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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I'll leave this here. BTW, I live in this area...

    How Florida has confiscated thousands of guns using the '''red flag''' law
    “I should not have my right to bear arms taken from me in any circumstances,” he says.

    The judge tells Thomas that his motion is well-argued, but Ficarrotta, in the paperwork, spots one of those red flags.

    He asks: When you were arrested, weren’t you wearing a bulletproof vest?

    Yes, Thomas replies. In fact, I’m wearing it now.

    Request denied.
    So, attempting to protect yourself is a red flag now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Fellow candidate Kamala Harris said that if elected President she would bypass the legislature and institute her gun control plans by Executive Order. She also said 'that the free exercise of religion is a right created by manmade statutes -- not God -- and is a "personal" thing that should be kept in an "inner sanctum."' These are very dangerous people.
    I don't doubt that either of them are scumbags, but like Obama, they'll just sell more guns with constant scare tactics and the whole EO confiscation would never come to fruition because even DC rats know it's not the time yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I'll leave this here. BTW, I live in this area...

    How Florida has confiscated thousands of guns using the '''red flag''' law

    2600 in a year is a lot, some were really busy. Let's consider how many mass murders really do happen? The remainder are stupid but still nothingburger people who got their guns confiscated, i.e. most of them.

    this obviously doesn't address the root causes like media pushing crazies to it, like crazies roaming the streets.

    what this will result in, real dangerous crazies will find out how Boston bomber didn't use guns or gunpowder and will go buy a pressure cooker.

  3. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by _boris_ View Post
    this obviously doesn't address the root causes like media pushing crazies to it, like crazies roaming the streets.
    Thank you for bringing up root cause.

    5 whys: The Ultimate Root Cause Analysis Tool

    Q. Why did someone go on a shooting spree? A. He had the means, motive, and opportunity.
    Q. Why did he have the motive? A. He hated humanity and felt he had nothing to live for.
    Q. Why did he feel that way? A. Because of how he was treated for the last 20 years.
    Q. Why was he treated that way, and unable to deal with it?
    ...

    It takes some drilling to get down to the root cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    If your very familiar with firearms safety classes, could you explain to me how they are a lawsuit waiting to happen? Specifically you referenced a child or teacher getting shot on accident?

    My first hunter/firearms safety course was in 3rd grade, all 20 or so kids in my individual class went to the gym and watched a presentation, given by a state wildlife officer. Every class in the school took the class, which was a week long and less than an hour per day. We learned different kinds of guns, how to safely handle them, how they worked. We learned different wildlife in the state, we learned basic hunting rules and safety.

    The next year we did it all over again.

    That was my first experience, and I cannot fathom how anyone possibly could have gotten shot? There were no firearms in the room, no live ammunition, how could a child or teacher possibly be harmed?

    I am curious to hear your experience as it sounds like you are much more familiar with these types of safety classes than I am. I can count all that I have taken on one hand, so I can’t really say I am very familiar. None used guns or live ammunition, so it seemed to me like an excellent training opportunity.

    Oh. . . Those classes were at a public school by the way.
    If you are just showing videos then I seen no problem, it you are teaching kids how to load, unload, shoot a gun through school I can see a problem. I think this should be done by the parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Thank you for bringing up root cause.

    5 whys: The Ultimate Root Cause Analysis Tool

    Q. Why did someone go on a shooting spree? A. He had the means, motive, and opportunity.
    Q. Why did he have the motive? A. He hated humanity and felt he had nothing to live for.
    Q. Why did he feel that way? A. Because of how he was treated for the last 20 years.
    Q. Why was he treated that way, and unable to deal with it?
    ...

    It takes some drilling to get down to the root cause.
    I don't think that any of those root causes fit mass shooters well (i.e. like a small round peg fits a bigger square whole) Using this technique all man a potential rapists.

    The article clearly gives you one example of a crazy guy chanting about NZ shooter thanks to the mass media turning from journalism to sensational add selling vehicles.

    There are quiet a few suicides, some are very public in downtown big cities, but they are not covered by the press or other media. Look why historically that was the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Actually in some areas it should be mandatory. Far too many inner city kids have been shot when either they or a playmate found an older brother's gun. The guns are illegal so therefore they are hidden away rather than locked in a safe. Massachusetts has some of the strictest gun control in the nation yet estimates of (illegal) gun ownership in some Boston neighborhoods are as high as 70%. They are not all owned by gang-bangers. Many ordinary folk own them for protection against violent thugs who have been known to break in and terrorize residents while robbing them.

