What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 63
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 63 of 115 FirstFirst ... 1353616263646573113 ... LastLast
Results 1,241 to 1,260 of 2293
  1. #1241
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,072
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5497
    Likes (Received)
    5728

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    In fairness, a large number of crimes are prevented because of handguns, but statistics of what did not happen are hard to collect.
    That's because in many cases where the bad guy retreats and no shots are fired the incident never gets reported. I know of several such cases involving friends.

  2. Likes john worden, Yan Wo, lagweezle liked this post
  3. #1242
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    7,726
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1986
    Likes (Received)
    3699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That's because in many cases where the bad guy retreats and no shots are fired the incident never gets reported. I know of several such cases involving friends.
    Now you know of one more. I was leaving the shop one night when I saw a mugging in progress. I went back in and got my 1911, ran down the block and chased the perps away. I didn't shoot anyone, for which I am eternally grateful, and the police caught the muggers. I had the time it takes to run about 175 feet to think it over and for an instant considered the possibility of retaliation. Since I feel that we can either defend ourselves or give the streets to the animals, it was an easy decision. I am going to keep my guns and if you take all my guns, you will not get all my guns, at least not without a lot of scopolamine.

    As I have observed before, a .45 muzzle is one hell of a behavior modifier.

    Bill

  4. #1243
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    8,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    587
    Likes (Received)
    6332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That's because in many cases where the bad guy retreats and no shots are fired the incident never gets reported. I know of several such cases involving friends.
    While we're counting hypotheticals, seems we also don't report incidents where people get talked down from an assault either - including with patient cops.

    Who'd a thunk -- it's actually possible to resolve a majority of disputes without a gun in hand?

    I'm fine with a gun around for home defense, properly secured so kids don't shoot each other or it's easily stolen. Count myself among those so prepared. But somehow I don't imagine a safer society with anyone who wants to carry, no background checks, armed and just waiting to get pissed or pissed off.

  5. #1244
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Vt USA
    Posts
    8,736
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1403
    Likes (Received)
    3073

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Now you know of one more. I was leaving the shop one night when I saw a mugging in progress. I went back in and got my 1911, ran down the block and chased the perps away. I didn't shoot anyone, for which I am eternally grateful, and the police caught the muggers. I had the time it takes to run about 175 feet to think it over and for an instant considered the possibility of retaliation. Since I feel that we can either defend ourselves or give the streets to the animals, it was an easy decision. I am going to keep my guns and if you take all my guns, you will not get all my guns, at least not without a lot of scopolamine.

    As I have observed before, a .45 muzzle is one hell of a behavior modifier.

    Bill
    The sound of a chambering round in front of a closing bolt is quite an attention grabber as well. Especially in the dark. ;-)

  6. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  7. #1245
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,533
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    While we're counting hypotheticals, seems we also don't report incidents where people get talked out of an assault either - including with cops. Who'd a thunk -- it's actually possible to resolve a majority of disputes without a gun in hand?
    When there's three of them and one of you, that little 38 is a nice thing to have. This happened to me one night leaving work.

    Yes, I could have peed my pants, run away, called the cops but why should I have to ? You can carry that do-gooder crap too far.

    (I made them leave their burglary tools behind and the guys next door are still laughing about it.)

  8. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  9. #1246
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dewees Texas
    Posts
    2,747
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    29
    Likes (Received)
    835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    I believe EG was being sarcastic.
    Sorry,
    I missed that.

  10. #1247
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    8,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    587
    Likes (Received)
    6332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    When there's three of them and one of you, that little 38 is a nice thing to have. This happened to me one night leaving work.

    Yes, I could have peed my pants, run away, called the cops but why should I have to ? You can carry that do-gooder crap too far.

    (I made them leave their burglary tools behind and the guys next door are still laughing about it.)
    Manny, I gather you left the US for China, and keep telling us what a better place it is, because they'd let both let you have weapons at home and carry on the streets -- all without so much as a background check?

    Or that you're listing the United Kingdom as your apparently second favorite place to reside on earth because everyone carries without so much as a background check?

  11. #1248
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    251
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    69
    Likes (Received)
    185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    While we're counting hypotheticals, seems we also don't report incidents where people get talked down from an assault either - including with patient cops.

    Who'd a thunk -- it's actually possible to resolve a majority of disputes without a gun in hand?

