What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    No, the issue is not firearms, it is community
    Gospel.

    The "ban it" crowd would have folks end buck naked and starved clear to death, they had the least klew how deadly common items of food or clothing can be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    And if the community is fine with wanton murder of children? If the gun owner is ready to sacrifice his own family for the "ideal" of unconstrained weapons ownership?

    To what church are you folks praying to? Mot? Osiris? Viduus?
    Yes and while we are at it lets ban all pools since more children die from them than guns. Also better ban windows on cars so that way they can't die in those either. If it saves just 1 life you know?

    You know what, lets just put every one in prison because after all, we're all good guys with guns until we're not right? Just bottle up the whole world and hunker down in fear for the rest of you life over what MIGHT OR MAY happen.

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  5. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Gospel.

    The "ban it" crowd would have folks end buck naked and starved clear to death, they had the least klew how deadly common items of food or clothing can be.
    I would ban weapons who's sole purpose is mass human killings. Not hunting rifles.

    As for clothing, I suspect the world is a better pace with both you and I in garments, I would not risk the horror of having those taken away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I would ban weapons who's sole purpose is mass human killings. Not hunting rifles.

    As for clothing, I suspect the world is a better pace with both you and I in garments, I would not risk the horror of having those taken away.
    To this date, I would say that most humans in history that have been killed have been killed with "hunting rifles". The common "military assault weapons" of years past was also the common mans hunting gun, and they were much more powerful than today's .223 caliber hyper death ray.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. S. Lewis
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    If you mean precription "opiates" I strongly disagree...that whole thing is a red herring... Now NON prescription opiates is a different matter entirely.

    the real dangerous prescription drugs are the damn antidepressants and crap they hand out like candy...FFS get a dog, a hobby,go to church, or "something"...not saying there are not legit uses for such drugs but c'mon at least try simple first before prescribing a drug that one of the (many) listed side effects are homicidal tendencies...sure seems like if one was so inclined all they would have to do is go to the Dr. and say they are feeling down, get the script,pop one and go kill someone...then say the "drug made me do it" if they get caught...damn, what a mess.

    apologies for the rant, no good answers from me.
    They love to give antidepressents and antianxiety Rx to the very same folks struggling with the lack of access to decent jobs and decent futures...

    That said, some of those psychiatric drugs are truly essential for some folks to help them be stable, stay out of trouble and have a shot at being productive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Gospel.

    The "ban it" crowd would have folks end buck naked and starved clear to death, they had the least klew how deadly common items of food or clothing can be.
    I am not in the ban all at all cost crowd, I advocate that if you have to have one, prove three things, the absolute need, the qualifications you have to operate one, and the insurance to cover liability. Oh, BTW I also want public information that you have one. If you violate any of that you are banished from getting one forever. If you just simply want one you are not qualified to own one. And I do not care what one is if you proved all three things.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I would ban weapons who's sole purpose is mass human killings. Not hunting rifles.

    As for clothing, I suspect the world is a better pace with both you and I in garments, I would not risk the horror of having those taken away.
    Here's where your ignorance blinds you. And badly.

    Who is it tells the difference? And by what means? D'you have the least klew how many kills a competent shot could make with a "hunting rifle" even limited to one shot at a time and (s)he isn't even a Gurkali-speaker? The historical figures might shock you.

    "Ban" affects just whom and just how? Reaches out and enforces itself just HOW? Is it good enough to publish it in the Federal register? How about on the walls of toilet stalls?

    Where are the resources even for "Big Brother" to ENFORCE a ban? Who PAYS even the cost of one day's rations and instant transport at faster than light speeds for the army of a Darth Vader to be "on the scene"?

    Meanwhile, folks can suffer, masturbatory 'paperwork' notwithstanding. Because "paperwork" is all it is until a policeman's tired feet pound pavement. And then (s)he gets lucky, or an armed citizen does. Which happens. A lot.

    A concerned citizen need not even be armed. Here's a heroine for us:

    Texas mass shooting plot foiled by man's grandmother, officials say

    - Not many articles of clothing as cannot be made into an effective garrotte. Shall we ban textiles? How shall we know if there is cheating afoot? Screw the weather, let's all go naked, 24 X 7?

    - D'you for ONE moment believe that only non-English speakers know how to improvise an incendiary or explosive device? Or seek-out such information as to what they did NOT already know?

    - just how hard is it to drive the tractor as pulls a tankerload of fuel, stolen?

    Firearms were designed for one shot, one kill. Reliable ones are HARD to make, as is their ammunition. Whether first of many done rapid, or not, the first shot sends a warning that attracts counter response.

    Oklahoma City Federal Building had no such warning.
    There could have been no post-ignition useful response.

    See also "Twin Towers".

    Suppose the perpetrators of either would have just gone off and enjoyed a glass of 100% organic orange juice had someone but passed another law? What if no one TOLD them there were laws? D'you really think they'd give a damn?

    Fool yourself at your leisure.

    Do not presume to fool those who see the larger picture, and regardless of politics.

    The perpetrators are law BREAKERS! Already. "Ten commandments" or code of Hammurabi onward. In EVERY CASE.

    Think they will CHANGE that over a NEW law? D'you believe you can also get them to un-violate the laws retroactively?

    Why would that be the least bit more impossible? Shall we go for it? Garon-tee Pelosi can get it passed in the House. No joke. Fits left in with everything else HR have been wasting time and money attaching pigs to lipstick over.

    It is about HUMAN BEHAVIOUR. Not about hardware. Nor laws. Of any kind.

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    Dee, assuming that Degrasse-Tyson's numbers in post #27 are accurate, your statement below proves itself highly incorrect.

    Every state did that for cars, a lot less-lethal device.
    Jacques

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And let's say they did ban all semi-auto rifles on a national level. Not all of them would be turned in and if the next mass shooter used a lever-action carbine do we ban those too?
    One would have to be extremely skilled to empty 15 shots and reload one of those in 30 seconds, and oh btw kill 9 people in the process. Much more efficient with an AR right? How much is a human life worth? If one less died in the 30 seconds the Dayton guy had, would that be a small price to pay not having some toys? What other need is there for a rapid-fire rifle?

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I would ban weapons who's sole purpose is mass human killings. Not hunting rifles.

    As for clothing, I suspect the world is a better pace with both you and I in garments, I would not risk the horror of having those taken away.
    Check with Rohingyas on gun types desired.

    OR the Syrian students when the military opened up on them.

    or Revolutionalry Americans when it was time to be free of the Monarch.

    It is happening in our life time, governments against unarmed population, most often citizens.

    If you think it can't happen here, Well, pull your head out of the sand. The seeds are sown with the first breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Here's where your ignorance blinds you. And badly.
    Ignorant? Rhetoric like that serves you poorly. Do not undercut whatever you're trying to present with such nonsense.

    Yes, a determined aggressor can put together all manner of diabolical devices and methods for mass killings. But it's not the work of a moment.

    Unlike a rapid-fire weapon, which serves to aid those having psychotic breaks, or a suddenly angered husband, or a driver who's just been cut off. Or, someone driven to their own internal despair of a moment, but a moment is all it takes (under a minute for nine dead in Ohio: Ohio shooting: gunman killed nine in less than one minute, says mayor – video | US news | The Guardian)

    So these angry young men may go out with a knife, or a baseball bat, or a car, but they will not be building truck bombs. If you wish to conflate these emotional acts with the calculations of a Bin Laden or the long laboring of a Timothy McVeigh, you torture logic beyond anything done at Guantanamo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    One would have to be extremely skilled to empty 15 shots and reload one of those in 30 seconds, and oh btw kill 9 people in the process. Much more efficient with an AR right? How much is a human life worth? If one less died in the 30 seconds the Dayton guy had, would that be a small price to pay not having some toys? What other need is there for a rapid-fire rifle?

    dee
    ;-D
    Yes, it would be too high a price to pay.

    We could prevent vastly more deaths if we banned all types of motor vehicles except for tiny padded cars with a top speed of 25mph. No sports cars, no family sedans, no SUVs, no pickups... just "safe and sane" little sh*t boxes that are incapable of killing anyone, after all what deranged person would want a vehicle capable of killing someone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    How much is a human life worth?

    dee
    ;-D
    Less than human liberty.

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    Media YOU are culpable. DO NOT publish the name, picture, background, "manifesto," or anything else about those responsible for these tragedies. Just use generic terms like "Psychopath," "Murderer," "Perp," etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Less than human liberty.
    So we should all die for freedom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    So we should all die for freedom?
    No, but a great many honerable people have died to obtain and preserve our freedoms, and I'm sure many more will sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Media YOU are culpable. DO NOT publish the name, picture, background, "manifesto," or anything else about those responsible for these tragedies. Just use generic terms like "Psychopath," "Murderer," "Perp," etc.
    Media performs a needed service of holding a mirror up for us to see ourselves. Media does not kill, it is the individual and the demagogue who does the act or agitates for it to be done.

    That said, I would like a rethink about how to identify the perps, as there's some truth to the copycat/glorification aspect being problematic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Media performs a needed service of holding a mirror up for us to see ourselves. Media does not kill, it is the individual and the demagogue who does the act or agitates for it to be done.

    That said, I would like a rethink about how to identify the perps, as there's some truth to the copycat/glorification aspect being problematic.
    The problem is that most of the media is holding up a circus mirror that presents a very distorted view. Anything that gets them viewers and thus advertisers and thus the almighty dollar over all else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    In the ancient world there was no such thing as noncombatants and it was not uncommon to slaughter entire villages including women and children.
    This is still true to this day as EG pointed out. Go back a bit to My Lai or even further in recent history to cavalry vs indians to see entire villages slaughtered.
    My Lai massacre takes place in Vietnam - HISTORY

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    You are the absolute worst waste of a human life you disgusting piece of trash.
    Why? Because he (EG) calls out the USA governments actions around the globe? You dont want to know?

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    Unfortunately, there is not too much we can do to stop a nut job from killing indiscriminately. Using cold (and maybe callus) hard logic, it is clear that the numbers of deaths from what the FBI called "active shooting incidents" is relatively low, and the banning of any sort of weapon based on those number is probably not justified.


    In 2014, the FBI released a study showing that “active shooting incidents” had increased at an average annual rate of 16 percent between 2000 and 2013 (Blair and Schweit, 2014). In contrast to the varied definitions for mass shootings, there is an agreed-upon definition among government agencies for active shooter: “an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area; in most cases, active shooters use firearm(s) and there is no pattern or method to their selection of victims” (U.S. Department of Homeland Security, 2008, p. 2). Using a modified version of this definition to include incidents that had multiple offenders or occurred in confined spaces, Blair and Schweit (2014) found that active shootings had increased from only one incident in 2000 to 17 in 2013.

    You can read the article here: Mass Shootings: Definitions and Trends | RAND

    Using that same cold hard logic, we also recognize that almost anything can be used to kill large numbers of people. Most people never heard of the Bath School massacre. In May of 1927, Andrew Kehoe used explosives to kill 38 elementary school children and six adults and injured another 58. Murderers can always find a way to kill. I wish we could find a way to identify them before they kill.

    The truth is that for every active shooter incident involving a semi-automatic rifle with a large capacity magazine, you can also find another incident that involved a hand gun, shotgun, bolt action rifle (Charles Whitman), explosives (Timothy McVeigh), or stabbing/strangling (Richard Speck).

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