1991 Haas VF1 tool changer crash and recovery

I had a strange problem changing tools on my Haas VF1 today. The tool in the spindle was deposited, the spindle retracted, the carousel rotated, but when the spindle came down on the next tool the machine froze and kicked a carousel position error. I went to auto all axes, and everything retracted fine. However, when I went to MDI -> T2 -> ATC ADV, the carousel moved in before the spindle retraced and slammed the side of the taper into the spindle. This also caused a carousel position error.

Now, every time I try to change tools, the machine advances the carousel while the spindle is in the position to drop off a tool, slamming the taper into the spindle. I think possibly the Haas thinks that there's still a tool in the spindle and is trying to deposit it, but the tool is in the carousel causing some material interactions.

My questions are:
Has anyone seen this kind of problem before?
Does anyone know if there's a way to force the machine to acknowledge that there's no tool in the spindle?
Can I remove the tool from the carousel manually somehow without completely disassembling the carousel?

Thanks for your time!

I think the problem might be the Geneva mark switch. It tells the machine that the tool is in position relative to the spindle. Check Diagnostics screen for TC MRK. A "1" indicates the wheel is in position.
When the machine is started and press MDI, ATC FWD or ATC REV it rotates to tool #1, yes? The Tool#1 switch is working correctly.
There are no switches for the machine to know if a tool is in the spindle.
To remove a tool manually you have to disconnect the door from the carousel, request that tool in MDI and when it gets to the tool hit Emergency Stop. Then you can pull the tool out by hand.

The carousel moving in before the spindle retracts sounds like the Z limit switch. The spindle should move up to the limit before the carousel moves in. Parameter 64 sets where the tool height is for replacing tools.
Refer to the installation manual 96-8000 June 1999.

magno_grail said:

...To remove a tool manually you have to disconnect the door from the carousel, request that tool in MDI and when it gets to the tool hit Emergency Stop. Then you can pull the tool out by hand.

Click to expand...

^^ This.

The machine is trying to remove the tool from the spindle, but the tool is in the pocket that is supposed to be empty.

Go in from the left side window and remove the little bracket with the pin that operates the door. Then open the door by hand and remove the tool from the pocket.

Does your machine have a RECOVER button next to the POWER UP RESTART button?

If it does, remove the tool from the spindle and carousel as described already, then press the recover button and follow the on screen prompts.

Magno_Grail, jancollc;

I removed the tool from the carousel by taking out the slide pin and retracting the door. Put the tool in the spindle, and off she goes like nothing ever happened. Thanks for your help! I thought that pulling the tool might solve it but I didn't realize it would be that easy to pull a tool from the carousel with the spindle being uncooperative.

haastec;

This model predates that feature.

Problem is resolved, thanks for your input everyone!

If you are quick on the “e-stop”, you can hit it as the carousel advances and stop it before it gets to the spindle. The cover will be open and you can reach in and remove the tool manually from the carousel. Then release the e-stop, zero all axes, put the tool back in the spindle and you are back up and running.

Spruewell said:

If you are quick on the “e-stop”, you can hit it as the carousel advances and stop it before it gets to the spindle. The cover will be open and you can reach in and remove the tool manually from the carousel. Then release the e-stop, zero all axes, put the tool back in the spindle and you are back up and running.

Click to expand...

What he said...

On these older machines the easily loose tract of whether they are picking up or dropping off a tool.

For that reason when recovering with this machine I pull Tool in Spindle And In Pocket. Then Do a All Home Reset. MDI T1 all while keeping my hand hovered on E-Stop so that if it gets confused and tries to run a Tool into a spindle that is down...I can hit E-Stop. Pull tool from Carousel, clear alarms, reset, recover, All Home. MDI to Tool 1...or if it is there do a Tool # 3 or whatever. Then reload Tools.

Tad bit of a pain...but you Do Not want the Carousel pounding into the spindle with a tool in the pocket. I can fill you in on what happens...but take my word...It Ain't Pretty.

Spruewell said:

If you are quick on the “e-stop”, you can hit it as the carousel advances and stop it before it gets to the spindle. The cover will be open and you can reach in and remove the tool manually from the carousel. Then release the e-stop, zero all axes, put the tool back in the spindle and you are back up and running.

Click to expand...

Be sure at put rapids at 5% or 25% first. There is no axis braking when e-stop gets hit.

I found this out the hard way, it cost me a new carousel plate.