    I'm fine with a gun around for home defense, properly secured so kids don't shoot each other or it's easily stolen. Count myself among those so prepared. But somehow I don't imagine a safer society with anyone who wants to carry, no background checks, armed and just waiting to get pissed or pissed off.
    You are the only one talking about hypotheticals.
    I was talking about facts.
    My mere possession of a handgun has prevented an escalation in violence -both in the city and in the wood. On several occasions. No Cops around.

    Study up before spouting off.

    The Armed Citizen

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/the-armed-citizen


    "But somehow I don't imagine a safer society with anyone who wants to carry, no background checks, armed and just waiting to get pissed or pissed off."

    This is an entire fantasy fabricated to create your straw man argument.
    You want to paint a picture of every citizen carrying a pistol as some how crazed and foaming at the mouth.

    Instead of proven solutions, you want the rest of us to surrender our rights to an authoritarian figure that has been proven to abuse those powers.

    Arizona state trooper arrested on 61 sex-related, kidnapping and fraud counts - YourDestinationNow
    and
    NYPD Cops Who Raped Teen Anna Chambers Get No Jail Time

  12. #1249
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    25,768
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    I didn't shoot anyone, for which I am eternally grateful, and the police caught the muggers.
    Bill
    Don't suppose you considered the possibility of blundering into the police while waving the gun about. Could have
    ended badly.

  13. #1250
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    19,147
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Not a gun grabber but something has to change with the gun violence we have today. What would you propose we do that allows law abiding citizens to keep their guns and my kids going to school, the movie theater, Walmart, etc without the worry of getting shot or killed? I am more scared of the kids today than grown ups. What can we do to curve the violence and satisfy both sides? I don't know but I am willing to listed to possible solutions.
    Nationwide CC licenses.
    Anywhere, anytime.
    We, the law abiding are owed this as a minimum.

  14. Likes john worden, lagweezle liked this post
  15. #1251
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,533
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Manny, I gather you left the US for China, and keep telling us what a better place it is, because they'd let both let you have weapons at home and carry on the streets -- all without so much as a background check?
    You are inventing things. Lots of things. Even the cops in China don't have guns, that's silly.

    I have never "told you what a better place it is", because you can't say "this place is better than that place" (unless you're talking about a gulag or something.) Different people have different wants and needs. Different places will suit different people better.

    What I have attempted to do is, when people spout what imo is unthinking shit, either about the US or China, then I try to present a different view.

    You seem to have a thin skin. For a person who sees himself as a thoughtful, rational type, that's not a good sign You frequently complain about 'partisan politics' but you tend to be pretty partisan yourself.

    Or that you're listing the United Kingdom as your apparently second favorite place to reside on earth because everyone carries without so much as a background check?
    I thought you were literate ? Get with the program, hippy. There's no Airstrip One in the dropdowns, UK is the closest I could get.

    Free speech, oh yeah, want to discuss that ? Maybe we can get Scottl over here, too ....

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Don't suppose you considered the possibility of blundering into the police while waving the gun about. Could have ended badly.
    Not a chance. The donut shop was six blocks the other way.

  16. #1252
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    8,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    587
    Likes (Received)
    6332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    . . . This is an entire fantasy fabricated to create your straw man argument.
    You want to paint a picture of every citizen carrying a pistol as some how crazed and foaming at the mouth. . .
    No.

    It's a small percentage of citizens who are "some how crazed and foaming at the mouth." Which is why we should have universal background checks and better enforce our laws.

    The discussion here is much like the notion that the world will be a safer place if everyone has access to WMD. Mutual assured destruction might work when there are a few rational players with nukes, say the USSR and the USA or a maybe a crook who doesn't want to lose his life when confronted with a homeowner pumping a shell into ready.

    But there's a reason we don't want to see proliferation of WMDs to every nutcase regime around the world (Islamic Revolutionary Guard, Kim, Al Queda, ISIS, maybe Pakistan as nuke merchants to the world, or your garden variety doomsday cult -- which ones do you want to give a pass?).

    It is for very much the same reason we shouldn't want the 3 million (or so) psychopaths, rage-a-holics, and the violent mentally ill among us to be carrying their very own mini WMD everywhere they go.

  17. #1253
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    8,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    587
    Likes (Received)
    6332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You are inventing things. Lots of things. Even the cops in China don't have guns, that's silly. . .
    Just pointing out the irony of advocating for a .38 in every pocket, while personally choosing to live in a place where very few can even have guns -- and those few pretty carefully watched.

