2018 Haas TM-2P rear 18" from wall?

codeine01 · Dec 20, 2018

Hello gents. I was originally going to get a Mini Mill 2, but the HFO sales guy talked me into a TM-2P. Twice the x travel, 2" more Z travel, and for less than $1k additional, with the current discounts.

40x16x16 TM-2P
20x16x14 Mini Mill 2

The print diagram shows that the rear electrical/control-cabinet enclosure needs to be 36" away from the wall, so it can hinge open. Space is a limitation in my current setup. I feel that 18" is adequate to get behind the machine if necessary. Could one simply take the hinges off the door if you needed to get into the enclosure? I realize that I'll also have to make the electrical connections in here once the machine is initially set, so I'm rather curious about this. Anybody have any hands-on experience with Haas control enclosure cabinets?

Thanks guys

IWUP · Dec 21, 2018

codeine01 said:
Hello gents. I was originally going to get a Mini Mill 2, but the HFO sales guy talked me into a TM-2P. Twice the x travel, 2" more Z travel, and for less than $1k additional, with the current discounts.

40x16x16 TM-2P
20x16x14 Mini Mill 2

The print diagram shows that the rear electrical/control-cabinet enclosure needs to be 36" away from the wall, so it can hinge open. Space is a limitation in my current setup. I feel that 18" is adequate to get behind the machine if necessary. Could one simply take the hinges off the door if you needed to get into the enclosure? I realize that I'll also have to make the electrical connections in here once the machine is initially set, so I'm rather curious about this. Anybody have any hands-on experience with Haas control enclosure cabinets?

Thanks guys

You can probably get by with 18", it's really for the door swing and as you mentioned you could take it off.

codeine01 · Dec 21, 2018

Thanks for the photo, IWUP!

IWUP · Dec 21, 2018

codeine01 said:
Thanks for the photo, IWUP!

I can get you a pic of the door hinge area later today

codeine01 · Dec 21, 2018

Oh that would be great. I'm thinking I can remove the hinge and install some sturdy cam-style hasps, or something similar. Or perhaps wing-nut-style bolts.

Clive603 · Dec 21, 2018

Lit off type hinges would probably work.

But handling a panel that size and height in only 18" of space may be tricky. I've done similar with a smaller panel and a bit more room. Sounds do-able but frustrating because you are very much working blind unless you fabricate something to support it at about the right height and orientation. Began to think that slinging it from the ceiling with a small winch or similar might have been a good idea. Sounds overkill but .... maybe ... especially with your bigger door panel.

Lets face it only time you are likely to want to go in there once all is up'n running is because the machine is down. Not gonna be in the most calm, collected & relaxed frame of mind. Wrestling with tricky door is just what you don't need then.

Think 24" rather than 18" from the wall would make a huge difference. Given a bit more space a bi-folding door with a hinge down the middle becomes practical.

Sounds like a new machine. Whats the suppliers take on modifications to the door and limited access should you need a service call?

Clive

DethloffMfg · Dec 21, 2018

Once you're done setting up the machine you can use a pallet jack to move it back towards the wall. Leave room to access the breaker switch. If you need to service it just pull it back out with the pallet jack. I wouldn't waste that 36" every day of the year for the need to open the cabinet every few years.

codeine01 · Dec 21, 2018

Whats the suppliers take on modifications to the door and limited access should you need a service call?

When he was at the shop, the HFO salesman said that if a tech needed to access that cabinet, as long as they could get in, it wouldn't matter. But I didn't specify 18" at that point... Your 24" recommendation seems wise. He didn't make any comment about a modification such as that being an issue, although I suppose it may affect any warranty regarding that part and could potentially affect resale value.

Clive603 · Dec 21, 2018

Yup. My take is 18" is enough if you are standing up or just need to get something in to push it out. 24" + for bending down to look inside or fiddle. At 5ft 11, 130 lb dipping wet I'm not a large guy either.

Moving it out if need be sounds a good idea but thats a lot of money on pallet jack. Dunno what's underneath for it to sit down on in normal use and to lift it by if fork lift or pallet jack is permissible but if the move it option sounds reasonable maybe there is some "skate thingy" that could live permanently underneath and jack up to roll when needed. A lower level machine tool rated version of those Go-Jack car wheel dolly things springs to mind. No need for castors if it just pulls straight out.

