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    I suspect the quality/quantity of weapons might be closer than some people think.

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    I have an idea.
    Instead of dividing our population to work against one another, why don't we start uniting.
    Let every government function begin with the Pledge of Allegiance to America.
    And every person with dual citizenship be deported.
    Require every illegal alien released from jail/prison to reside within 500 feet of a Judge.
    Require every government employee to pass the same background check as any citizen wanting to purchase a firearm.
    Stop giving foreign aid to other countries and use it on programs here at home.
    Repeal any tax law that divides families and favors single parents.
    Repeal any laws that require the hiring of one race over another.
    Repeal all hate laws.
    Stop teaching that there are 14 genders.
    Get government out of the drug business (google Afghanistan and Mena.)
    Put K-12 education back in the hands of the local communities.
    Make the phrase, "I'm offended." as punishable as, "I have a bomb."
    In short, stop catering to the stupid people and do what is right.

    113506-benjamin-ben-franklin-quotes.jpg

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    Default Report of Total Gun Control Fail: Less than 1% of 500,000 Bump Stocks Surrendered

    It looks like Americans have more common sense than the gun grabbers wish.

    According to this article and others I have read, after the Las Vegas inspired Bump Stock Ban was instituted less than 1% of the estimated half a million bump stocks were turned in. While that does not necessarily mean all are still in private hands as some may have been destroyed by owners, that still is a level of non-compliance that ought to be a preview of how "mandatory gun buybacks" will be received.

    Report of Total Gun Control Fail: Less than 1% of 500,000 Bump Stocks Surrendered

    I understand compliance with New Zealand's "assault weapon" ban is also pretty low. Looks like common sense is becoming more common.

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    "Never give an order you know will not be obeyed." Doing so undermines your authority.

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    This a story I read a long time ago, so if anyone has a correction to make, please do so. As I recall it, Norway had universal firearm registration before WWII. When the Nazis took over, they looked up the gun owners and collected the guns. During the war the Allies supplied guns to the resistance and they captured some, so by the end of the war they were pretty well armed. When they got their own government back, they tried to reinstate the previous registration. The people simply refused to comply. Reportedly even police who knew about guns would not report them. It doesn't take much insight to see why.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    This a story I read a long time ago, so if anyone has a correction to make, please do so. As I recall it, Norway had universal firearm registration before WWII. When the Nazis took over, they looked up the gun owners and collected the guns. During the war the Allies supplied guns to the resistance and they captured some, so by the end of the war they were pretty well armed. When they got their own government back, they tried to reinstate the previous registration. The people simply refused to comply. Reportedly even police who knew about guns would not report them. It doesn't take much insight to see why.

    Bill
    Unfortunately too many in the USA think "It can't happen here" and refuse to accept that ANY government can turn on you if you aren't careful.

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    It's all downhill from now on...

    Kansas Girl, 13, Charged With Felony for Making “Gun-Like Hand Gesture” Toward Classmates

    Kansas Girl, 13, Charged With Felony for Making "Gun-Like Hand Gesture" Toward Classmates

    red-flag-laws-1.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    I have an idea. Instead of dividing our population to work against one another, why don't we start uniting. . .
    . . .
    Repeal all hate laws.

    . . .
    OK, I'm confused on that one. To unite us and work together, we're going to encourage hate crimes?

    Hate Crime Law and Legal Definition. A hate crime is usually defined by state law as one that involves threats, harassment, or physical harm and is motivated by prejudice against someone's race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation or physical or mental disability.

    Hate Crime Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.





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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    OK, I'm confused on that one. To unite us and work together, we're going to encourage hate crimes?

    Hate Crime Law and Legal Definition. A hate crime is usually defined by state law as one that involves threats, harassment, or physical harm and is motivated by prejudice against someone's race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation or physical or mental disability.

    Hate Crime Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.



    You are a dishonest person.
    No one said, "encourage hate crimes."

    The crime is in the deed, not some perceived or imaginary motivation.
    The real problem is, like most other laws, they are selectively enforced.
    Hate crime laws are just a thin veil for thought crimes.
    I doubt that you are really that confused.

    Looks like someone has outed you.
    Investigation finds online smear campaigns can be bought for as little as $8 for a post | Daily Mail Online

    political-correctness-weapon-used-silence-people-who-26165236.jpg

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    Hmmm.. Take a quick look, I did not research the most recent, but this is a snapshot and it's not like the statics changed dramatically.

    Deaths from the CDC: FastStats - Accidents or Unintentional Injuries
    All unintentional injury deaths
    Number of deaths: 169,936
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 52.2
    Cause of death rank: 3

    Unintentional fall deaths
    Number of deaths: 36,338
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

    Motor vehicle traffic deaths
    Number of deaths: 40,231
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.4

    Unintentional poisoning deaths
    Number of deaths: 64,795
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 19.9

    FBI Statistics on deaths by firearm: FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 4
    2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
    Total 12,888 12,253 12,270 13,750 15,070

    Leading cause of death(2016): FastStats - Leading Causes of Death
    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173



    Guns are not the biggest issue we have, unless you talk to a liberal or the democratic party.

    If anything we should outlaw vehicles as they cause more death, injuries and property damage. We are talking in the billions annually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drom68 View Post
    Hmmm.. Take a quick look, I did not research the most recent, but this is a snapshot and it's not like the statics changed dramatically.

    Deaths from the CDC: FastStats - Accidents or Unintentional Injuries
    All unintentional injury deaths
    Number of deaths: 169,936
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 52.2
    Cause of death rank: 3

    Unintentional fall deaths
    Number of deaths: 36,338
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

    Motor vehicle traffic deaths
    Number of deaths: 40,231
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.4

    Unintentional poisoning deaths
    Number of deaths: 64,795
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 19.9

    FBI Statistics on deaths by firearm: FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 4
    2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
    Total 12,888 12,253 12,270 13,750 15,070

    Leading cause of death(2016): FastStats - Leading Causes of Death
    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173



    Guns are not the biggest issue we have, unless you talk to a liberal or the democratic party.

    If anything we should outlaw vehicles as they cause more death, injuries and property damage. We are talking in the billions annually.
    Automobiles are not a fair comparison because of their utilitarian value. If guns had the same everyday usefulness as cars, the firearm death rate would be considered outstanding.

    I suspect that we are looking in the wrong place. We should be reading children's books. This will get me flamed, but I think a large part of the problem is the increasing influence women have in their production. I don't remember what started the conversation, but one night in a gas station/convenience store I happened to say something to the effect that the European colonists who came here were not always the nice people depicted in the history books I had in school. The attendant, who looked to be high school age took off on a diatribe about how they killed all the Indians, stole their property and raped all their women. When I protested that they were also not all that bad, she said they had picture books about it. Picture books in high school????

    When I was growing up I never worried about who had guns in the neighborhood, but this exchange prompted me to list the families that I knew had them. I used the radius that I would often walk to another friend's house to define the area. Much to my surprise, I counted up 23. This was a transitional area from farms to upscale housing. One of my earliest memories was people tearing down a big red barn to the west of our lot and an executive with Granite City Steel building a house. He shot rabbits in his back yard with a 12ga shotgun. The house to our north was built by the owner of a dental supply company and he would let me shoot his .22. Farther back was an inventor type who introduced me to a lot of technology no one would normally show a little kid. He also let me dry fire his 1911. Nobody seemed worried about all that. It just wasn't a big deal.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by drom68 View Post
    Guns are not the biggest issue we have, unless you talk to a liberal or the democratic party.

    If anything we should outlaw vehicles as they cause more death, injuries and property damage. We are talking in the billions annually.
    I vote that in order to drive a car you must be a registered firearm(s) owner, that way we would only have responsible people driving

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    There is violence and there is violence, there is no gun violence. People are the cause of violence. No gun, vehicle, knife, club, bat, rock, poison, or anything else ever convinced a person to kill another.

    Get over the gun "issue" and deal with the people issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Automobiles are not a fair comparison because of their utilitarian value. If guns had the same everyday usefulness as cars, the firearm death rate would be considered outstanding.

    Bill
    Ok, I'll play the silly game.

    In 2015, 638,169 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2015 was 11.8 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 188 abortions per 1,000 live births.

    Abortion | Data and Statistics | Reproductive Health | CDC

    Where's your concern for the legalized death by a mother-to-be??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Learning View Post
    . . . The crime is in the deed, not some perceived or imaginary motivation.
    The real problem is, like most other laws, they are selectively enforced. Hate crime laws are just a thin veil for thought crimes.
    I doubt that you are really that confused.

    Looks like someone has outed you. . . .
    Our law surely recognizes perceived motivation as a factor. Fall asleep at the wheel, drive into a church, and kill a bunch of black kids -- you're charged with manslaughter. Plan to kill a bunch of black kids -- you're charged with 1st degree homicide. Intent and motivation are a major factor in how we judge a crime.

    Hate crime laws have been enacted as our society's way of saying that various racial, ethnic, religious etc. motivations to harm others (see definition earlier) are simply not OK. For example, Republicans sponsored the church arson prevention act. Seems too many black kids were getting killed, some approved, and Republicans wanted it to be known things like lynchings and killings weren't OK anymore.

    Naturally, law should be applied evenly to all citizens, and -- as you suggest -- it often isn't. Most cases, though, it's been the minority group getting screwed. Kind of a Catch 22, isn't it?

    Maybe someday we'll be at a point where we don't have to spell out it's not OK to, say, stalk and kill a person because they're black kid in a hoodie and you (the shooter) say you were afraid?

    Kurt, as far as your trolling reference goes, you've been here for three months, without (far as I know) a single reference to machining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drom68 View Post
    Where's your concern for the legalized death by a mother-to-be??
    It's the "to-be" part that is the problem here. Unless the foetus can survive on its own, it is not yet human. It's potentially a human, but that ain't the same thing. Otherwise, you'd be in prison every time you played with yourself.

    So is an ourang-outang, by the way, just takes a little longer to get to the same place

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Hate crime laws have been enacted as our society's way of saying that various racial, ethnic, religious etc. motivations to harm others (see definition earlier) are simply not OK.
    It's totalitarian bullshit, Pete. A crime is a crime. The motivation has nothing to do with it. We could use about 10,000 fewer laws, but enforce the ones that we really need instead of piling on when someone is arrested. Half that stuff that DA's pull is pure crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    . . . .It's totalitarian bullshit, Pete. A crime is a crime. The motivation has nothing to do with it. . . .
    While I'd agree we could do with fewer laws, the pursuit of civil rights didn't strike me as "totalitarian bullshit." Hate crime statutes, such as the early one cited above, gave leverage to keep blacks from being murdered, pretty much for being black.

    And a crime really does depend on motivation - hence such gradations as 1st degree and 2nd degree homicide and voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. Dead person in all four cases, but most people see the crime and punishment rightly differing based on intent. What sentence should the cop get, who (apparently) today just shot a black woman in her own home? Death penalty? Slap on the wrist?

    The "piling on" thing is another thing -- here there's at least some push to have those cases reviewed on appeal. According to this source, we could do better; but we also could do a whole lot worse:

    Global Scores & Rankings | World Justice Project

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    It's the "to-be" part that is the problem here. Unless the foetus can survive on its own, it is not yet human. It's potentially a human, but that ain't the same thing. Otherwise, you'd be in prison every time you played with yourself.
    That is part of the issue, there's always an "explanation" as to why it's not the same or can't be used in a discussion. If you think about it, a fetus is a life form, it is growing and developing to be self sustaining. A baby cannot survive on its own, so it's not a human? When is a baby or person considered a human? At age 5, 8 10, or 20? Some of the winners out there can't survive on their own ever, so are they not human (I am not talking disabled).

    EDIT: There is always some form of "justification" by liberals. Bottom line, a death is a death, by vehicle, by drug, by a beating or by a gun. The commonality is that a PERSON is behind each tool and caused the death. Either by accident or purposely. Guns are not the biggest issue when it comes to death, vehicle ranks number 3, guns are not in the top 10 causes of death. And when you look at deaths by guns, almost half are suicides by handgun.

    As for your comment on few law, makes total sense. There is no way to enforce all the laws on the books. More laws don't help, enforcing laws helps.

    Making new laws specific to guns are not the answer. Enforcing laws when a person commits a crime, any crime, and following through with the appropriate punishment are the answer. Plus raising your kid and teaching them how to cope with issues vs shoving drugs down them will help as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    OK, I'm confused on that one. To unite us and work together, we're going to encourage hate crimes?

    Hate Crime Law and Legal Definition. A hate crime is usually defined by state law as one that involves threats, harassment, or physical harm and is motivated by prejudice against someone's race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation or physical or mental disability.

    Hate Crime Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.




    What's wrong with hate crime laws? Sometime take a look at the statue of Lady Justice. She is holding a balance scale and is blindfolded. The blindfold is to insure that emotionalism doesn't factor into the balance. What hate crime laws seek to do is exactly that, put a thumb on the scale based on "victim" status.

    In real justice the only victim is a victim of the crime being tried, not a victim of "social injustice". By elevating various groups to special victim status it destroys the very principle of Equality Before The Law.

    Four young white guys beat up a black guy - HATE CRIME!
    Four young black guys beat up a white guy - ordinary crime

    A straight guy punches a gay guy - HATE CRIME!
    A gay guy punches a straight guy - ordinary crime (if it's viewed as a crime at all)

    Our society is filled with similar examples.

    One of the most blatant is the young man convicted for killing a young woman with his car in Charlottesville. He was sentenced to as much or even more time for "hate crimes" as for the criminal misuse of a motor vehicle and that's just plain wrong. The existing criminal code is fully capable of dealing with deliberately causing death or injury using a motor vehicle, as proven by the sentences he received for those offenses.

    We are long past the days of racial segregation and Jim Crow and it's time to restore balance to the law. We need not emulate the former Soviet Union where one form of Hate Speech was in some cases punishable by death.

    Why was there a death penalty for anti-semitism in the Soviet Union? - Quora

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