    What does continue to surprise me along the Orwell-1984-AirstripOne lines and your Emanuel Goldstein persona is how you see Big Brother everywhere in the still relatively free country you left (even California has "may carry" laws), and pretty much nowhere in the world's largest dictatorship (with the closest thing yet to thought control) that's now home.

    I'd agree with you that the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction on some issues -- but China is hardly the benchmark for freedom whether on the equivalent of 1st or 2nd Amendment rights or much of anything else.

  18. #1254
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    7,726
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1986
    Likes (Received)
    3699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Don't suppose you considered the possibility of blundering into the police while waving the gun about. Could have
    ended badly.
    The whole incident didn't take as long as it took to write about it. I pointed the gun at them and they jumped in their car and left. I didn't wave it at all. While I was helping the victim pick up various items, a patrol car came by and we told the officer what had happened. He went after them but didn't catch up and came back. While we were sitting in the car working on the report, another officer notified us that he had captured the perps.

    Should I have done the "I don't want to get involved bit" and let it go on? Calling the police would probably meant they would get there after it was over. I felt that I acted as a proper citizen and you would be amazed at how little I care whether you approve or not.

    Bill

  19. #1255
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,360
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1772
    Likes (Received)
    922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    But there's a reason we don't want to see proliferation of WMDs to every nutcase regime around the world (Islamic Revolutionary Guard, Kim, Al Queda, ISIS, maybe Pakistan as nuke merchants to the world, or your garden variety doomsday cult -- which ones do you want to give a pass?).
    That's a good point. The related problem I see is this.

    1. Technology will continue to progress, unless a global disaster wipes us out or knocks us back to the stone age.
    2. As technology progresses, it becomes ever easier for people to make whatever they may want, including weapons of varied power.
    3. When technology progresses far enough, it will become trivial for anyone to make anything they want, including WMD's.

    There are only two long term solutions I can think of. One is total surveillance and complete authoritarianism to prevent people from doing it. The other is to get people to be nice to each other. Neither is easy, but I strongly prefer the second option.

  20. Likes 9100, lagweezle liked this post
  21. #1256
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,533
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    I'd agree with you that the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction on some issues -- but China is hardly the benchmark for freedom whether on the equivalent of 1st or 2nd Amendment rights or much of anything else.
    Shee-it ... no offense but you don't have the slightest inkling of a klew. It's as if you read about these subjects somewhere (in a bad translation) but never came across them in real life.

    You are off in lalaland, Mr Pete sir, and don't even know it. You get around it by saying, "Oh those freedoms, well of course we can't allow that, but you can criticize the president !"

    Like, who gives a fuck, Jack ? I want to be unmolested when I fix the back porch or park the RV in the (fenced) back yard, and I don't give a tinker's damn if the president humps every sheep in Montana. Your freedoms are pretty worthless, while the ones I care about happen every day.

    Besides which, in your lovely democracy, everything looks very pretty but what people actually want doesn't count for crap. Obviously a lot of people want to keep their guns in the US, and the damned Law of the Land specifically says they get to. But in your Home of the Free, by Jove there will one day be so many "reasonable regulations" that ownership will be a pitiful joke or you'll know the reason why not.

    In many ways you are a fraud, PeteM. A well-meaning fraud but you have no idea what freedom really means. None.

  22. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  23. #1257
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Northern Il
    Posts
    1,525
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    777
    Likes (Received)
    1384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    The whole incident didn't take as long as it took to write about it. I pointed the gun at them and they jumped in their car and left. I didn't wave it at all. While I was helping the victim pick up various items, a patrol car came by and we told the officer what had happened. He went after them but didn't catch up and came back. While we were sitting in the car working on the report, another officer notified us that he had captured the perps.

    Should I have done the "I don't want to get involved bit" and let it go on? Calling the police would probably meant they would get there after it was over. I felt that I acted as a proper citizen and you would be amazed at how little I care whether you approve or not.

    Bill
    You indirectly bring up a point in what has changed in our culture. Prior to the late 60's, the police were usually considered honorable. There was also an expectation that we all as citizens needed to get involved in maintaining order.

    Several things happened in the late 60s that changed how the population interacts with the low enforcement and how law enforcement expected the population to act.

    Prior to 9/11, the authorities had held the position that passengers on a plane or a group in a hostage situation were instructed and expected to do nothing and let the "Professionals" handle the problem and everything would be alright. 9/11 changed that in that suddenly, we came to the reality that there were bad people that actually wanted to kill people just to kill them as part of a long range plan. Prior to this there was a general naive mentality that everyone can be negotiated with to an acceptable means even if you had to give them everything they wanted.