I have a couple of inch and a bit high sliders with lots of small nylon wheels to pull 1 1/2 tons of Smart & Brown 1024 away from the wall for the annual backside inspection. Made very cheaply from what was to hand but very effective. Main disadvantage is not self lifting so I have other arrangements for easily raising the machine to slide them under. Permanent residence not being practical with the 1024, self lifting would be no help anyway.

Clive

codeine01 · Dec 21, 2018

More great ideas!

I'm liking the idea of it being movable - that would give me even more room on the front side of the machine.

The TM-2P is around 5200 lbs, according to Haas' website. I have two 20-ton Stanley hydraulic toe-jacks and two other 20-ton bottle jacks. I could make a very strong welded structure to fit under the base (with the leveling jacks up) that would have external raised "ears" for said jacks. Then perhaps several all-steel non-swiveling casters could be bolted to the bottom of that frame, and use my Warn Pullzall 1000-lb electric winch to pull the front of the machine, while limiting travel with a come-a-long ratchet winch on the rear, and likely several extra travel-limiting slings and rigging - not going to risk anything.

The shop is 6" concrete.

D.D.Machine · Dec 21, 2018

I have like 24" on my vf4ss and vf2ss and it works fine ,,, its a little tight but workable . I would set the mill on the floor like normal and just get 3 machine skates to move it ... jack up the back in the middle and put both back corners on skates then jack the front as close t center as you can get and center a skate in the front ... you "ONLY" want to use three skates. I moved a 20K pound mill around my shop by my self that way and well its slow its not hard to do .

DethloffMfg · Dec 21, 2018

I think just a pallet jack on the TM is fine, just guessing that if you lift the thing 1/2" you have really no risk pulling it out. You're going straight out. Just don't turn the wheel too much on the pallet jack or they can want to kick out, but even then if the machine is just a hair off the floor it isn't going anywhere.

IWUP · Dec 21, 2018

Here are some pics of the back and inside
There's a fan on the door that's connectorized for easy removal
There are 3 hinge pins to remove to get the door off, all pretty straightforward
Edit:
The door is 36" wide and 48" tall

IWUP · Dec 21, 2018

My machine is a TM1-P, watch what vise you use as the door and Z clearance is tricky. The ones that fit without modification are Kurt 3600V or whatever other vise has the same specs

converterking · Dec 22, 2018

I am pretty sure OSHA calls for 36" clearance behind the panel. I like the idea of an electric pallet jack to move it for extra clearance when servicing.

bsg · Dec 22, 2018

We have TM2P at work, I have moved the machine several times with a pallet jack while rearranging the shop! I’m on the second floor and don’t have a Hilo big enough to lift the machine!

I have zero clearance behind the machine, there’s a Lista bench up against the electrical cabinet, I just use the pallet jack when we need access to the back of the machine.

On the Kurt vise hitting the enclosure, I set the vise in the middle t-slots with alignment keys, then hand jogged in Y with the doors open to see how much needed to come off the hex for the vise.......IIRC it was shortened by about 1/2 inch? I did this five years ago when we first got our machine, never had a problem with having the shorter hex. One other mod I would make, cut a snap ring groove in the hex to retain a 12 point box end wrench for doing short run production! Make sure to bend the box end flat to clear the doors when using the wrench. I also position the wrench at 3:00 when the part is clamped to keep it from interfering with anything inside the machine......

I also bought a high leverage box end wrench from McMaster-Carr with the tube handle, the tube handle makes it easier on the hands! I shortened the handle to clear everything in the machine, here’s a link to the wrench and tube;

McMaster-Carr
McMaster-Carr

Kevin

codeine01 · Dec 22, 2018

I just ordered a Kurt DX6 - MSCDirect.com had a promo code that gave (10% off? - It's over now and I don't remember what the deal was) but the DX6 was $600 + S/H. Just slightly below Kurt's website at $617. I'll have to experiment with how close the vise is to the door - maybe I'll have to mod it like bsg mentioned - thanks for the McMaster wrench links.

Looks like I can get a 5500-lb pallet jack/truck for about $300.

Thanks for the cabinet/hinge photos IWUP. I'm planning to use metal flex conduit for an overhead whip from the electrical disconnect to the machine, instead of rigid conduit. That way I can make the connections, and move the machine into place, and not disconnect it to pull it out (if ever). Haas tech also recommended (and did someone mention on here?) that the air fitting shouldn't be a quick disconnect, because the small 1/4" orifice of the quick-disconnect restricts the flow, so I'm planning to use a 1/2" NPT with a barb fitting. A 5hp 80-gallon 240 VAC air comp will supply the machine.

Time to order some coolant, I guess! New to all this - any favorites/recommendations?

IWUP · Dec 22, 2018

codeine01 said:
I just ordered a Kurt DX6 - MSCDirect.com had a promo code that gave (10% off? - It's over now and I don't remember what the deal was) but the DX6 was $600 + S/H. Just slightly below Kurt's website at $617. I'll have to experiment with how close the vise is to the door - maybe I'll have to mod it like bsg mentioned - thanks for the McMaster wrench links.

Looks like I can get a 5500-lb pallet jack/truck for about $300.

Thanks for the cabinet/hinge photos IWUP. I'm planning to use metal flex conduit for an overhead whip from the electrical disconnect to the machine, instead of rigid conduit. That way I can make the connections, and move the machine into place, and not disconnect it to pull it out (if ever). Haas tech also recommended (and did someone mention on here?) that the air fitting shouldn't be a quick disconnect, because the small 1/4" orifice of the quick-disconnect restricts the flow, so I'm planning to use a 1/2" NPT with a barb fitting. A 5hp 80-gallon 240 VAC air comp will supply the machine.

Time to order some coolant, I guess! New to all this - any favorites/recommendations?

I think the DX6 will be too big, I looked at the specs and wanted it to work since they are cheaper than the 3600v but I have no regrets getting the 3600v either, they are nice vises. I'll be interested to find out if you can make it work. I was just going off the machine and vise spec sheets when I researched it.
I ran liquidtite conduit from underneath and drilled the bottom of the cabinet. For air I use 3/8" line with quick disconnects but they are the larger Milton V style pieces.
I'm using Condat Mecagreen 450HP, you'll want to get a refractometer too
I use this one
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013S2CPAE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

bsg · Dec 22, 2018

codeine01 said:
I just ordered a Kurt DX6 - MSCDirect.com had a promo code that gave (10% off? - It's over now and I don't remember what the deal was) but the DX6 was $600 + S/H. Just slightly below Kurt's website at $617. I'll have to experiment with how close the vise is to the door - maybe I'll have to mod it like bsg mentioned - thanks for the McMaster wrench links.

Looks like I can get a 5500-lb pallet jack/truck for about $300.

Thanks for the cabinet/hinge photos IWUP. I'm planning to use metal flex conduit for an overhead whip from the electrical disconnect to the machine, instead of rigid conduit. That way I can make the connections, and move the machine into place, and not disconnect it to pull it out (if ever). Haas tech also recommended (and did someone mention on here?) that the air fitting shouldn't be a quick disconnect, because the small 1/4" orifice of the quick-disconnect restricts the flow, so I'm planning to use a 1/2" NPT with a barb fitting. A 5hp 80-gallon 240 VAC air comp will supply the machine.

Time to order some coolant, I guess! New to all this - any favorites/recommendations?

We used so cord to a junction box in the ceiling, gives us plenty of flexibility.....

Kevin

saltfever · Dec 23, 2018

converterking said:
I am pretty sure OSHA calls for 36" clearance behind the panel. I like the idea of an electric pallet jack to move it for extra clearance when servicing.

Yep, thats the reason for clearance. The tech that worked on my machine had no problem with the clearance but the HFO would NOT send him out unless I had the 36" clearance. I think there is 440 volts in there somewhere! YMMV.
Buy a pallet jack. A cheap alternative and always useful. This Grizzly 6,600lb jack was on sale last week for $198. Moving your machine is quick and easy, but when you put it back you must do a precision level which isn't so quick, and do you have a precision level?

2018 Haas TM-2P rear 18" from wall?

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