What can we as individuals or a group do about gun violence? - Page 67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    Did anyone else look at the photographs and notice that Stephen Paddock was able to shoot over 500 people but only leave a few dozen empty cartridges on the floor? Or check to see that his girlfriend was last employed by the FBI? Or Wonder why the most important witness to the largest mass shooting in America was whisked out of the country immediately before he was to appear before a hearing. Or that Sheldon Adelson, Trump's financial Sugar Daddy appeared at the White House within 72 hours to instruct Trump to make the Bump Stocks illegal? The list of serious questions go on. And while there may be many questions, there is no doubt you were lied to by the very people that want to take your guns away.

    Listen for yourself and tell me there was a crazed lone gunman.
    YouTube

    The slow heavy stuff are .30 cals.

    Attachment 265305
    Baloney

    consiracy theory bs

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Expanding on the bump stock ban; very few gun owners will strongly oppose such a ban IF it's worded well. If, on the other hand, it's worded so as to ban anything that can increase your rate of fire, then it bans things like performance triggers, lightweight bolts, or even oiling your gun. It would also ban belt loops and string, as they can be used to bump fire. It could also be construed so as to ban being fat; here's a guy using his belly as a bump stock:

    YouTube
    Why wouldn't normal people agree with this?

    Again, if you participate in the debate instead of stomping your feet and crying, then you can help craft legislation

    absolutists of any stripe will lose in the long term

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    Listen for yourself and tell me there was a crazed lone gunman.
    Definitely at least two shooters in different locations. One of the commentors under your video said he recognized the sound as an M240B:

    YouTube

    Sounds about right to me.

    Another odd thing is how intermittent it was. There would be a string of shots, then a long pause, then another string of shots. That's not how someone looking to maximize effectiveness would act.

    On bump stocks:

    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Why wouldn't normal people agree with this?

    Again, if you participate in the debate instead of stomping your feet and crying, then you can help craft legislation

    absolutists of any stripe will lose in the long term
    According to ALL the dnc front runners, it starts with a buyback and registration. It does not end there. I am still amazed that with all our posted statistics and logic you namecall and stick to your liberal line. We will only indulge your ignorance for so long. The day you come for our weapons is the day we go from a debate to a war. You need to wake up

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Baloney

    consiracy theory bs
    Your in depth analysis, life time experience and rebuttal with evidence speaks volumes of your ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Why wouldn't normal people agree with this?

    Again, if you participate in the debate instead of stomping your feet and crying, then you can help craft legislation

    absolutists of any stripe will lose in the long term
    What are you trying to ban? A mechanical device?
    Would you be in favor of banning keyboards if some people wrote stuff you didn't like?

    The Constitution has nothing to do with what you support, like or think is reasonable.
    It isn't the Bill of Wants or the Bill of Needs, it is the Bill of Rights!
    And for damn good reasons that not every Common Core student will understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    According to ALL the dnc front runners, it starts with a buyback and registration. It does not end there. I am still amazed that with all our posted statistics and logic you namecall and stick to your liberal line. We will only indulge your ignorance for so long. The day you come for our weapons is the day we go from a debate to a war. You need to wake up
    OBAMA IS GOING TO TAKE YOUR GUNS LOOK OUT GUYS. OBAMA HAS NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND IS
    A SECRET MUSLIM AND HATES AMERICA AND WANTS TO TAKE ALL YOUR GUNS SO LOOK OUT. LIBERALS
    HATE AMERICA AND WANT OUR GUNS THEY WILL TAKE ALL THE GUNS WATCH OUT. BERNIE WANTS YOUR
    GUNS, AOC WANTS YOUR GUNS, HARRIS WANTS ALL THE GUNS THEY WILL PASS ALL THE LAWS THAT CONFISCATE
    YOUR GUUUUUUUUNS!!!!!!

    (runs around in circles shouting and getting spittle all over the inside of your monitor. Finally slams into wall
    and knocks self out. Blessed silence)

    Gun manufacturers: please keep this up guys. We need to make more money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mram10 View Post
    According to ALL the dnc front runners, it starts with a buyback and registration. It does not end there. I am still amazed that with all our posted statistics and logic you namecall and stick to your liberal line. We will only indulge your ignorance for so long. The day you come for our weapons is the day we go from a debate to a war. You need to wake up
    Ultimate Legislation was written with the Bill of Rights and the 27 Amendments. Modifications like prohibition, don't do so well as the originals.