    This philosophy did much to entrench a law enforcement vs. the citizens attitude on both sides. The fact is, law enforcement and the judicial system cannot function without the support and involvement of the citizens.

    Chuck Colson years ago made a comment about the world view the Founding Fathers had about the criminal justice system. They viewed that crimes were committed by a perpetrator against a victim. The purpose of the judicial system was to restore the damages to the crime victim and hopefully the criminals punishment not only was to aid in restoring the victim but to also act as a deterrent to more bad behavior and hopefully a change in ways.

    Today, the world view of the justice system is that all crimes are crimes against the Crown or King and restitution goes to the Crown. The victim and their damages are not usually considered. This has lead us to a place were crimes are more of a formality, fines only go to the government, and nobody is really very interested in getting involved.

    Your actions in your situation probably were a much better deterrent to the perps than the police catching them. Thugs like it when they get to be the tough guys but it it is not very good when they get out thugged.

  24. Likes lagweezle liked this post
  25. #1258
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    8,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    587
    Likes (Received)
    6332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    . . .

    Like, who gives a fuck, Jack ? I want to be unmolested when I fix the back porch or park the RV in the (fenced) back yard, and I don't give a tinker's damn if the president humps every sheep in Montana. Your freedoms are pretty worthless, while the ones I care about happen every day. . .
    Manny, right this summer I've been messing with both my front and side decks. Unmolested. Used to have an RV one house ago -- and parked it in the front driveway. Who knew? Real freedom of the porch repair and RV parking sort is apparently still pretty much alive here in the U.S. of A.

    But since RVs and RV parking are apparently the new measure of real (no fraud here) freedom around the world -- there are about 50,000 of them in China, a country approaching 1,500,000,000 people. Here in the miserable US there are about 9,000,000 RV's, parked or moving freely, in a country approaching 350,000,000. I'd guess we also have more of a DIY culture (those front porches), but don't really know. Do know we still have 1st and 2nd Amendment rights -- and apparently unlike you -- I think they count for something.

    As for your image of Trump humping every sheep in Montana, because, well they let him? Might not be a bad use of his time, but I'm wondering how that would go over in China -- suggesting the same for Xi?? The important thing about our 1st Amendment isn't so much that we're free to criticize, but rather than we're free to expose our own fraudsters and, if of the political type, vote them out of office. Lot harder to do in a nation with control of the media, tracking everywhere, and a leader for life. You might get Singapore (the face of benevolent dictatorship). You might (and eventually almost surely) might not.

  26. Likes john worden liked this post
  27. #1259
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    5,533
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    The important thing about our 1st Amendment isn't so much that we're free to criticize, but rather than we're free to expose our own fraudsters
    Oh absolutely ! That's why Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein are in prison right now !


    You seem to have a fixation on "leader for life". FDR was leader for sixteen years. In fact, until his life ended. No biggy to me. In fact, this fixation with terms seems kinda stupid. If they are bad, throw them out. If they are good, keep them forever. Term limits mean you've replaced a fairly decent Jerry Brown with the slimeball who now runs California. Oooh, good idea.

    I'll take 'governor for life' over THAT !

  28. #1260
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    8,874
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    587
    Likes (Received)
    6332

    Default

    Well I'd agree with you that Jerry Brown, third and fourth times around, was a far better governor than Newsom has been in his first. Democracy sometimes gets us a Newsom or a Trump, promising the moon to one group or another. Especially to the extent we let vested interests have their way with us and our political parties are being dragged hard left and hard right.

    But, it also provides ways of fixing bad decisions: recalls, the courts, impeachment, maybe just a better candidate next time.

    The problem I have with Xi (Kim, Putin, Assad, Khomeini, the Saudi etc. style) dictators for life, is the way to throw them out is with an armed revolution -- not the ballot box. And when that dictator has full control of the press, Internet, phones, army, police, courts, advanced surveillance, when the government even ranks the "social credit" of each citizen -- and there's no 1st or 2nd Amendment -- the chances of that are pretty dim.

    Xi isn't the worst dictator in the world, but then lots of dictators start out with some promise of reform and end up ravaging the rights of their people (or, in the case of the more ambitious despots like a Hitler or Stalin, the rest of us).

  29. Likes lagweezle liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •