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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    9100: 'what can we do about....'

    Answer is : "everything they do here and in places like California will become national law if not vigorously opposed.....
    OBAMA IS GOING TO TAKE OUR GUNS AND KNIVES LOOK OUT ITS A TRAGEDY OH MY GOD THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE
    THEM AWAY LOOK OOOOUUUUUTTTT."

    OK then. Please carry on with the original discussion....
    Another well thought out post by our resident anti-white bigot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    The question is- what can we do as individuals or a group to bring the firearms world around to a more rational state?
    I thought I would go back to the first post (reproduced in full below) and original question before giving this answer, starting with another question.

    Are you SURE it's "the firearms world" and not the world around us that needs to be brought "around to a more rational state"?

    Absent the hysterical media coverage and one-sided narrative, I don't see us (the firearms owning community) as the source of the problem but merely the scapegoats of those who refuse to deal with the real problems that have become ingrained in our society through decades of listening to the same people who now demand yet more gun control.

    In the world I grew up in people freely talked to strangers, left their doors unlocked, and expected real consequences for misbehavior. Rape was something that mostly happened behind closed doors and murderers could expect decades behind bars if they escaped execution. And we had plenty of guns, usually stored unlocked with ammunition left in a closet or drawer.

    And then society changed, rapidly and in many ways not for the better. Drugs became rampant, both legal and otherwise. The concept of personal responsibility went out the window and "It's not my fault" became the excuse for all kinds of bad behavior. And there were plenty in positions of responsibility who supported the idea, especially psychiatric professionals and the politicians who listened to them.

    Once we locked up perverts and let children roam free. Today it's largely the reverse. Women can't even go for a daytime jog without the fear of being raped and we don't let children walk to the bus stop for fear of being snatched. An increasing segment of our society feels they have the right to murder those who offend them or stand in their way.

    You give Chicago as an example, with all the "gun violence". In many of those neighborhoods where this happens there once were intact families who kept their kids in line. Today once they hit puberty they are raised as much by the streets as by what usually is a single mom and an estranged father they hardly know. The gangs rule and if you ain't one of them you ain't nobody. They fight each other to the death over the very profitable drug trade and the dirty little secret of that trade is that most of the illegal drugs in this country come through those neighborhoods, including the "recreational drugs" of dem white folk in the suburbs.

    The modern mass murderer of the Columbine type is fortunately a very rare animal but if we don't address the root causes they are likely to increase in number. They are very much a creation of the very weird popular culture that we once laughed off as harmless. They feel put upon because their lives don't match the idealized image and years of violent entertainment have numbed them to the idea of murder. Add in drugs, both legal and otherwise along with a desire to "make a name" by committing a bigger atrocity than the last guy and you have a very dangerous mix.

    You can't stop the bad people by disarming the good and the fact that most of the mass shootings happen in Gun Free Zones ought to be seen as indisputable proof of that.

    No, I'm not prepared to "compromise" yet again and give up even more while accepting blame for something I had nothing to do with. And as for "taking away guns from dangerous people" if they are truly that F*****g dangerous they are too dangerous to be walking among us!

    I intend to fight the gun grabbers and use my voice (and my writing) to point out the lies we've been sold as "public safety" and how failure to properly enforce existing laws has been a major contributor to "gun violence" along with a culture that always blames others for evil acts.


    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    As everyone here knows, we are surrounded by people, often with the best of intentions, who can't wait to confiscate all our guns. Other than contributing to some organizations and writing our congressmen, individuals have not really been doing all that much. There is a lot of noise about keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people, but not much really accomplished.

    To introduce myself, which many of you have heard before but some haven't. I am coming up on 84 in a few days, got my first .22 rifle at 13 and have always had guns since. I keep and bear arms and have every intention of continuing to do so. I joined the NRA before a lot of you were born. As I write, there is a loaded 12 ga Browning O&U three steps away and I support concealed carry.

    The point of that monologue was to make it clear that I am not some sort of bleeding heart anti gun type and the things I may propose I believe are in the best interest of the sport, even if some of you don't like them.

    The question is- what can we do as individuals or a group to bring the firearms world around to a more rational state?

    Like Chicago, St. Louis often has multiple murders on a weekend. A sad commentary was when I said to a black friend that I was nervous about going in a certain part of town. He said "You don't have to worry, you're white." The reasons for that condition are complex and beyond the scope of our forum, but someone makes the guns and distributes them. The police are constantly picking up convicted felons carrying guns. How do they get them and what can we do about it?

    Lest this seem like a racist post (it isn't) there are literally hundreds of cases where guns bought legally are used in multiple murders. Do we need to change the purchase system? I don't like the idea of more stringent background checks, but as a card carrying member of the human race, I like these murders much less and if I need to give up some of my autonomy to stop them, then I would have to regard it as a reasonable trade.

    Off the soapbox and into the asbestos suit,

    Bill

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    A quickie reply, it is easy to idealize the good old days, but in many ways they were. From the age of 10, 1945, in the summer I would mow lawns during the week and ride to my father's office on Saturday to spend the week's profits. He was a dentist and had an office some miles west of the downtown area. I would usually walk the two blocks to a major street that had five movie theaters. If there was nothing showing I liked, I would get on a streetcar to the main business district. In easy walking distance there was Walter Ashe Radio, a ham radio store, a sporting goods store that had a lot of guns, several movie theaters, and all the junk food I never got at home. Talk about being happier than a clam at high tide! The ONLY restriction my father put on me was to tell me what time to be back. He never once asked where I was going. No one ever bothered me except one guy who tried to sell me a bicycle.

    It is my personal opinion that much of the problem in the ghettos is that when housing opened up a lot of people who could afford it moved, leaving the bottom fraction without a stabilizing force.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    It is my personal opinion that much of the problem in the ghettos is that when housing opened up a lot of people who could afford it moved, leaving the bottom fraction without a stabilizing force.

    Bill
    I'm not sure I understand your message. But would like to. Would you please explain further.
    My earliest years were in the public housing projects of Chicago, in the 1950's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    A quickie reply, it is easy to idealize the good old days, but in many ways they were. From the age of 10, 1945, in the summer I would mow lawns during the week and ride to my father's office on Saturday to spend the week's profits. He was a dentist and had an office some miles west of the downtown area. I would usually walk the two blocks to a major street that had five movie theaters. If there was nothing showing I liked, I would get on a streetcar to the main business district. In easy walking distance there was Walter Ashe Radio, a ham radio store, a sporting goods store that had a lot of guns, several movie theaters, and all the junk food I never got at home. Talk about being happier than a clam at high tide! The ONLY restriction my father put on me was to tell me what time to be back. He never once asked where I was going. No one ever bothered me except one guy who tried to sell me a bicycle.

    It is my personal opinion that much of the problem in the ghettos is that when housing opened up a lot of people who could afford it moved, leaving the bottom fraction without a stabilizing force.

    Bill
    The violence problem in the black communities took generations to create and can not be solved quickly IF it can be solved. One thing I am certain is that you can not stop black-on-black violence by disarming whites. What it will likely take is a "get tough" on armed criminals approach to buy time coupled with efforts to break the cycle of poverty, dependence, and violence. This might mean sacrificing some of the current crop of gang bangers to lengthy prison terms in order to save their younger brothers. It is a very unpleasant choice but so is the alternative of letting things continue where young men don't expect to live till the age of 25.

    Here in Boston top police officials are asking the legislature to increase penalties for illegal gun possession because the bad guys consider 2-1/2 years in prison as no big deal. I was actually a supporter of the Bartley-Fox Law back in 1975 because I thought the mandatory 1 year minimum penalty it imposed would deter bad guys from being armed. Man was I wrong! Now more than 40 years later shootings have increased dramatically and they want even stiffer penalties while judges and prosecutors keep playing "let's make a deal" with armed defendants.

    Worcester men charged in drug, gun raids - News - telegram.com - Worcester, MA

    22-year-old with recent history of gun and drug charges arrested for possession of dangerous weapon during stop in Hyannis East End… [HN VIDEO] – Hyannis News – News & Information for Hyannis Cape Cod

    2 Holyoke men arrested after gang task force raid yields heroin, cocaine, ammo, cash – Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

    Worcester men charged in drug, gun raids - News - telegram.com - Worcester, MA

    several of these guys are repeat offenders. Why are they back on the streets so soon?

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    It appears to go back to the sentiment expressed in post #3

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    A man standing by a road in the Colorado mountains was attacked by a grizzly bear. Two hunters jumped out of the woods on the other side and shot the bear. One hunter looked after the victim and the other started to skin the bear. After a few moments, he asked "Is the bait still usable or do we have to go back to Massachusetts for another one?"

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your message. But would like to. Would you please explain further.
    My earliest years were in the public housing projects of Chicago, in the 1950's.
    An example is the black friend I mentioned earlier. He left the area he lived in and moved to a semi rural one across the Mississippi in Illinois. When I asked why, he said that they were fed up with the drivebys. So a law abiding family (in fact his wife is a lawyer) that you would want to keep in a neighborhood moved out, leaving the gangs and drug dealers. Before about 1960 and the mid 60s civil rights legislation, they would have had to stay in the colored area and make the best of it.

    BTW, his son is named Kamale Moore. Remember it because you will be hearing it again. The kid blows a sweet horn, through a mouthpiece I made for him.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    It appears to go back to the sentiment expressed in post #3
    I completely agree, and have quoted that post below.

    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Popular culture that glorifies perverse actions with firearms without the positive social reinforcement of home, family, community and nation, WILL foster an unacceptable ratio of misfits.

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    I've found a way to counter the arguments of the liberal left.
    Just tell them that "gunshots" and "murder" are not "necessarily linked."

    University of California administrators tell staff that 'women' and 'female' aren't 'necessarily linked' - CUZZ BLUE

    Not everyone that goes crazy shoots someone, but it appears as though the goal is to drive everyone crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    efforts to break the cycle of poverty, dependence, and violence.
    Agree. So why, we have to ask, is our government running guns and drugs and making independence ever more difficult?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    I've found a way to counter the arguments of the liberal left.
    Just tell them that "gunshots" and "murder" are not "necessarily linked."

    University of California administrators tell staff that 'women' and 'female' aren't 'necessarily linked' - CUZZ BLUE

    Not everyone that goes crazy shoots someone, but it appears as though the goal is to drive everyone crazy.
    My favorite takeaway from that article:

    (This is, perhaps, why they call it "higher education."
    Because you have to be high in order to believe it.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Agree. So why, we have to ask, is our government running guns and drugs and making independence ever more difficult?
    I've forgotten who originally said it but years ago I remember someone saying "Beware the problem and solution created in the same lab".

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    Since the main focus of this thread seems to be mass shootings and gun control I thought I would point out the joker in the deck.

    When I first heard about the synagogue shooting in Germany I assumed the gunman had smuggled in a gun from another country to circumvent Germany's strict laws. They had video of the attack on the news this morning and ...

    The attacker appears to be using some kind of single shot black powder rifle or shotgun! It is very obvious that this is not using smokeless powder due to the huge cloud of white smoke.

    So, my question is this. If a mass shooter can accomplish an attack with a primitive single shot weapon, possibly homemade, what are the ultimate limits on gun control laws to "prevent" such an attack?

    Although the gun grabbers are now focusing on "assault weapons" (semi-autos) I think this one incident has just proved the fallacy of gun control. Although it is very difficult to determine exactly what weapon the gunman was using due to poor quality photos it certainly appears to be a crude weapon and the slowness of fire in the video strongly indicates that he has to reload after each shot and the cloud of smoke indicates black powder, possibly homemade.

    Using the logic of the gun grabbers that they must restrict weapons used in such incidents it doesn't take much imagination to see that eventually there would be no firearms left that could be owned by the average person.

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    As I have said before, I made my first gun when I was 13, a crude piece of ironmongery, but it was as capable of killing someone as the fanciest target gun. When you consider that almost by definition the ordinary machine shop has better equipment than anyone had in 1873 when the Colt SAA and Winchester 73 were introduced, almost any professional and many hobbyists could easily make replicas. The main defense here is that nearly all shop owners who have been able to keep one running for a few years are stable enough that they don't want to do mass shootings.

    In the end, that is the best defense. Meanwhile, if we accept that most mass shooters were on SSRI medicine, is anyone looking for a solution? Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors work because your metabolism constantly generates serotonin and other cells constantly break it down. By slowing the breakdown, the person has more active serotonin. Since serotonin is psychoactive, it stands to reason that some of the products of its breakdown can also be. Slowing the breakdown may produce a different set of products. The drug companies must have thought of that too, and done studies. Where are they? There must have been PHD candidates looking for a thesus who looked at the problem. Have any of them published? If not, can we encourage such a study? That would beat sitting around whining about the government.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    Another well thought out post by our resident anti-white bigot.
    Excuse me, it's "anti-idiot" bigot.

    Because the original poster here notwithstanding, the thread seems to be chock full of 'em.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Excuse me, it's "anti-idiot" bigot.

    Because the original poster here notwithstanding, the thread seems to be chock full of 'em.
    That's for sure - just look at this crazy rant.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Ox the only problem with this concept is that most of the folks with the firearms in question tend to also fly the swastika flag or run around in those funny white robes with hoods. One of the reasons it's less likely to happen in germany now is that anyone
    who flies that flag gets tossed in jail.

    This could work in the US as well, also for the white robe guys.

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    More idiocy from our friends in UK:

    Guy is arrested and jailed for having a potato peeler in public
    Gun Control Goes Too Far In UK: Man Arrested For Having A Potato Peeler

    Proposed ban on all pointed knives, includes kitchen knives
    Church of England: The UK MUST BAN "Pointy Knives"

    Excerpt from 1st link:

    "But this isn’t the first time the UK has decided that all types of human rights are illegal. You can’t even defend yourself or your property in the UK without facing criminal charges.

    The police were called to a residential street in the suburb of Hither Green in the south-east London in the early hours of this morning after the pensioner reportedly found two men inside his home. It was understood that the homeowner had been forced into his kitchen by a burglar armed with a screwdriver, where a struggle ensued. That struggle left one of the intruders bleeding from injuries to his upper body. The suspected burglar, who was 38-year-old, was rushed to hospital but later died. The 78-year-old homeowner was initially detained on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm but was later arrested on suspicion of murder.

    Not to mention self-defense is a basic human right. Those who understand self-preservation want the best and most effective tool at hand to save their life. and those in the UK are being denied that fundamental right by the very law the government promised would protect them."

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    The original article:

    Man in court for having potato peeler in public place | Dunfermline Press

    And the homeowner who dared to defend himself:

    Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested - BBC News

    A 78-year-old man, in his own home, defending against armed intruders (a screwdriver is a weapon, despite the claims of those who persecuted Bernhard Goetz in New York). The UK isn't the only place where those in official capacity often persecute those who use force against criminals.


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