What kind and size of lathe should I look for to do rifle barrel work. I have looked at tool maker lathes as well as engine lathes. But I don't know enough about them to make an informed purchase. Can you tell me what to look for? Most rifle barrels are 26" or less. Is it better to find an old american build lathe? or Grizzly? We have build some Kalashnikovs and used emory cloth to get the barrels to fit the components as well as adjustable reamers for the components but I think it is time to get lathe. My son is a machinist but he is working on cnc lathes and mills making parts for Uncle Sam. He does have manual milling experience. He will be the one teaching me. What say you?
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what lathe?
- Thread starter arust
- Start date
- Replies 21
- Views 6,521
GGaskill
Titanium
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2001
- Location
- Central AZ
How much do you want to spend? That will be the primary driver of what you can get.
It will usually be used to turn down a spot on the barrel or rechamber a barrel. I want to spend $2000 or less... Grizzly has some lathes that look good to me for around the $2000 mark. There is a nice southbend locally for less... but not much in the way of tooling and I am not sure, as tooling can be super expensive for the older lathes let alone replacement parts. But it looks like its a new 1940s machine.
Spruewell
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2015
- Location
- Northern California
The cost of the tooling is more dependent on the type and quality of the work you are trying to do than the age of the machine you are running it in. A 1940 southbend can run the same turning tool as the new grizzly. You just have to be sure you aren’t getting a machine that is worn out so bad it can’t hold the tolerances you want
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
General rule: expect to spend about as much on tooling, as on the machine itself.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Condition is king and accessories, likely you will need a 4-jaw chuck and when I was doing barrel work a taper attachment and a steady proved useful.
Many guys are using a spider at the back of the head stock so the through hole becomes important. Parts can be important so a very rare lathe might not have parts to be found.
Guess I would figure on $2,000 or better and I would take most good condition name brand lathes over a G machine.
My gunsmith uses an old Logan about 1236.
12-36 is a good size
metric threading may be useful...
This may be a good/great deal for a want to be gunsmith (I don't see a steady but they can be had)
SouthBend Heavy10 AND US Machine Tool Vertical Mill #2 - tools - by...
QT:[Grizzly has some lathes that look good to me for around the $2000 mark.]
I it will take about 6 months to out grow that machine IMHO.
Guess you might go on YouTube and see what lathe and gear the guys are using.
Many guys are using a spider at the back of the head stock so the through hole becomes important. Parts can be important so a very rare lathe might not have parts to be found.
Guess I would figure on $2,000 or better and I would take most good condition name brand lathes over a G machine.
My gunsmith uses an old Logan about 1236.
12-36 is a good size
metric threading may be useful...
This may be a good/great deal for a want to be gunsmith (I don't see a steady but they can be had)
SouthBend Heavy10 AND US Machine Tool Vertical Mill #2 - tools - by...
QT:[Grizzly has some lathes that look good to me for around the $2000 mark.]
I it will take about 6 months to out grow that machine IMHO.
Guess you might go on YouTube and see what lathe and gear the guys are using.
Illinoyance
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
The primary attributes of a "gunsmith lathe" are a short headstock and a spindle bore large enough to pass a barrel plus a spider on the left end of the spindle. Most are imports of dubious quality. Any lathe in decent condition can be used for barrel work if you are willing to support the barrel between a chuck and a steady rest.
michiganbuck
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Location
- Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Gun work and most any kind of lathe work might have a varied number of methods.
One might want to run the muzzle through the spindle to a spider so might need a 1 3/8 spindle bore to go through because of the height of the front sight. Another gun project one might want to 4 jaw the muzzle and hole the breech are in a steady so needing perhaps 7-8” because of the width of the chuck.
All kinds of different needs so a lathe may need be at least a certain size. That is why I suggested a 1236 or so. Agree some 8 or 9” lathes may have needed features but good to know up front what features you might need, as best you can.
One might want to run the muzzle through the spindle to a spider so might need a 1 3/8 spindle bore to go through because of the height of the front sight. Another gun project one might want to 4 jaw the muzzle and hole the breech are in a steady so needing perhaps 7-8” because of the width of the chuck.
All kinds of different needs so a lathe may need be at least a certain size. That is why I suggested a 1236 or so. Agree some 8 or 9” lathes may have needed features but good to know up front what features you might need, as best you can.
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9100
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Location
- Webster Groves, MO
NRDock
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2015
- Location
- Central Pennsylvania
If you have the space, a larger old American lathe can be had at a lower price than the "right size" lathe. I'm doing barrels on a 16 x 54 American Pacemaker, between centers of course, because the headstock is almost 4' to the front of the chuck jaws.
$1200 lathe + $675 transport + $700 VFD to make 3 PH power, and then I started buying tooling. Haven't kept a tally, but I'd be surprised if I haven't spent another grand. And then you need a mill. You do this because you love machining, because you will never save any money doing your own gunsmithing.
I'm spoiled by the mass, but if I had to start over, I'd buy nothing smaller than 14 X 40. I like working between centers. Grizzly if money really mattered, South Bend if it didn't. There are other options of course, but these are the easy choices. There are plenty of Grizzly horror stories, but I suspect they are gradually getting better. No reason to believe they are as good as the Taiwanese South Bends in the same catalog: )
$1200 lathe + $675 transport + $700 VFD to make 3 PH power, and then I started buying tooling. Haven't kept a tally, but I'd be surprised if I haven't spent another grand. And then you need a mill. You do this because you love machining, because you will never save any money doing your own gunsmithing.
I'm spoiled by the mass, but if I had to start over, I'd buy nothing smaller than 14 X 40. I like working between centers. Grizzly if money really mattered, South Bend if it didn't. There are other options of course, but these are the easy choices. There are plenty of Grizzly horror stories, but I suspect they are gradually getting better. No reason to believe they are as good as the Taiwanese South Bends in the same catalog: )
I have been operating engine lathes for most of my career, closing in on 40 years now. I have run lots of older American lathes, and most of the more recent imports in all sizes. Most places I have worked I have been allowed to work on guns on my own time. When I buy a lathe of my own for gunsmith work,it will be the Taiwanese 14 x 40 with the 3 1/8" spindle bore. Several marketers sold the same basic machine last time I shopped them for around $16000 brand new, now around $20,000, but there is no searching auctions for accessories in assorted condition, that may or may not fit. The Taiwanese lathes are pretty good overall, the ways are a mite soft, but if you will be a bit fanatical about your clean up and maintenance you will have little to no trouble with them. The motors are not great, but will run well for quite some time, and then can be switched out fairly easily for a much better quality motor. The basics are there. The Chinese lathes I would avoid; you get what you pay for. If you buy a 13 x 36" you will wish for a 14 x 40" later, and if you buy a 2" or less spindle bore you will wish for a larger one later.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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MeanMachine1980
Aluminum
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2017
Take a look at precision Matthews. Probably the best import lathe packages available. I bought and restored an old southbend 13. Probably have $3000 in the lathe, vfd, speed control system, total rebuild. It all just matters what you want. My 13" lathe has a head stock that is just on the long side for chambering rifle barrels through the spindle. I had to make a custom head and outboard spider to make a 25" barrel fit. For shorter barrels Ill have to use a chambering fixture or chamber/thread with a steady rest. If you want a southbend to do primarily chambering/threading get a Heavy 10. I think they have a large enough through bore and a short spindle. Im glad I have the 13 because of the significant size increase over the 10. almost double the size!!
Take a look on youtube about southbend 13 restorations to get a close look at what these are and what they are capable of.
Take a look on youtube about southbend 13 restorations to get a close look at what these are and what they are capable of.
1yesca
Stainless
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2004
back in the day a lot of the smith's used the Logan the model 1957 used v belt drive short head stock so with a spider you could grab the barrel at each end Sheldon south bend heavy 10 there's a lot of good ol lathe out there that will get the job done just got to find one that's not all used up
Butch Lambert
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
- Location
- Poetry Texas USA
Guys, I'll differ with some of you. I do have a 6913 Clausing and a Monarch 10EE. Having said that a beginning gunsmith buddy bought a Heavy 10 and it was OK. He found a Grizzly 4003G used very little for a grand with an Aloris tool post. I have read all the supposed bad things on the Grizzly, the 4 that I've personally know of they have been great for the smiths. Some people forget or heard things that are important for chambering. If your spindle is tight without runout, that is all you need for chambering. Worn out ways have "nothing" to do with a great chambering job.
gappmast
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 13, 2007
- Location
- California
Butch is right. I have a Birmingham that I'm sure that came out the same factory door as a Grizzly 4003. It does very good work as long as the guy turning the cranks does his part. I do have to admit that I have lathe lust on that Monarch 10EE.
porthos
Aluminum
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2013
- Location
- western pennsylvania
Precision Mathews (made in Tiawan) +++!!
This is something I'm researching right now too. I've been wanting to set up a gunsmithing shop pretty much my entire adult life. I'm just now coming into a time where that can be realized.
I am not extremely knowledgeable about machining but I have done it at work. Ran our old South Bend lathes and our two Bridgeports, etc. I'm doing the excavation for the building now. 24x30 steel building on a concrete pad and a very nice electrical distribution layout fortunately I can do myself.
I have been seriously considering the Precision Mathews as I've heard good reviews. This particular model:
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1440bv/
I'll be running a DRO with it and I have been collecting cutting tools, reamers, action mandrels and blocks, etc. A lot of the fixtures and blocks myself at work.
I haven't fully settled on the Precision Mathews yet. I'm still considering an older South Bend or comparable lathe I can find parts for easily. I'm not sure if the Precision Mathews offers any support on replacement parts. If I can find an older lathe in good condition I'll likely go that route. Though the new lathe does have the appeal of being a new machine with tighter tolerances.
I am not extremely knowledgeable about machining but I have done it at work. Ran our old South Bend lathes and our two Bridgeports, etc. I'm doing the excavation for the building now. 24x30 steel building on a concrete pad and a very nice electrical distribution layout fortunately I can do myself.
I have been seriously considering the Precision Mathews as I've heard good reviews. This particular model:
https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-1440bv/
I'll be running a DRO with it and I have been collecting cutting tools, reamers, action mandrels and blocks, etc. A lot of the fixtures and blocks myself at work.
I haven't fully settled on the Precision Mathews yet. I'm still considering an older South Bend or comparable lathe I can find parts for easily. I'm not sure if the Precision Mathews offers any support on replacement parts. If I can find an older lathe in good condition I'll likely go that route. Though the new lathe does have the appeal of being a new machine with tighter tolerances.
Butch Lambert
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
- Location
- Poetry Texas USA
The PM would make you a great lathe. After playing with different Heavy 10s in the past it won't carry the PM's lunch box. Where in "Take me home West Virginia" are you located.
MeanMachine1980
Aluminum
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2017
Yes That would be a great choice! If you are concerned with parts availbility send PM an email and the owner will probably be the one answering your questions.
Here is a good related review on the PM 1440;
YouTube
Going the old machine route would be fun to restore and get a solid machine with some history. But it would take a lot of time when you could just be done with it.
My old soudhbend 13 only goes about 1000 rpm but I have variable speed, jog forward and reverse switch right at a custom control that I built. The Precision matthews is gear driven and will almost go 2000 rpm if I remember correctly.
I love my resto-mod southbend because it is large, heavy, QUIET.. but I wish I had the short headstock and speed. Both great options.
Here is a good related review on the PM 1440;
YouTube
Going the old machine route would be fun to restore and get a solid machine with some history. But it would take a lot of time when you could just be done with it.
My old soudhbend 13 only goes about 1000 rpm but I have variable speed, jog forward and reverse switch right at a custom control that I built. The Precision matthews is gear driven and will almost go 2000 rpm if I remember correctly.
I love my resto-mod southbend because it is large, heavy, QUIET.. but I wish I had the short headstock and speed. Both great options.
