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  1. #1021
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    >>>>The Post-ABC poll finds 86 percent of Americans support implementing “red flag” provisions, which allow guns to be taken from people judged to be a danger to themselves or others. And 89 percent support expanding federal background checks to cover private sales and gun-show transactions. Both measures are supported by at least 8 in 10 Republicans, white evangelical Christians, members of gun-owning households and other traditionally conservative groups.
    <<<<

    Gun owners disagree with the tiny, tiny number of 2nd amendment radicals


    The 2nd Amendment, as it was understood for most of the last 200 years, is at risk because of a small group of right wing radicals who view hiding in fear with a stack of guns as preferable to mutually agreeing on what best to do to create the safest society we can.

    Say your new supreme court rules all gun rules illegal, when 86 percent of the population thinks otherwise?

    What is the eventual outcome if you were a betting man?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    The founding fathers couldn’t possibly fathom gun ownership as we do in the modern era.
    Americans of 1780 had no gun stores. No ammunition stores. No auto loading guns, no brass-jacketed ammunition, etc. There was little difference between military hardware and civilian hardware. The founding fathers could no more conceive that a civilian could purchase a gun that fed and fired multiple brass-jacketed rounds from a magazine than they could conceive of the US military having thermonuclear weapons.
    Yet the homicide rate in that era was 4-5 times what it is now, yet people still keep blaming modern guns and ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Is Jims blatant hatred and racism against whites ever going to be addressed?
    It is pure comedy how modern democrats have taught white people to be ashamed of themselves and spew hatred toward fellow whites. If a doctor perfected a way to do a race change he could make a fortune off of self hating white people.

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  6. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    >>>>The Post-ABC poll finds 86 percent of Americans support implementing “red flag” provisions, which allow guns to be taken from people judged to be a danger to themselves or others. And 89 percent support expanding federal background checks to cover private sales and gun-show transactions. Both measures are supported by at least 8 in 10 Republicans, white evangelical Christians, members of gun-owning households and other traditionally conservative groups.
    <<<<

    Gun owners disagree with the tiny, tiny number of 2nd amendment radicals


    The 2nd Amendment, as it was understood for most of the last 200 years, is at risk because of a small group of right wing radicals who view hiding in fear with a stack of guns as preferable to mutually agreeing on what best to do to create the safest society we can.

    Say your new supreme court rules all gun rules illegal, when 86 percent of the population thinks otherwise?

    What is the eventual outcome if you were a betting man?
    I dunno, what were the odds that Hillary was going to win by those same liberal polls?

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    QT: [The Post-ABC poll finds 86 percent of Americans support implementing “red flag” provisions, which allow guns to be taken from people judged to be a danger to themselves or others. And 89 percent support expanding federal background checks to cover private sales and gun-show transactions. Both measures are supported by at least 8 in 10 Republicans, white evangelical Christians, members of gun-owning households and other traditionally conservative groups.]

    I don't know how they get polls but I know lot of people with many being non hunters and non gun owners...and most are not for taking away guns..I would not mind qualifying for gun ownership but feel it would just be another expense and not do much if anything for crazy people with black market guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    >>>>The Post-ABC poll finds 86 percent of Americans support implementing “red flag” provisions, which allow guns to be taken from people judged to be a danger to themselves or others. And 89 percent support expanding federal background checks to cover private sales and gun-show transactions. Both measures are supported by at least 8 in 10 Republicans, white evangelical Christians, members of gun-owning households and other traditionally conservative groups.
    <<<<
    Can you post the poll for us?

    This is in regards to michiganbucks question about how polls are done.

    Looking at the sample size of the referenced poll, the location of those sampled, and the demographics of the sample will quickly tell you how the polls are constructed. Also, what medium to give the poll can tell a lot about the poll.

    Typically I find most polls laughable at how fraudulent they are. I am hoping the poll gustafson cited is a good poll with good viewable data. I have seen polls that show a sample size of 1500 people, from New Hampshire, and claim that xx% of Americans think "....". Well, yes, the 1500 people are Americans, and they do think "...." but that is hardly representative of what AMERICA as a whole thinks.

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    I believe this is it here: https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-co...2GunPolicy.pdf

    Looking at the questions it's easy to see the ones who wrote it know nothing about fire arms. The way the questions are made might as well be "Do you STILL believe in murdering children? Y/N?"

    Comedy shows the real truth behind such polls.
    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    >>>>The Post-ABC poll finds 86 percent of Americans support implementing “red flag” provisions, which allow guns to be taken from people judged to be a danger to themselves or others. And 89 percent support expanding federal background checks to cover private sales and gun-show transactions. Both measures are supported by at least 8 in 10 Republicans, white evangelical Christians, members of gun-owning households and other traditionally conservative groups.
    <<<<
    "86 percent" seems to be some kind of magic number among pollsters.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    Can you post the poll for us?

    This is in regards to michiganbucks question about how polls are done.

    Looking at the sample size of the referenced poll, the location of those sampled, and the demographics of the sample will quickly tell you how the polls are constructed. Also, what medium to give the poll can tell a lot about the poll.

    Typically I find most polls laughable at how fraudulent they are. I am hoping the poll gustafson cited is a good poll with good viewable data. I have seen polls that show a sample size of 1500 people, from New Hampshire, and claim that xx% of Americans think "....". Well, yes, the 1500 people are Americans, and they do think "...." but that is hardly representative of what AMERICA as a whole thinks.
    This is from the link that CAMasochism provided.

    "This ABC News/Washington Post poll was conducted by landline and cellular telephone Sept. 2-5, 2019, in English and Spanish, among a random national sample of 1,003 adults. Results have a margin of sampling error of 3.5 points, including the design effect. Partisan divisions are 28-24-37 percent, Democrats-Republicans-independents."

    1003 people, out of a population of over 320 million!

    It would be laughable if not for the sad fact that so many people believe these phony polls represent the real views of the American people. These polls are designed to SHAPE opinion, not measure it.

    When polls shape opinion rather than measure it | TheHill

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  17. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    I believe this is it here: https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-co...2GunPolicy.pdf

    Looking at the questions it's easy to see the ones who wrote it know nothing about fire arms. The way the questions are made might as well be "Do you STILL believe in murdering children? Y/N?"

    Comedy shows the real truth behind such polls.
    YouTube
    Thanks for posting this.


    Gustafson, If we use this poll, more people think that mental health treatment would be more effective than more gun laws.

    Shouldn't we then focus on mental health, since people think that would be more effective?

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    You could likely call selected numbers and then claim 85 of Americans think the world is flat.

    Everybody should know it is rounded at three corners and centrally dished at the encabloaboristic region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    I believe this is it here: https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-co...2GunPolicy.pdf

    Looking at the questions it's easy to see the ones who wrote it know nothing about fire arms. The way the questions are made might as well be "Do you STILL believe in murdering children? Y/N?"

    Comedy shows the real truth behind such polls.
    YouTube
    Excellent video!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    The founding fathers couldn’t possibly fathom gun ownership as we do in the modern era.
    Americans of 1780 had no gun stores. No ammunition stores. No auto loading guns, no brass-jacketed ammunition, etc. There was little difference between military hardware and civilian hardware. The founding fathers could no more conceive that a civilian could purchase a gun that fed and fired multiple brass-jacketed rounds from a magazine than they could conceive of the US military having thermonuclear weapons. Or drones. Or radios. Or camouflage uniforms NOT marching in formation.
    This shows how little you know about history. Brass jacketed, no, but how about a semi-auto with a 20-22 round magazine, developed in 1779?

    Girandoni air rifle - Wikipedia
    In Progress -


    The constitution was ratified in 1787. Thomas Jefferson gave some of these rifles to Lewis and Clark, but I'm sure you're right and he couldn't possibly fathom such things.

    How about a lever action repeater from the 1600's?

    Firearms History, Technology & Development: The Kalthoff Repeater

    Have you ever heard of ships? In the 1700's most ships were owned by wealthy private individuals, not by the government. These ships would often carry many cannon, each of which was capable of decimating a crowd with grapeshot or exploding munitions. One ship could destroy a coastal town if not forcibly answered. Yet no one at the time ever suggested banning, limiting, or licencing ships, cannon, or munitions.

    So no, the second amendment was not written with only single-shot muzzle loading muskets in mind.

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    People tell lies to pollsters all the time, especially on subjects like gun ownership that are politically charged. After all, in today's data driven world people suspect answers are linked to their personal data. I have read many claims that gun ownership in the U.S. has declined from over 50% down to something like 30%. Since these estimates are based on self reporting, is that really the case or are many gun owners denying they own guns to stay "off the radar" in a country where in recent years some politicians have openly stated their desire to confiscate guns.

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    If you ever said a cross thing, drank over three beers, gave someone a dirty look, said you don't like something then you are off the safe/approved to own a gun list....Not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    People tell lies to pollsters all the time, especially on subjects like gun ownership that are politically charged. After all, in today's data driven world people suspect answers are linked to their personal data. I have read many claims that gun ownership in the U.S. has declined from over 50% down to something like 30%. Since these estimates are based on self reporting, is that really the case or are many gun owners denying they own guns to stay "off the radar" in a country where in recent years some politicians have openly stated their desire to confiscate guns.
    I know a fair number of people who have lost all their guns in tragic boating accidents.

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  26. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Have you ever heard of ships? In the 1700's most ships were owned by wealthy private individuals, not by the government. These ships would often carry many cannon, each of which was capable of decimating a crowd with grapeshot or exploding munitions. One ship could destroy a coastal town if not forcibly answered. Yet no one at the time ever suggested banning, limiting, or licencing ships, cannon, or munitions.

    So no, the second amendment was not written with only single-shot muzzle loading muskets in mind.
    At the start of the Revolutionary War, the majority of heavy ordnance, field cannons and the such, came from private hands. As the Continental Army grew, taxes were levied, some were purchased from their owners, some were traded for rank and position in the Army, and some were donated.

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    Here's an interesting take on the history of American gun culture and why the author, who supports gun control, feels that guns are "so much a part of our cultural DNA that there will never be truly meaningful gun control in the U.S.".


    And another article about guns by the same author.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Here's an interesting take on the history of American gun culture and why the author, who supports gun control, feels that guns are "so much a part of our cultural DNA that there will never be truly meaningful gun control in the U.S.".


    And another article about guns by the same author.

    I would say the primary reason is that there's no such thing as "meaningful gun control".

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    >>>>The Post-ABC poll finds 86 percent of Americans support implementing “red flag” provisions, which allow guns to be taken from people judged to be a danger to themselves or others. And 89 percent support expanding federal background checks to cover private sales and gun-show transactions. Both measures are supported by at least 8 in 10 Republicans, white evangelical Christians, members of gun-owning households and other traditionally conservative groups.
    <<<<

    Gun owners disagree with the tiny, tiny number of 2nd amendment radicals


    The 2nd Amendment, as it was understood for most of the last 200 years, is at risk because of a small group of right wing radicals who view hiding in fear with a stack of guns as preferable to mutually agreeing on what best to do to create the safest society we can.

    Say your new supreme court rules all gun rules illegal, when 86 percent of the population thinks otherwise?

    What is the eventual outcome if you were a betting man?
    You are making a great point regarding the difference between a poll and statistics. Polls are easily manipulated while statistics (ex:violent crime by state in 2018) are not. Statistics and logic will always trump polls.

    If I polled 1000 people in San Fran about guns, then idaho, would those polls render the same result?


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