What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 62
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 62 of 115 FirstFirst ... 1252606162636472112 ... LastLast
Results 1,221 to 1,240 of 2293
  1. #1221
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    4,905
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    548
    Likes (Received)
    2971

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Except nothing about what you are offering is anything like a compromise/concession. It's just you taking slightly less than what you really want, giving us the finger in return, and saving the next round of "common sense" for the next shooting when we have to "Do Something" TM again.
    So being able to carry in other states is of no interest

    The essence of politics is finding the compromise. So if that is not acceptable, find something that is

    Oh, wait, your way or the highway, and when that doesn't work, whine

    Fine

  2. #1222
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Medina OH
    Posts
    2,288
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    306
    Likes (Received)
    1105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Never try to change the mind of a hardcore gun type.
    yada yada

    again conspiracy theory language. national firearms licensing boogy man!


    I don't want national licensing because I understand that there are differences between different areas of the country. Something hardcore gun types seem to ignore.

    The exact same rules need not apply in nowhere Montana as the Bronx. That is why we have a republic and why it continues to work.

    What would seem like a good idea is a national licensing standard. Similar in thinking to the way drivers licenses work.

    ANd maybe, if there was a national standard for state issued licenses, you see where I'm going here? Then other states would be required to accept that standard, and the licenses issued in other states.

    You know, the way politics used to work, one side gets something that they want, the other side gets something they want, and everybody is unhappy.

    Beautiful

    Then you wouldn't have the BS that was[is?] going on in NJ throwing people in jail for technical license violations


    If Idaho doesn't want to license guns.
    Whatever
    They just cannot bring them to Montana

    I mean, I imagine Kentucky could choose not to issue drivers licenses, but you couldn't drive out of state, Apparently South Dakota didn't require them till 1954
    Best post you have made this whole thread. It is a Republic, and that is why it continues to work. I especially like your post because you took the time to explain what you really meant and thought could help.

    I have been busy with work, and unfortunately haven't been able to comment like I would. This post though required a response. I found some great information for us regarding the specifics of firearms mortality rates, but will save those for another day. They are... very interesting, when you pull the more detailed information from the CDC.

    You proposed the idea of a state license for firearms owners, similar to a drivers license. Your offering a federally regulated, but state managed licensing system. Can we hash out a few of the mechanics? How would it work? What are the requirements? What is the cost? Renewed every 5 years? How would national reciprocity work?

    I think this could, depending on how it was written and managed, be a viable compromise, because it would take care of some of the issues the left has, while allowing the right to gain traction on several issues that have languished. This is of course... the essence of statesmanship?!

    For example, many on the left want national background checks regardless of where or who is selling the gun. If you have a federally regulated, state managed, license, similar to the drivers license, then you should be able to sell directly to another licensee correct? In most states with concealed carry permits, you do not need to complete a background check if you have a concealed carry license, because they are redundant. In Ohio at least, the majority of the time firearms are sold privately, the seller asks for a concealed carry permit.

    You mentioned South Dakota not requiring drivers licenses. Much of state laws are impacted by federal requirements. South Dakota was essentially forced to issue drivers licenses to receive federal funding, I would have to do some digging, but I believe that was part of the interstate requirements.

    We have agreed that something needs to change. We have agreed that we are a Republic, and these changes require compromise. I personally do not think additional firearms legislation on a national level will reduce mass shootings like we have seen in the last few years. If I pick an example, the fellow who shot up the Garlic Festival in California used, what I understand to be, a rifle that is banned in California under their rules against assault weapons.

  3. #1223
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    69
    Likes (Received)
    185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I have a friend who was a driver at ABC who saw the wreckage of the plane halfway into the pentagon, so that one I think is probaly real. If they had paid him off to create that story he'd be better off than he is
    You may be right, it may be real.
    Something happened, but until I see evidence, my choice is to accept or reject the story proposed by an authoritarian figure.
    This works for people that have been beaten into submission by 12 years of psychological conditioning. But it wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

    "Poof!"
    The cameras weren't working, the bodies have been disposed of, witnesses die unexpectedly or are proven actors, etc.
    And the herd surrenders more of their rights to a "government" that should be under scrutiny.

    The primary goal of those in power is to remain in power.
    The next "reasonable" measures will be to create a data base of who owns which guns.
    I expect that shortly hunters will have to disclose the serial numbers of the firearms they intend to us in order to get a hunting license.
    Meanwhile Eric Holder goes scot free for pedaling firearms to Mexican Drug Lords.
    Viewing the picture as a whole, I have to question whether our government is seeking solutions, or creating problems.

    bigbrother.jpg

  4. Likes mhajicek liked this post
  5. #1224
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    287
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    256

    Default

    Biden and some of the others have finally quit beating around the bush and said they not only want to ban "assault weapons" but go door to door and seize the ones US citizens are in possession of. Biden said as much in an interview with Anderson Cooper. I'm actually glad they finally admitted it and hope they keep it up. If they keep running this far left they'll seal a 2020 red wave.

  6. Likes mhajicek, Scottl, john worden liked this post
  7. #1225
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,533
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ H View Post
    Biden and some of the others ...
    Biden is a turkey. I wouldn't worry about him, if he were the Pied Piper we'd still be inundated in rats.

  8. Likes CAMasochism, john worden liked this post
  9. #1226
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,359
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1771
    Likes (Received)
    922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    The essence of politics is finding the compromise. So if that is not acceptable, find something that is

    Oh, wait, your way or the highway, and when that doesn't work, whine

    Fine
    We have already compromised. And compromised again. And then compromised again, and again, and again, over and over. You gun grabbers keep asking for more and more, and we get nothing in return. That is not compromise.

    You say you want compromise, then what will you offer us in return for licencing our rights? Do we get full auto's back? Will you eliminate the taxes and registrations for SBRs and suppressors? What will you offer us?

    Nothing, I expect. You will continue to whine and make puppy dog eyes asking us why we won't freely give up what's left of our rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    You proposed the idea of a state license for firearms owners, similar to a drivers license.
    I strongly oppose ownership licencing. If it's licenced, it's not a right. How about we try it out with speech licencing first? If you want to voice an opinion in public you must first pass a test for intelligence and knowledge. Some government agency will decide what the "correct" answers are. If you voice an opinion that a government agency deems harmful you lose your license forever. Sound fair?

  10. Likes john worden, tdmidget liked this post
  11. #1227
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,068
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5497
    Likes (Received)
    5728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    NI don't want national licensing because I understand that there are differences between different areas of the country. Something hardcore gun types seem to ignore.

    The exact same rules need not apply in nowhere Montana as the Bronx. That is why we have a republic and why it continues to work.

    What would seem like a good idea is a national licensing standard. Similar in thinking to the way drivers licenses work.

    ANd maybe, if there was a national standard for state issued licenses, you see where I'm going here? Then other states would be required to accept that standard, and the licenses issued in other states.

    You know, the way politics used to work, one side gets something that they want, the other side gets something they want, and everybody is unhappy.

    Beautiful

    Then you wouldn't have the BS that was[is?] going on in NJ throwing people in jail for technical license violations


    If Idaho doesn't want to license guns.
    Whatever
    They just cannot bring them to Montana

    I mean, I imagine Kentucky could choose not to issue drivers licenses, but you couldn't drive out of state, Apparently South Dakota didn't require them till 1954
    We might actually have some common ground there … IF you mean a national standard for Concealed Carry Reciprocity – for HANDGUNS only.

    In the system I envision the internal affairs of states would still be their own business and states like Vermont could still allow Constitutional carry WITHIN THEIR OWN BORDERS, but states who chose to would offer a concealed carry license that met all federal standards and such a license would be accepted by all states who did the same.

    If on the other hand what you are “offering” is to trade states’ rights so that a small subset of gun owners could carry in other states I firmly reject what would be a Devil’s Bargain. And I say that as someone who has already repeatedly qualified under one of the toughest “may issue” standards. I won’t trade others’ rights for my privilege.

  12. #1228
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    69
    Likes (Received)
    185

    Default

    Guilty until proven innocent.
    You Doctor may be able to do this to you as well.
    Chip, chip, chip...

    Red Flag Laws

    California demorat calls for expansion of red flag laws: Employers, co-workers & teachers can petition to take away your guns – Investment Watch

  13. Likes john worden liked this post
  14. #1229
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    8,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1403
    Likes (Received)
    3073

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    We have already compromised. And compromised again. And then compromised again, and again, and again, over and over. You gun grabbers keep asking for more and more, and we get nothing in return. That is not compromise.

    You say you want compromise, then what will you offer us in return for licencing our rights? Do we get full auto's back? Will you eliminate the taxes and registrations for SBRs and suppressors? What will you offer us?

    Nothing, I expect. You will continue to whine and make puppy dog eyes asking us why we won't freely give up what's left of our rights.



    I strongly oppose ownership licencing. If it's licenced, it's not a right. How about we try it out with speech licencing first? If you want to voice an opinion in public you must first pass a test for intelligence and knowledge. Some government agency will decide what the "correct" answers are. If you voice an opinion that a government agency deems harmful you lose your license forever. Sound fair?
    There is a point being made here.

