limits on purchase is they would severely impact target shooters. Most serious pistol shooters go through hundreds of rounds in a week and the people I shoot clays with routinely shoot 100 or more rounds in a session.

    As for new laws they're only good if they are obeyed and they aren't as iron clad as non gun owners think. In Massachusetts all private transfers are supposed to go through the online FA-10 portal yet people still sell old guns to friends paperless.

    Years ago we adopted an Assault Weapons Ban modeled on the federal one that has since expired. For decades "post ban" models lacking such features as flash hiders and bayonet lugs were sold legally. A while back our current Attorney General issued a notice declaring them to have been sold illegally. Current owners can keep them but they can't transfer them within the state. Meanwhile older pre-ban models are still sold used, with higher prices.

    When several dealers sued over ambiguities regarding the legality of certain other arms the AG issued several clarifications specifically exempting several models that are rapid firing weapons with removable magazines. This includes modern replicas of the U.S. M1 carbine and a civilian version of the M14 battle rifle. Several others that I choose not to name would be deadly in the hands of a maniac.

    And let's say they did ban all semi-auto rifles on a national level. Not all of them would be turned in and if the next mass shooter used a lever-action carbine do we ban those too?

  22. Likes partsproduction liked this post
  23. #76
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,039
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Why, when there are grieving parents of both children and teachers in Newtown ...
    So how about the parents of kids in Syria bombed by the US "to fight ISIS" ? How about wedding parties in Afghanistan murdered by helicopter gunship ? People in a marked hospital in Afghanistan attacked by Puff the Magic Gunship for over an hour ? Nuns in South America tortured by officers trained at Fort Benning ? How about the thousands of drone "mistakes" every year, murdered by the US ?

    There's this thing called karma. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

    You deserve it.

  24. Likes 9100, fusker, rbregn liked this post
  25. #77
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    And what are your thoughts when young children are murdered in classrooms or at the mall?
    My thoughts are that the number killed in such attacks are many decimal places down as a percentage of the population of this free country and while unfortunate they do not in any way justify infringing the freedoms of the vast majority. My opinion would not change if it were me, my wife or my children killed, we are less than a drop in the bucket (4 out of 330,000,000+) and a society so restricted as to prevent any such deaths is not a place worth living in.

  26. #78
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    6,754
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    737
    Likes (Received)
    2317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    And what are your thoughts when young children are murdered in classrooms or at the mall?
    Or thrown from roof tops?

    Pleas of moral superiority on the backs of children is just pathetic,

    Did the fire arm kill the children? or was it the perpetrator? explosions show no bias for the victims.

    If any get a chance to get read a useful review of the Texas shooter's manifesto. I suggest you dive in. The issues held go back some time, cross political and social boarders, and have very little to do with guns. (Other than technical merits of AK-47 and ARs)

    No, the issue is not firearms, it is community

  27. Likes jeffm8622, partsproduction liked this post
  28. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    247
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    78
    Likes (Received)
    208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    So how about the parents of kids in Syria bombed by the US "to fight ISIS" ? How about wedding parties in Afghanistan murdered by helicopter gunship ? People in a marked hospital in Afghanistan attacked by Puff the Magic Gunship for over an hour ? Nuns in South America tortured by officers trained at Fort Benning ? How about the thousands of drone "mistakes" every year, murdered by the US ?

    There's this thing called karma. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

    You deserve it.
    You are the absolute worst waste of a human life you disgusting piece of trash.

  29. Likes Rex TX, partsproduction liked this post
  30. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, New Hampshire
    Posts
    7,389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1741
    Likes (Received)
    5136

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post

    No, the issue is not firearms, it is community
    And if the community is fine with wanton murder of children? If the gun owner is ready to sacrifice his own family for the "ideal" of unconstrained weapons ownership?

    To what church are you folks praying to? Mot? Osiris? Viduus?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •