What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 58
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 58 of 115 FirstFirst ... 848565758596068108 ... LastLast
Results 1,141 to 1,160 of 2293
  1. #1141
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5608
    Likes (Received)
    5957

    Default

    Hard core gun control types are liars. ALL of them, and they always have been.

    They frequently change tactics and even the names of their organizations to sell an idea that has often met heavy resistance. Their ultimate goal is and always has been to eliminate civilian firearms ownership, or restrict it so severely that there are only an inconsequential amount of gun owners. Crumbs of the cake if you will, per that excellent cartoon analogy.

    They initially pushed to ban handguns, thinking that was an easy sell. Unfortunately for them too many people not only pointed out that the majority of handgun murders involved criminal activity but also how often handguns were used to defend AGAINST criminals.

    Then they shifted to "assault weapons" and had some success because they controlled the media, who were able to demonize "the evil black guns" enough to secure passage of a ban. No doubt those who voted for the ban were encouraged by "scientific polls" showing massive support for a ban but in the only poll that mattered the voters threw them out of office.

    In the intervening years they put all kinds of arguments forward, from child safety and adult accident prevention, licensing schemes and background checks to "screen out bad guys and crazies", to "preventing suicides". Now they've come full circle again, first suggesting another "assault weapons" ban, shifting focus to "background checks" when the first hit major opposition again, and now one of our resident Hard Core gun control types is back to "preventing suicides".

    If it feels like wresting with an eel it's because they are as slippery as eels and it's impossible to have REAL discussions with them because of their constant evasive maneuevers. If they begin to lose ground they either change the subject, revert to insults and name calling, or both.

    And as I said earlier it's all about emotion rather than logic and reason. Argue too successfully against them and it's "You don't care about _______ " (fill in the blank).

  2. Likes mhajicek, Yan Wo liked this post
  3. #1142
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    5,225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    617
    Likes (Received)
    3240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    I don't care about firearm deaths.

    I care about deaths.

    I don't care about gun related violence.

    I care about violence.

    If you ban red sports cars, red sports car related automobile accidents will dramatically decrease, but will it have any effect at all on total automobile accidents?

    I believe efforts should be made to improve mental health and reduce the number of people who want to commit suicide. I also believe that a person has the right to commit suicide if that is their choice, just as I believe that the most basic of human rights is the right to defend one's own life. No one but me should get to decide whether I live or die, and if you attempt to disarm me I see that as a personal attack on my right to live.

    IF you care about deaths, then you should care about firearm related deaths

    With guns only in the hands of those who are trained and responsible, you are much less likely to have to defend your life

    Are red sports cars responsible for 60 percent of vehicle fatalities?

  4. #1143
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5608
    Likes (Received)
    5957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    NAh, CAM just wants to be able to get in a shootout whenever he feels like it

    I mean, really whine whine whine, strawman whine whine
    Emotionally you really are a child aren't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    IF you care about deaths, then you should care about firearm related deaths

    With guns only in the hands of those who are trained and responsible, you are much less likely to have to defend your life

    Are red sports cars responsible for 60 percent of vehicle fatalities?
    Are you stupid or just ignorant" The SS were HIGHLY trained, as were the Soviets who specialized in disposing of dissidents. They were RESPONSIBLE for MILLIONS of deaths, not always by firearm, but they used their firearms (GUNS) to CONTROL their UNARMED victims.

    THOSE are the kind of "firearm related deaths" many of us are most concerned with.


  5. Likes mhajicek liked this post
  6. #1144
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5608
    Likes (Received)
    5957

    Default

    “The Democrats, Nancy Pelosi — they believe they have a winning issue here. So they’re going to force vote after vote on ultimately repealing the Second Amendment right to bear arms. Now, they’re smart enough not to do it all at once. What they will do is attack the right to bear arms incrementally until such time that the number of people who own arms and who believe in the Second Amendment right of self-defense — they will be in a minority and at that point, you can expect that the Democrats will move for an outright repeal of the Second Amendment.”

    Mo Brooks, Republican member of the House of Representatives

  7. Likes mhajicek, tdmidget liked this post
  8. #1145
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,429
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1841
    Likes (Received)
    949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    IF you care about deaths, then you should care about firearm related deaths
    Only as a subset of total deaths. You ONLY cite "firearm deaths", as if other deaths don't matter. You ONLY rant about firearms, and not other preventable deaths.

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Are red sports cars responsible for 60 percent of vehicle fatalities?
    Good question. Let's apply that logic to the gun debate. Are so called "assault weapons" responsible for 60% of preventable deaths? Or even firearms as a whole? Let's take a look:

    Each year, nearly 900,000 Americans die prematurely from the five leading causes of death – yet 20 percent to 40 percent of the deaths from each cause could be prevented, according to a study from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    The five leading causes of death in the United States are heart disease, cancer, chronic lower respiratory diseases, stroke, and unintentional injuries. Together they accounted for 63 percent of all U.S. deaths in 2010, with rates for each cause varying greatly from state to state.
    Up to 40 percent of annual deaths from each of five leading US causes are preventable | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

    So why, we should ask, are our politicians putting all this effort into a tiny little fish, when there are so many, so much larger fish to fry?

  9. Likes tdmidget, Scottl, 9100, Vincent T, lagweezle liked this post
  10. #1146
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    5,225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    617
    Likes (Received)
    3240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Emotionally you really are a child aren't you?



    Are you stupid or just ignorant" The SS were HIGHLY trained, as were the Soviets who specialized in disposing of dissidents. They were RESPONSIBLE for MILLIONS of deaths, not always by firearm, but they used their firearms (GUNS) to CONTROL their UNARMED victims.

    THOSE are the kind of "firearm related deaths" many of us are most concerned with.

    So this is the best you can do?

    really?

    Soviets


    yawn

    My you are trying to avoid responding to on topic posts

  11. #1147
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    606
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    98
    Likes (Received)
    324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I can only tell you that murder and most violent crime rates are lower than they were then

    Blaming the media is a cop out.

    Library to study? Really?
    Not blaming the media for the violence today but how many copy cats do we have from it? Wait for the first mass school shooting this year and let see how long it takes for the next kid to decide on going on a shooting spree. Maybe the movie theater is next or Walmart is next. These shooters seem to be inspired to copy other shooters from the past. Well maybe not a actually library but lets google mass shootings and see what we come up with. How do I turn a semi automatic weapon into a automatic weapon? Perhaps I google the vegas shooting and research what a bump stock can do to my weapon. Point I am making is the media seems to put too much information out there for young/old/twisted minds to learn from.

  12. #1148
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    5,225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    617
    Likes (Received)
    3240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Only as a subset of total deaths. You ONLY cite "firearm deaths", as if other deaths don't matter. You ONLY rant about firearms, and not other preventable deaths.



    Good question. Let's apply that logic to the gun debate. Are so called "assault weapons" responsible for 60% of preventable deaths? Or even firearms as a whole? Let's take a look:


    Up to 40 percent of annual deaths from each of five leading US causes are preventable | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

    So why, we should ask, are our politicians putting all this effort into a tiny little fish, when there are so many, so much larger fish to fry?
    Actually read my posts. I bore of repeating myself

    Oh and preventable deaths, lets see how the right wing responds to those

    gov't attempts to get people to eat better, right hates that
    cancer, don't you dare take my smokes away
    unintentional injuries, osha sucks, 1969 chevelle was the pinnacle of automotive technology


    If the right did not oppose everything, you might have a point

    but we are talking about guns right now

    and guns kill 40k, so basically we are talking about those 40k now

    and, compared to other countries with gun control, and comparing states with gun control with those without, many of those 40k need not die, least not prematurely

  13. #1149
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5608
    Likes (Received)
    5957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Not blaming the media for the violence today but how many copy cats do we have from it? Wait for the first mass school shooting this year and let see how long it takes for the next kid to decide on going on a shooting spree. Maybe the movie theater is next or Walmart is next. These shooters seem to be inspired to copy other shooters from the past. Well maybe not a actually library but lets google mass shootings and see what we come up with. How do I turn a semi automatic weapon into a automatic weapon? Perhaps I google the vegas shooting and research what a bump stock can do to my weapon. Point I am making is the media seems to put too much information out there for young/old/twisted minds to learn from.
    The media's role in these might just be more than just the copycat effect.

    Mass Shootings and Mass Media | Psychology Today

  14. #1150
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    597
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    230
    Likes (Received)
    661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    So this is the best you can do?

    really?

    Soviets


    yawn

    My you are trying to avoid responding to on topic posts

    HAHAHAHAH. You haven't done anything but argue MY FEELINGS!!!! We don't give a shit about your feelings. Bring some truth and facts that prove that firearms do more harm than good that doesn't come from a Bloomberg funded study.

  15. Likes mhajicek liked this post
  16. #1151
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    296
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Actually read my posts. I bore of repeating myself

    Oh and preventable deaths, lets see how the right wing responds to those

    gov't attempts to get people to eat better, right hates that
    cancer, don't you dare take my smokes away
    unintentional injuries, osha sucks, 1969 chevelle was the pinnacle of automotive technology
    People have every right to be too dumb to be healthy, I'm not going to try to force them to live longer
    Also fake news, the 1970 Chevelle was by far the pinnacle of automotive technology

  17. Likes CAMasochism liked this post
  18. #1152
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5608
    Likes (Received)
    5957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    Which of the recent shooters illegally purchased a firearm without a background check?

    edited to add:

    From some relatively quick research, both the Dayton and El Paso shooters legally purchased their firearms completing a background check.

    So which shooters obtained their gun without a background check?
    Sorry to take so long to reply. It took a while.

    The Midland-Odessa shooter apparently bought a gun that was manufactured (assembled) illegally (because it was then sold). He had apparently tried to buy a gun legally and failed the background check.


    The Clackamas Town Center shooter stole his gun from a legal owner.
    The Sandy Hook shooter also stole his gun from a legal owner.

    The following all purchased guns legally after passing background checks.

    Dayton, Ohio (August 4, 2019)
    El Paso, Texas (August 3, 2019)
    Gilroy Garlic Festival (July 28, 2019)
    Virginia Beach attacker (May 31, 2019)
    Poway Synagogue attacker (April 27, 2019)
    Tree of Life Synagogue attacker (October 27, 2018)
    Parkland high school attacker (February 14, 2018)
    Texas church attacker (November 5, 2017)
    Las Vegas attacker (October 1, 2017)
    Alexandria attacker (June 14, 2017))
    Orlando attacker (June 12, 2016)
    UCLA gunman (June 1, 2016))
    San Bernardino attackers (December 2, 2015)
    Colorado Springs attacker (October 31, 2015)
    Umpqua Community College attacker (October 1, 2015)
    Alison Parker’s attacker (August 26, 2015)
    Lafayette movie theater attacker (July 23, 2015)
    Chattanooga attacker (July 16, 2015)
    Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal attacker (Jun 17, 2015)
    Muhammad Cartoon Contest attackers (May 3, 2014)
    Las Vegas cop killers (June 9, 2015)
    Santa Barbara attacker (May 23, 2014)
    Fort Hood attacker (April 2, 2014)
    Arapahoe High School attacker (December 13, 2013)
    D.C. Navy Yard attacker (September 16, 2013)
    Aurora movie theater attacker (July 20, 2012)
    Gabby Giffords’ attacker (January 8, 2011)
    The Fort Hood attacker (November 5, 2009)

    So the short story is that background checks didn't actually STOP any of them.

  19. Likes mhajicek, lagweezle liked this post
  20. #1153
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    296
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    So the short story is that background checks didn't actually STOP any of them.
    That's why they'll want to strengthen the background checks. 56mph in a 55, you sir are unfit to own a firearm, better turn them all in.
    And they'll want you to store them in a casino quality vault complete with finger print, retina, and dna scanner. And if they do get stolen and used in a shooting you go to prison just as long as the shooter.

  21. Likes Scottl liked this post
  22. #1154
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    296
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    272

    Default

    Next they'll go after buying bulk ammunition. At first it will be something "sensible" like no one needs more than 100 rounds a month. But eventually they'll have it so that you have to find the golden ticket in the Wonka bar to be allowed to buy enough shells to shoot a round of trap. And of course there will be a 200% mark up for taxes and fees

  23. #1155
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,314
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5608
    Likes (Received)
    5957

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    That's why they'll want to strengthen the background checks. 56mph in a 55, you sir are unfit to own a firearm, better turn them all in.
    And they'll want you to store them in a casino quality vault complete with finger print, retina, and dna scanner. And if they do get stolen and used in a shooting you go to prison just as long as the shooter.
    Aj H, are you psychic?

    Massachusetts is currently pushing a law that would require all guns and ammo to be in an "approved safe". The wording of the whole law is pretty (intentionally?) vague. They're pretty sketchy about what constitutes an "approved safe" and whether you'd need one in your vehicle for a trip to the range.

    They are also pushing a law that would make gun owners liable for acts committed with stolen guns.


    Beware folks! When one of our local gun grabbers tells you he wants "Massachusetts style laws" applied nationwide this is the kind of gun owner harassment crap you would face. And when he says he supports "shall issue" licensing I suspect his definition is far more restrictive than mine.

  24. Likes mhajicek, lagweezle liked this post
  25. #1156
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    296
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    272

    Default

    Haha no. NY's Gun grabber in chief Cuomo recently passed some more laws to make us all safer, including all firearms must be locked up if you have anyone under 16 in the house

  26. #1157
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Medina OH
    Posts
    2,322
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    324
    Likes (Received)
    1126

    Default

    I mock the foolish who say more of the same will do better

    Something needs to change?
    Absolutely

    Start using your brain

    I use my brain, I am asking you to engage your brain along with me instead of the hype and insults.

    where there are more guns, there are more gun deaths, everywhere

    I post the statistics, silence


    Going back to your posts, I see a lot of references to facts, but no cited sources for those facts.


    That is why I mock, you want to live in a world where the solution to everything is a shootout in the street, fine, put a vending machine full of guns on every street corner

    You get so defensive but then claim that I want to have a shoot out in the street? Where in any of my posts have I said that I wanted to have a shoot out in the street? I do not want to have a shootout ANYWHERE.

    You are safer in Mass than in Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, because we have better education, better health care, and yes, better gun control

    Yes health care is a big part of it

    Health care reduces murder/gun violence? I would be very interested to read that facts backing this statement.

    Here are some fact sheets to substantiate your statement.
    Stats of the State of Massachusetts
    Stats of the State of Texas
    Stats of the State of Alabama
    Stats of the State of Mississippi

    Gun ownership by state
    Massachusetts 22.6%
    Texas 35.7%
    Alabama 48.9%
    Mississippi 42.8%
    http://worldpopulationreview.com/sta...ship-by-state/ (not a great source, but the best I could find)

    But here's the thing

    So you want to play games and pretend to be all rational, that is fine, I am not buying in


    I am not playing a game, and I do not think anything in my posts would lead you to think I am playing games. Unless you and I have a completely different view of what a "game" is.

    More guns, more gun deaths, always

    You have no evidence to the contrary, because this always follows.

    Mass has the same murder rate as South Dakota, and no one lives in SD, they have to go look for people to kill.


    When looking at firearm mortality by state if you do a direct comparison of firearms ownership to the firearms mortality rate per 100k, there are several interesting and notable cases.
    Vermont, a blue state, with very lax gun laws has a 28.8% ownership with a 6.8 firearms mortality
    Virginia, a red state, with lax gun laws has a 29.3% ownership with a 11.5 firearms mortality
    The reason these two caught my attention was the nearly identical ownership rate, but nearly double the firearms mortality rate in Virginia.

    Looking at your two examples, Mass and SD:
    Mass 22.6% ownership, 3.7 firearms mortality rate, 2.6 murder rate
    SD 35% ownership, 11.9 firearms mortality rate, 4.2 murder rate.
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...y/homicide.htm

    If we look at extremes
    Delaware, a blue state, 5.2% ownership, 8.8 mortality
    Rhode Island, a blue state, 5.8% ownership, 3.6 mortality
    New York, a blue state, 10.3% ownership, 5.3 mortality

    Alaska, a red state, 61.7% ownership, 17.5 mortality
    Arkansas, a red state, 57.9% ownership, 15.7 mortality
    West Virginia, a red state, 54.2% ownership, 13.8 mortality

    It seems to me that firearms ownership to firearms mortality rates are not the linear, more guns, more deaths, that you stated. I think that statement actually hurts your argument. Based on your more guns, more deaths, statement, Alaska should have a 12 times higher mortality rate based on its 12 times higher ownership compared to Delaware. 12 times higher ownership, but double the mortality rate.

    The rate numbers are all from the CDC by the way, ownership numbers came from World Population Review. I compiled them into a spreadsheet to make it easier to directly compare murder, firearms mortality, firearms ownership. What is interesting is some states with high gun ownership may have high murder rates, but lower firearms mortality, others have high firearms mortality, but low murder rates. For example, North Dakota, according to the CDC, has a 47.9% ownership, an 13.2 firearms mortality rate, and a whopping 0 murder rate.

    You want to have a rational conversation, stop talking about 'fake news' and start investigating your facts.
    Absolutely none of my posts relate to fake news. I have always investigated my facts, I am asking you to do the same.

    What are the safer places in the country? The ones where there is population density? What are they doing?
    What are they doing differently is the question? And what do you propose is the next?

    Stop reading the NRA newsletter for all your facts
    Unfortunately I do not get a NRA newsletter, and if you look at my posts, not a single one references a poll or data provided by the NRA.

  27. #1158
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Medina OH
    Posts
    2,322
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    324
    Likes (Received)
    1126

    Default

    I am interested to look closer at the numbers. For instance:

    Hawaii is an interesting case where firearms and homicide rate are linear.
    45.1% ownership, 2.5 firearms mortality rate, 2.5 homicide mortality rate.
    What creates this relationship?

    vs a state like Montana

    52.3% ownership, 22.5 firearms mortality rate, 4.3 homicide mortality rate

  28. #1159
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    6,027
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I bore of repeating myself
    What a coincidence ! You bore me, too ! I don't normally do the "ignore" thing but you are such a loop tape of silliness that in this case ...

    (Ignore doesn't work until you are logged in, sigh. I should control myself better, but people keep quoting you

    @ Fat Grunt : read Games People Play. Interesting. Gives you a different viewpoint on what people are doing, socially.

  29. #1160
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    5,225
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    617
    Likes (Received)
    3240

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What a coincidence ! You bore me, too ! I don't normally do the "ignore" thing but you are such a loop tape of silliness that ...

    (Ignore doesn't work until you are logged in, sigh. I should control myself better, but people keep quoting you

    @ Fat Grunt : read Games People Play. Interesting. Gives you a different viewpoint on what people are doing, socially.
    That is really funny from a China based troll, really, reaallly funny

    oh and surpisingly content free


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •