You ever got the feeling you've been baited by atf? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    I don't do gun work at all, period.
    I have had people ask me do do stuff and I just tell them that there are a lot of rules and regulations that I'm not set up for.
    Sometimes they will come back knocking on the door two, three or more times and you want to scream "What part of NO do you not understand?"

    If I had a nickle for every machinist in training who has come to me and said "We should make guns".......
    Seems that once you teach them that you can make anything out of a metal block this becomes a lure for the younger crowd.

    As far as baiting one should never underestimate what someone climbing the ladder or trying to impress the boss will do.
    Not just a government thing, applies in spades to the business world as a whole.
    Bob
    A close friend who is an experienced CNC machinist was approached by a fellow who wanted to use his machinery to build some AR parts. My friend asked my opinion. I told him not to even let the guy near the shop. I believed that there was too much risk even if the fellow wasn't an ATF shill.
    He took my advice and ignored the request. There's no way to determine a person's motivation and in any case, it's not wise to have someone else operating your machinery.

  2. #82
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    About 35 years ago an ATF agent, while in my office on an unrelated matter, pulled out of his pocket a sketch of a "chain saw muffler" he'd invented and asked if I could make it. Other than the thread, the only decimal dimension was .223 thru the middle. I asked him whether he believed machinists were fucking stupid.

    I can only hope he's retired—or weeded out—by now and not running the agency.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    About 35 years ago an ATF agent, while in my office on an unrelated matter, pulled out of his pocket a sketch of a "chain saw muffler" he'd invented and asked if I could make it. Other than the thread, the only decimal dimension was .223 thru the middle. I asked him whether he believed machinists were fucking stupid.

    I can only hope he's retired—or weeded out—by now and not running the agency.
    Someone like that has probably semi-retired as a training specialist.

  5. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Spare me the outrage. I wasn't there, neither were you, all I can go by is what's stated and try to interpret it.

    What I do know is that far (FAR) to many people look at guns in this country as the Universal Tool. For them, the gun is the answer to all issues, all problems, all relationships, ad nauseum. When you have that mindset, is it any surprise blood is spilled?

    Look, here's my dirty little secret: I think guns are pretty cool, when they're artful pieces of engineering and design. I like boomy things as much as the next guy, and fast cars, planes, etc.

    But guns have this little problem - they tend to kill people. And that's something I don't care for. Whether it's the father killing his son because he didn't expect him home at a certain time of night, or the toddler shooting his mom because mom left her purse with its cute little gun where Junior could reach it.

    So there's a lot of stupid out there with guns, and sure as hell it shows up with both civilian and lawmen when get shooty. But it's gotten to the point where the last time I was pulled over I was actually scared, not because I though the cop would shoot me, but because I didn't know if HE thought I would shoot HIM.

    That there is a clue that we've done fucked up, and need to look at what the hell we're doing when everyone is running scared. That's not what the Forefathers intended with the Bill of Rights.

    Is it?
    Did you move to NH from MA? I was lucky to escape now defunct USSR and I am tired these days to explain to natural born Americans what "freedom" is.

    To the OP, impossible to know.

    There is a difference between wrong and legal, and very often they are not the same. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

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  7. #85
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    "But guns have this little problem - they tend to kill people."

    No they don't. Someone has to point the gun and pull the trigger.

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  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newman109 View Post
    "But guns have this little problem - they tend to kill people."

    No they don't. Someone has to point the gun and pull the trigger.
    The fault is not with the gun, but with the person however having a loaded gun can empower a person to do things he would otherwise not consider.

    Otherwise we'd all be allowed to keep stuff like Sarin gas, after all it's not the gas that kills people, it's the person who releases it.

  10. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by _boris_ View Post
    Did you move to NH from MA? I was lucky to escape now defunct USSR and I am tired these days to explain to natural born Americans what "freedom" is.

    To the OP, impossible to know.

    There is a difference between wrong and legal, and very often they are not the same. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
    Not sure where's you're coming from. I can say that your last sentence is true, with a caveat - a lot of bad people think they're "good", including the two most recent mass shooters. They thought what they did was "right and good" in their twisted minds.

    Ditto the chucklehead who body slammed a 13yo kid who wouldn't remove his hat during the national anthem - he though he had authorization to practically kill the child because the kid wasn't being "patriotic".

  11. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Not sure where's you're coming from. I can say that your last sentence is true, with a caveat - a lot of bad people think they're "good", including the two most recent mass shooters. They thought what they did was "right and good" in their twisted minds.

    Ditto the chucklehead who body slammed a 13yo kid who wouldn't remove his hat during the national anthem - he though he had authorization to practically kill the child because the kid wasn't being "patriotic".

    I am coming from a tyrannical regime called soviet "paradise" where private firearms ownership was outlawed as were all gun components, ammo and even knowledge in forms of books etc. This did not result in the end of domestic violence, suicides, crime or even cops shooting civilians. As a matter of fact the black market of guns and explosives always existed. We still had shootings, mass murder, bombings, armed robberies ... but we would not be allowed to know about them because freedom of press (1a) disappears shortly after 2a. Ask me how I know, my family lived through several occupations. It's eerie how history repeats exactly the same way.

    For those not in the North East, NH is touted as the "free state" compared to the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. Anyone who fear guns and other inanimate objects is free to take the ride down over the border. At least my NH friends are constantly ranting about liberal "massholes" running away from high taxes in MA and into NH, and immediately trying to start building exactly the same utopia there.

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  13. #89
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    Well, nice to meet you. As far as your "paradise", I agree it isn't, not due to ideology but due to common old dictatorship under whatever guise it tries to sell itself as. Russia has a lot of problems, flooding it with guns will not solve them (unless you consider universal quiescence a "solution").

    As to freedom, I don't consider freedom the right to shoot whatever you want, when you want. That's just another form of mental illness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter. View Post
    The fault is not with the gun, but with the person however having a loaded gun can empower a person to do things he would otherwise not consider.

    Otherwise we'd all be allowed to keep stuff like Sarin gas, after all it's not the gas that kills people, it's the person who releases it.
    oh dear, quotes like these "we'd all be allowed to" reads like a mental case or a slave. Not sure which one is worse, probably better be a crazy person.

    I don't believe that Japanese laws allowed anyone to keep poisonous gas, like the one used in the subway attack there ... how could this happen? We got laws against murder too, how can they keep happening? What is the answer, make even more laws? May be put people into padded cells from birth, to be completely safe from each other?

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  16. #91
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    Well, Boris - it seems you fled from a despotic regime, but brought too many of its precepts with you. I'll save myself some headaches and put you on ignore now.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Well, nice to meet you. As far as your "paradise", I agree it isn't, not due to ideology but due to common old dictatorship under whatever guise it tries to sell itself as. Russia has a lot of problems, flooding it with guns will not solve them (unless you consider universal quiescence a "solution").

    As to freedom, I don't consider freedom the right to shoot whatever you want, when you want. That's just another form of mental illness.
    I don't see where you found "flooding it with guns" solution, my point was simply that no amount of gun bans actually removes guns from the hands of criminals nor cures the underlying societal problems.

    Barging into my house and telling me what I should and should not possess is trespassing at least. As to mental illness, living in la-la land, being detached from reality and threatening other people with violence is indeed a mental illness.

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  19. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by _boris_ View Post
    I am coming from a tyrannical regime called soviet "paradise" where private firearms ownership was outlawed as were all gun components, ammo and even knowledge in forms of books etc. This did not result in the end of domestic violence, suicides, crime or even cops shooting civilians. As a matter of fact the black market of guns and explosives always existed. We still had shootings, mass murder, bombings, armed robberies ... but we would not be allowed to know about them because freedom of press (1a) disappears shortly after 2a. Ask me how I know, my family lived through several occupations. It's eerie how history repeats exactly the same way.

    For those not in the North East, NH is touted as the "free state" compared to the People's Republic of Taxachusetts. Anyone who fear guns and other inanimate objects is free to take the ride down over the border. At least my NH friends are constantly ranting about liberal "massholes" running away from high taxes in MA and into NH, and immediately trying to start building exactly the same utopia there.
    In the last few years several people I know have moved from Massachusetts to New Hampshire. They were simply fed up with the oppressive nanny state atmosphere.

    They had to move deeper into NH because most of the towns near the border have turned into bedroom communities for MassHoles who commute to jobs here.

    The state motto is "Live Free or Die". Many of the transplanted MassHoles don't like that and have been agitating for change.

    Those who wish to oppress people usually start by disarming them. The British in India were just as oppressive to the native population as communists were to their own. The famous activist Mohandas Gandhi once said "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest".

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  21. #94
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    The Party's Republic of California claims that working for a company in California while living in another state creates an obligation to pay California income tax. I am surprised that the Massachusetts socialists have not yet figured that one out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GGaskill View Post
    The Party's Republic of California claims that working for a company in California while living in another state creates an obligation to pay California income tax. I am surprised that the Massachusetts socialists have not yet figured that one out.
    lol, no they figured that out long time ago. There are still plenty of people who are willing to be double taxed but live in freer state. MAss has also gone after people who ride to NH to buy things tax free (no sales tax in NH), so some people I know go to elaborate lengths to skirt the law, i.e. get their tractor bought and delivered in NH, than trailer it over the border.

    If there is one thing that oppressive regimes are good at no matter what, it's collecting taxes and fees.


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