    Where are all of these illegal guns coming from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Where are all of these illegal guns coming from?
    New York Law Enforcement Officer Accused of Selling Guns to Criminals - Patrol - POLICE Magazine

    Some are sold by cops, some are stolen from cops, some are sold by private citizens, some are stolen from private citizens, some are made by the criminal, some are made for sale to criminals. Some are even stolen from the military.

    Some are intentionally sold to criminals by the CIA and ATF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Where are all of these illegal guns coming from?
    just steal a cop car parked at the doughnut shop,
    around here that would get you an ar15 a shotgun and maybe a few other goodies.

    a good fake ID will get you just about anything in some states

    remember criminals can be very creative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    If you are just showing videos then I seen no problem, it you are teaching kids how to load, unload, shoot a gun through school I can see a problem. I think this should be done by the parents.
    I have never heard of a firearms safety class teaching loading, unloading, or shooting. There is no handling of firearms and ammunition. But, like I said, I can count the number I have taken on one hand. I had to chuckle when I read your post. I am not that old... but the safety course I took in 3rd grade was with a slide projector...

    We completely agree, parents should be teaching their children safe firearms handling, and at minimum basic shooting skills. Since my kids were old enough to crawl they were taught gun safety. It starts very basic and increases in complexity and responsibility from there. What I see most in parents today, is the apathy towards inappropriate behavior.

    I was at a picnic recently and watched a second grader cramming leaves into another kids dinner. The mom just sat and watched. The same boy later knocked down a leaf pile two little girls had built (kindergarten or younger) and when they protested he crammed leaves in their faces and shoved them down. The mom just sat and watched.

    One of my most cherished memories of my little girl will always be listening to her play with her dolls. Unbeknownst to her I listened to her lecturing one of her dolls, "...your behavior is unacceptable... I do not appreciate you acting this way... " It took all I had not to burst out laughing. She has received that lecture many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    just steal a cop car parked at the doughnut shop,
    around here that would get you an ar15 a shotgun and maybe a few other goodies.

    a good fake ID will get you just about anything in some states

    remember criminals can be very creative.
    I particularly like it when I see a cruiser parked illegally, randomly, keys in the ignition, car running, door open.... no officer anywhere.

    A few months ago I had lunch downtown, walked to the diner there was a cruiser parked half in the intersection, half up on the curb, door open, keys in the ignition, car running. His AR was in the rack beside the computer. No flashing lights, no sirens. I went into the diner, ordered a sandwich and sat where I could see the cruiser. I waited on, ate my sandwich, had another cup of coffee, and left, the cruiser was still there. As I was getting into my truck down the street, the officer calmly exited one of the buildings, got into his car, and drove away. His cruiser had been sitting there well over 20 minutes, running, door open, while the officer was 3-4 buildings down the street. He would not have had a visual on his cruiser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I particularly like it when I see a cruiser parked illegally, randomly, keys in the ignition, car running, door open.... no officer anywhere.

    A few months ago I had lunch downtown, walked to the diner there was a cruiser parked half in the intersection, half up on the curb, door open, keys in the ignition, car running. His AR was in the rack beside the computer. No flashing lights, no sirens. I went into the diner, ordered a sandwich and sat where I could see the cruiser. I waited on, ate my sandwich, had another cup of coffee, and left, the cruiser was still there. As I was getting into my truck down the street, the officer calmly exited one of the buildings, got into his car, and drove away. His cruiser had been sitting there well over 20 minutes, running, door open, while the officer was 3-4 buildings down the street. He would not have had a visual on his cruiser.
    Could this have been a bait car?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Could this have been a bait car?
    Unlikely, that's SOP cop parking.

    Oh, and when they do use their lights, it's because they need to get to Dairy Queen before it closes. Seen it with my own eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Unlikely, that's SOP cop parking.

    Oh, and when they do use their lights, it's because they need to get to Dairy Queen before it closes. Seen it with my own eyes.
    Years ago, when I was a volunteer fireman, a couple of our guys ran the ambulance lights and siren to deliver pizza to our hose test. Cops saw them and thought they'd missed an assist. We all laughed, but they got suspended for a few weeks.

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    I can show you the tread marks and impact marks where the officers hit the parking lot exit at such velocity that they go airborne then they lay rubber and bottom out on impact.

    They hold the accelerator to the floor and make a brisk left at high speed, no brakes necessary, into the grocery store parking lot.

    I could video it happening once a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Qt[As it is, they are just giant frauds exploiting a so-called 'loophole'.]
    Correction some: of them..IMHO
    Dexter Avenue Baptist Church is probably an exception

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawnrs View Post
    Where are all of these illegal guns coming from?
    Various sources. Many of the guns seized by Boston police are alder guns, some as old as 100 years. It is not uncommon for them to find older revolvers chambered in the long obsolete S&W 38. Most of the older guns are owned by ordinary residents, and are passed on without papers when someone else acquires them.

    The gang members on the other hand tend to possess modern high capacity semi-auto pistols which come from a variety of sources including theft, straw purchasers, and professional gun traffickers. All of these sources are in violation of numerous state and federal laws yet those in power routinely drop or downgrade charges and give lighter than possible sentences to repeat offenders. In many cases firearms offenses that could easily bring ten years or more under Massachusetts law end up with a year or two or even less, sometimes promotion. Meanwhile the politicians keep whining about the problem being the looser laws of other states and demand even more restrictions on law-abiding gun owners and harsher penalties, ignoring the failure to properly enforce existing laws and penalties.

    Massachusetts has the highest rate of gun violence in the Northeast, as proven by FBI statistics year after year.

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    [QUOTE=Scottl;3432005] It is not uncommon for them to find older revolvers chambered in the long obsolete S&W 38.

    There's still plenty of antique lemon squeezers out there that can be shipped to your house for a few hundred bucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    New York Law Enforcement Officer Accused of Selling Guns to Criminals - Patrol - POLICE Magazine

    Some are sold by cops, some are stolen from cops, some are sold by private citizens, some are stolen from private citizens, some are made by the criminal, some are made for sale to criminals. Some are even stolen from the military.

    Some are intentionally sold to criminals by the CIA and ATF.
    By what you listed this seems like a gun issue to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fal Grunt View Post
    I have never heard of a firearms safety class teaching loading, unloading, or shooting. There is no handling of firearms and ammunition. But, like I said, I can count the number I have taken on one hand. I had to chuckle when I read your post. I am not that old... but the safety course I took in 3rd grade was with a slide projector...

    We completely agree, parents should be teaching their children safe firearms handling, and at minimum basic shooting skills. Since my kids were old enough to crawl they were taught gun safety. It starts very basic and increases in complexity and responsibility from there. What I see most in parents today, is the apathy towards inappropriate behavior.

    I was at a picnic recently and watched a second grader cramming leaves into another kids dinner. The mom just sat and watched. The same boy later knocked down a leaf pile two little girls had built (kindergarten or younger) and when they protested he crammed leaves in their faces and shoved them down. The mom just sat and watched.

    One of my most cherished memories of my little girl will always be listening to her play with her dolls. Unbeknownst to her I listened to her lecturing one of her dolls, "...your behavior is unacceptable... I do not appreciate you acting this way... " It took all I had not to burst out laughing. She has received that lecture many times.
    Well I am an older guy that has never owned a gun or found a need to have one for protection. There could be a time I wish I had a gun but I have been real lucky so far. My opinion is that I think should not teach gun safety, I think outside of the schools is where this should be taught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Various sources. Many of the guns seized by Boston police are alder guns, some as old as 100 years. It is not uncommon for them to find older revolvers chambered in the long obsolete S&W 38. Most of the older guns are owned by ordinary residents, and are passed on without papers when someone else acquires them.

    The gang members on the other hand tend to possess modern high capacity semi-auto pistols which come from a variety of sources including theft, straw purchasers, and professional gun traffickers. All of these sources are in violation of numerous state and federal laws yet those in power routinely drop or downgrade charges and give lighter than possible sentences to repeat offenders. In many cases firearms offenses that could easily bring ten years or more under Massachusetts law end up with a year or two or even less, sometimes promotion. Meanwhile the politicians keep whining about the problem being the looser laws of other states and demand even more restrictions on law-abiding gun owners and harsher penalties, ignoring the failure to properly enforce existing laws and penalties.

    Massachusetts has the highest rate of gun violence in the Northeast, as proven by FBI statistics year after year.

    Are the guns passed down from relative illegal? I recall my wife buying a gun for her father during a family auction a few years ago and I don't think he had to register it. It was an old British hunting rifle that my wife's uncle.


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