    What part of "Shall NOT be infringed" passes you by?
    L

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    Your in depth analysis, life time experience and rebuttal with evidence speaks volumes of your ignorance.
    your ignorance speaks to your ignorance

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Baloney

    consiracy theory bs
    Agreed. The shooter was well rehearsed with his equipment; in the Army, the only time we use a machine gunís cyclic rate for longer than a few seconds is when implementing a Final Protective Fire; essentially the patrol base is being over run, so the crew served weapons point to a pre-planned direction and angle and hold the trigger down while the rest of the platoon sneaks out the back. Itís aiming at a knee-cap level, so itís not a technique for producing casualties as much as it slows the enemy down. Otherwise, efficient use of a machine gun is similar to that used by the shooter in Las Vegas; short controlled bursts.

    Also, just looked at a map of the area. The hole in the window was substantial, and he was aiming to his left; the shells, even if ejected slightly backward, would have mostly gone out the window on the right side.

    Lastly, he was using AR10 rifles. Those are .762... I think? I canít bloody remember, too lazy to google it. I can see how those would sound a lot like a 240B. Besides, while every soldier goes through a range where they shoot a 240 over your head, itís three stories up, and itís a one-time thing. Listening to guns being shot away from you Iíd gander would be a bit different than toward you. I wouldnít put much trust in someone saying it sounded like one or the other, Veteran or not.

    This comment is just an observation; my prayers are still out for the victims and families of the deceased, so please donít take my ramblings as insensitive.

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    What I don't understand is why the bump stock ? Modifying an AR-15 to full auto is no big deal for a machinist, it can't be that hard to get the parts, for people who are full-on wacked, why do they play with second-rate toys ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What I don't understand is why the bump stock ? Modifying an AR-15 to full auto is no big deal for a machinist, it can't be that hard to get the parts, for people who are full-on wacked, why do they play with second-rate toys ?
    Because modifying to make a weapon automatic is a federal offense. Googling bomb making materials is probably less likely to get a flag seen by the feds than asking about even how a full auto functions. Be careful what you say here as well. Some shops have FFLs regardless if they do firearms work. If someone sends you a message with seemingly harmless questions about trigger groups, it could be a probe. This isnít a conspiracy theory, itís the real deal, and the folks at the ATF donít joke around about it. I know a guy who worked with em, theyíre pretty good about answering questions. You wonít get a ďsemi-fully-auto-assault-rifle-ARĒ answer from them either.

    Regardless of what you believe, itís the law and itís here to stay until our legislators change it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderskunk View Post
    Because modifying to make a weapon automatic is a federal offense.
    And shooting 400 people is not ?


    I know it's illegal but so are drugs and that doesn't seem to stop anyone. I can't imagone that a mass murderer is too concerned about the legal aspects of any modifications to his weapons ...

    Besides that, let's face it, real assault weapons are not semi-auto and have not been since World War I. This stuff in the press about "assault weapons" is b period ess period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What I don't understand is why the bump stock ? Modifying an AR-15 to full auto is no big deal for a machinist, it can't be that hard to get the parts, for people who are full-on wacked, why do they play with second-rate toys ?
    You are absolutely right.
    However, I don't think a bump stock was involved.

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    Default Gun Grabbers, Thy Name is LIAR!

    "There have been 22 school shootings in the US so far this year"

    So say the talking heads of U.S. "news".

    I heard that claim on a local station last night so I thought I'd check it out as it grossly fails to coincide with the Mother Jones database of mass shootings. So what is a "school shooting"? Here's how CNN defines it.

    "The shooting must involve at least one person being shot (not including the shooter).

    The shooting must occur on school property, which includes but is not limited to, buildings, athletic fields, parking lots, stadiums and buses.

    We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met, except in instances where the sole shooter is law enforcement or a security officer.

    We included injuries sustained from BB guns, since the Consumer Product Safety Commission has identified them as potentially lethal."

    So if a gang banger shoots another person on a school parking lot at midnight it's a "school shooting".

    They also included accidental discharges and even "injuries sustained from BB guns".

    This is the same deceit used in lumping in suicides and criminals shooting criminals with the extremely rare mass shootings to inflate the numbers and make "gun violence" seem like the greatest threat to Americans' safety.

    Yup, more "proof" we gotta ban dem nasty lookin black rifles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    Why wouldn't normal people agree with this?

    Again, if you participate in the debate instead of stomping your feet and crying, then you can help craft legislation

    absolutists of any stripe will lose in the long term
    Once again, your position is that all we should be doing is to help you do the very thing we are fighting against.

    The people who want to limit guns the most are akin to people who have never manufactured in their life demanding that speeds and feeds be lowered because it's too scary for them, and when you ask them what a radial arm drill press is they answer, "It's the shoulder thing that goes up?"

    Would you accept someone telling you what endmills you are allowed to use from someone who was FULLY AND WILLFULLY ignorant about machining because they don't like it?

    Banning AR15's, but saying that a Ruger Mini 14 is OK is on line with saying that you can't use a COMG, but a CMNG is ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    If I want to buy a gun, I need to fill out a form, pay a fee, and submit it to the police station. Then I have to wait while they run a background check and process it. Then I get a permit to acquire. Then I take that to a gun store, buy the gun, then wait while the gun store runs another background check, and THEN I can take possession of the gun. Is that not enough? What more do you want?
    I want it more difficult for the average person who may or may not use the gun to kill innocent lives. If I want a drivers license it is way more difficult and time consuming to get a license to drive a car than what you just wrote on purchasing a gun. What kind of training is required when purchasing a gun and are there any written tests? Does one need proper training on how to use the gun after you purchase it? What about storage of the gun when it is not in use? Are they requirements for a gun safe or a safety lock?

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    Once again, this comes down to you wanting to punish 327 MILLION people for the actions of a statistically insignificant minority. This BS line of thinking is why Japanese Americans were rounded up and put into camps during WW2. Blaming and holding accountable people who have nothing to do with what has happened.

    But I guess as long as it saves just 1 life it's OK to round people up and put them into camps. If it saves just 1 life you can endure any tyranny.

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  29. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    I want it more difficult for the average person who may or may not use the gun to kill innocent lives. If I want a drivers license it is way more difficult and time consuming to get a license to drive a car than what you just wrote on purchasing a gun. What kind of training is required when purchasing a gun and are there any written tests? Does one need proper training on how to use the gun after you purchase it? What about storage of the gun when it is not in use? Are they requirements for a gun safe or a safety lock?
    Once again you illustrate the major fallacy behind gun control, which is that "the average person" is somehow a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off.

    That is an elitist/collectivist viewpoint that is alien to the very core of traditional philosophy upon which the country was founded.

    The founders trusted the people more than they did government and wrote a document, The Constitution of the United States of America, that specifically empowered the people while placing limits on government power. Today's collectivists want to reverse that to empower the government while placing all kinds of strict limits on the people. The fact that they have been so successful at it for over a century has only emboldened them to press for more. If they succeed, at the end of it we wind up looking more like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union than the constitutional republic they left us.

    As for your questions, I live in a state with ALL you have described. We have licensing with training requirements that include written tests. We have a storage law that requires all firearms not in use must be "secured against unauthorized use". The law currently allows for the use of trigger and cable locks as well as "locked containers" that can include the trunk of a car. There is a referendum question being put forward that would require all firearms to be locked in an "approved safe" including while being transported in a vehicle. That's right, they want gun owners to have to install a safe in their vehicle. Currently the only available devices that will accommodate a typical hunting rifle will only fit in a pickup truck and the only ones that will fit a sedan or SUV are special and very expensive (~$1,500) models designed for police vehicles and usually won't fit anything longer than 38-40 inches. Since they must be permanently mounted they severely hinder access to the cargo area.

    Meanwhile, our criminals easily acquire guns through illegal channels and armed robberies and shootings are fairly common events on the evening news.

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  31. #1340
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    This is a useful compilation of stats, for those who find interest in stats. ;-)
    Guns in the Netherlands — Firearms, gun law and gun control (all nations are available, I just copied this link in example)

    No telling how the stats were obtained...... credibility gap I suppose.


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