    Are we "safer" with the fire arm's laws and restrictions that are in place? Perhaps the minds of those who wish to do harm are the greater danger. Can we get that taken care of?

    What do "gun people" get in compromise for what they give up?

    I feel the 2nd is not about my personal safety from crazy persons. Rather it is incentive for those who would plan greater injustice to consider again.

  15. Likes Scottl, lagweezle liked this post
  16. #1230
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,533
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I feel the 2nd is not about my personal safety from crazy persons. Rather it is incentive for those who would plan greater injustice to consider again.
    I think you are being paranoid. I mean, the US government would never put people in concentration camps or anything like that.

  17. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  18. #1231
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    551
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    213
    Likes (Received)
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I think you are being paranoid. I mean, the US government would never put people in concentration camps or anything like that.
    And they certainly wouldn't order the National Guard to a protest at a University leading to the participants murders.

  19. Likes 9100, tdmidget, lagweezle liked this post
  20. #1232
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    511
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    88
    Likes (Received)
    269

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    We have already compromised. And compromised again. And then compromised again, and again, and again, over and over. You gun grabbers keep asking for more and more, and we get nothing in return. That is not compromise.

    You say you want compromise, then what will you offer us in return for licencing our rights? Do we get full auto's back? Will you eliminate the taxes and registrations for SBRs and suppressors? What will you offer us?

    Nothing, I expect. You will continue to whine and make puppy dog eyes asking us why we won't freely give up what's left of our rights.
    Not a gun grabber but something has to change with the gun violence we have today. What would you propose we do that allows law abiding citizens to keep their guns and my kids going to school, the movie theater, Walmart, etc without the worry of getting shot or killed? I am more scared of the kids today than grown ups. What can we do to curve the violence and satisfy both sides? I don't know but I am willing to listed to possible solutions.

  21. #1233
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dewees Texas
    Posts
    2,747
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I think you are being paranoid. I mean, the US government would never put people in concentration camps or anything like that.
    Since you do not live here, you may not know that it has already happened here. Internment camps concentration camps are pretty much the same. Also people have been put in prison for not taking up arms.

  22. #1234
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    5,499
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2189
    Likes (Received)
    2712

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    And they certainly wouldn't order the National Guard to a protest at a University leading to the participants murders.
    I think there is more to that story... Alot of young guardsman, a reported "bang" and these guys got scared and fired, AGAINST orders. Not saying it was justified, but how many here have stared down an angry mob? Sure you can argue it was a peaceful protest and all, but what if you were trying to get to class (or whatever) and a bunch of people got in your face, I am sure alot of us would be scared of possible physical violence.

    I'm not advocating "shoot first ask questions later". Heat of the moment and all....

    Reminds me of a very recent case where a guy got knocked down by a thug (yea, he is a thug from what I have seen, insert blame media here, anyways). The assailant advanced on him as the victim was sitting on the ground, the victim pulled a gun and fired. Well to be honest, the victim did not present the facts according to the cc tapes, but still seems shaky to me, in regards to

    A) had he not had a gun, the assailant would have continued his advance and beaten the guy on the ground
    B) he pulled his gun and apparently fired in one motion (ie he did not threaten the guy, just aimed and shot apparently)
    C) how many would do this different? I don't know, just asking, and a little bit of rant to CAMasochism post that they were "murdered"

  23. #1235
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,359
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1771
    Likes (Received)
    922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Not a gun grabber but something has to change with the gun violence we have today. What would you propose we do that allows law abiding citizens to keep their guns and my kids going to school, the movie theater, Walmart, etc without the worry of getting shot or killed? I am more scared of the kids today than grown ups. What can we do to curve the violence and satisfy both sides? I don't know but I am willing to listed to possible solutions.
    Great question. Here's my answer. You and your kids need to consider potential dangers in proportion to the actual chance of your being subjected to them. What is the probability that you or your kid will be killed in a mass shooting? It's pretty darned small. Using the numbers from 2018, we see 1207 killed, out of a population of 327.2 million. That means your chance of dying in a mass shooting is one in 271,085, not accounting for race, wealth, or location. If we take those factors into account, if you're an inner city gang member, it's much higher. If you're not, it's much lower. For comparison, your chance of dying from accidental poisoning is one in 5,027 per year, and death by motor vehicle is one in 8,096 per year, yet we don't see politicians campaigning on promises to reduce those deaths, because they're not scary enough.

    The reason that you're afraid of being killed in a mass shooting isn't because it's at all likely, it's because it's what the media and the politicians are telling you to be afraid of. They do this purely out of self interest. For the media, blood sells. For the politicians, they have to have a boogey man to get people scared of so that they can present themselves as your savior and get your vote.

  24. #1236
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    8,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1403
    Likes (Received)
    3073

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Not a gun grabber but something has to change with the gun violence we have today. What would you propose we do that allows law abiding citizens to keep their guns and my kids going to school, the movie theater, Walmart, etc without the worry of getting shot or killed? I am more scared of the kids today than grown ups. What can we do to curve the violence and satisfy both sides? I don't know but I am willing to listed to possible solutions.
    Do the math

    What weapons are used for the majority of homicides by firearm?

    Answer: Pistols.

    If you want to "save a life" through "gun control", start there.

    Get to the hammers and kitchen knives before moving to long guns. Numbers don't lie.

  25. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  26. #1237
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,359
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1771
    Likes (Received)
    922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    Since you do not live here, you may not know that it has already happened here. Internment camps concentration camps are pretty much the same. Also people have been put in prison for not taking up arms.
    I believe EG was being sarcastic. We had concentration camps for the Japanese during WWII, we have them for prison system inmates (yes, many prisons have high density and inadequate food, water, sanitation, and temperature control, thereby meeting the definition), in addition to those currently run by ICE (again, they do meet the definition.)

  27. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  28. #1238
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,359
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1771
    Likes (Received)
    922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Do the math

    What weapons are used for the majority of homicides by firearm?

    Answer: Pistols.

    If you want to "save a life" through "gun control", start there.

    Get to the hammers and kitchen knives before moving to long guns. Numbers don't lie.
    What's the common factor in ALL homicides?

    A person that wants to kill. Start there. If you still have homicides after dealing with those, then it's time to look at the weapons.

  29. Likes CalG, Scottl, lagweezle liked this post
  30. #1239
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,068
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5497
    Likes (Received)
    5728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Not a gun grabber but something has to change with the gun violence we have today. What would you propose we do that allows law abiding citizens to keep their guns and my kids going to school, the movie theater, Walmart, etc without the worry of getting shot or killed? I am more scared of the kids today than grown ups. What can we do to curve the violence and satisfy both sides? I don't know but I am willing to listed to possible solutions.
    No disrespect meant but I think you are falling into a mass media created trap. "Gun violence" is a catchy phrase that lumps all types of things together including suicides, war between criminals, and the VERY rare mass shooting events.

    Mother Jones has done the best job of listing data for all the non gang-related events, going back to 1982. Over this 37 year period there were 941 fatalities and 1431 injuries due to these incidents. While these numbers represent tragedy for the victims and their families these are tiny numbers in a population of over 300 million people, just over 25 killed and just under 39 injured per year.

    To put it in perspective, on average over 100 people are killed by trees every year in the U.S.

    Fear death from tree limbs, not terrorists - The Boston Globe

    So what can be done? For suicides increased access to mental health resources has been proven to have the greatest effect and when guns are removed suicides don't drop, they just use different methods to kill themselves.

    Many of the shootings in the Mother Jones database were workplace shootings, often in retaliation for being fired. I have not yet had time to separate them out to see what the figures are for those rare cases where someone shoots random strangers. The thing to keep in mind about workplace killings is that of the great many people who are fired each year MOST do not come back and attack coworkers and bosses.

    Improved mental health MAY catch some of the random stranger shooters but I wouldn't hold my breath that it will catch the majority. Same for red flag laws which have the serious flaw of doing NOTHING about the person other than depriving them of existing weapons, leaving them free to acquire more or choose a different method of attack.

    I know gun control seems an obvious "no brainer" to many people but as someone who grew up in a time before most modern gun laws, a time when there were almost no incidents of the type we fear today, I say if gun control really worked we wouldn't be having this discussion today. The gun control freaks are like the "doctors" of centuries ago whose response to every illness was "bleed the patient". No matter how sick the patient gets they still want to bleed the patient one more time. We need to diagnose the illness correctly if we are to cure the patient.

  31. Likes mhajicek, lagweezle liked this post
  32. #1240
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    69
    Likes (Received)
    185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Do the math

    What weapons are used for the majority of homicides by firearm?

    Answer: Pistols.

    If you want to "save a life" through "gun control", start there.

    Get to the hammers and kitchen knives before moving to long guns. Numbers don't lie.
    In fairness, a large number of crimes are prevented because of handguns, but statistics of what did not happen are hard to collect.

  33. Likes john worden liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •