98 Haas VF-2 wont boot vector drive fault, MOCON & processor halt lights.
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  1. #1
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    Default 98 Haas VF-2 wont boot vector drive fault, MOCON & processor halt lights.

    I purchased a 98 Haas VF-2 earlier this year and have been slowly cleaning and fixing minor issues getting it ready to run. Machine has been down powered for a while. Yesterday I put the way lube system back together and powered up. I get the normal beep but doesn't boot just says "0303FFFC FFC7". Googled this and found only 1 person with this problem with no solution. Further investigating found vector drive green fault light is on. Output voltage is 338vdc. Also noticed clicking relay I think from vector drive a few seconds after power up. Also found halt lights on MOCON and processor board. Removed all cables from MOCON board with same result. Removed data and address cables from processor and I get the all J's screen that I have been getting every once in a while during power up. Pressing program button during powerup shows 0k bbu ram and no coprocessor. Not sure what that means. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

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    Check power supply, + and - 12 and +5.

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    what else were you all fixing on the machine or what other error codes were coming up before if any? when I got my '98 VF-0 on the floor and fired up I had something similar happen I bought the machine knowing that it needed some work. My PCM button on the processor was blinking and upon further inspection the board cluster overheated due to the fan failing it cooked a lot of capacitors and other components on the board.

    Yours sounds like it may need software reloaded or lost memory. Have you checked the battery at all on the processor? Like mentioned above also check your low voltage power supply which can also wreak havoc and cause some stuff to not boot up properly. I'm a novice on this troubleshooting stuff so take it as you wish. Fill us in a little more everything you've done to machine or what you know of its past.

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    There is a post I did a few months back (my ID) which outlines a common fix for the 'jjjj' processor issue. (C40 replace) and the parts listing to replace the dried out caps for the 12/-12/5 power supply. I did my own in a few hours time and this did repair my issues. Your's does sound a bit more progressive. There are posts on here about getting into a power-up and debug mode option? Sounds like you may need a reload, or attempt one and see if that gets you recovered? You may have other issues, and there are sources I found online and on youtube for old haas gen 1 repair centers. There are threads here with Vendor's folks trusted as well. They will even refurb the power supply. PM me if you want some sources. Happy to try and help you along. I know how I felt when mine went down....

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    I have had nothing but positive experience with Rich at Northern Machine Tool Services.
    He just did a Vector-Drive for me last week as a matter of fact.

    Repair service and parts for your haas machine tools parts & field service

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    Thanks for the help so far. The machine did not have any error codes the last time it ran. I wish I knew how long it has been down powered. At least a couple months. The only thing I did was take the lube system apart to clean then re-installed. I also removed the programmable coolant which is still removed but I wouldn't think that would have caused this. Is it possible the battery died while it was down powered and I never got to see the low battery alarm. I checked the low voltage power supply and it was very close to nominal voltages. Does the vector drive always show a fault until the machine is reset? I'm trying to narrow down which component to troubleshoot. I am going to remove the other 2 boards to look at the processor board this weekend. Will the processor board have the halt light on if programming is lost? I am also going to try to boot up in the debug mode if i can figure out how. Can someone with a working machine try the hold program while booting and see what yours says for bbu ram and coprocessor. Thanks again for the help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    I have had nothing but positive experience with Rich at Northern Machine Tool Services.
    He just did a Vector-Drive for me last week as a matter of fact.

    Repair service and parts for your haas machine tools parts & field service
    +1 if you need some parts Rich is a good guy to have on your go to call list

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    I'll go and look for some info in a few on diags and old CPU stuff, but I learned a LOT by calling my source, who actually helped talk me thru debugging and getting to root cause over the phone (so he would know what I needed to send him). In the end, I did my own. (just a dad/son garage Haas). I'll see what I can find for debug and checking, but for some of your Q's, I could call the source these guy's listed and chat them up. They stand to get your biz, and I always find they want to help. (my source did anyway).

    Quote Originally Posted by dwilley View Post
    Thanks for the help so far. The machine did not have any error codes the last time it ran. I wish I knew how long it has been down powered. At least a couple months. The only thing I did was take the lube system apart to clean then re-installed. I also removed the programmable coolant which is still removed but I wouldn't think that would have caused this. Is it possible the battery died while it was down powered and I never got to see the low battery alarm. I checked the low voltage power supply and it was very close to nominal voltages. Does the vector drive always show a fault until the machine is reset? I'm trying to narrow down which component to troubleshoot. I am going to remove the other 2 boards to look at the processor board this weekend. Will the processor board have the halt light on if programming is lost? I am also going to try to boot up in the debug mode if i can figure out how. Can someone with a working machine try the hold program while booting and see what yours says for bbu ram and coprocessor. Thanks again for the help.

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    Some notes I found..

    if you disconnect all the cables from the processor and the halt light goes out the problem is not the processor, normally. rs 232 is a funny thing with haas. check the power supply if it was updated. does it have the computer style power supply or the newer haas oem power supply this is the power supply that powers the processor stack. look at the cable going to the power connector on the bottom right of the processor and see how many wires you have going to it. the newer processors only need 4 wires the older processors needed all the power wires +5 -5 +12 -12 and ground to use rs 232. is the halt light on the mocon board also?

    power off the machine and push and hold the pgm button then power on does it come up with a different screen?

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    Thanks for the info! I attached the screens I am seeing. I am hoping to do some troubleshooting today. It has the computer style power supply. Like I said I checked the voltages and the were almost perfect. I didn't put a scope on it to check for noise or anything though. When you say unplug all the cables from the processor do you mean everything including the data and address cables. So just have power going to the board? Yes, the halt light is on the MOCON board. Also, the green fault light is on the vector drive but this might be normal until reset. I also hear a click from the vector drive a few seconds after power button is pressed. Will the halt lights come on if the programming is lost? I plan on taking the MOCON board and video board out and checking the battery voltage as well.

    20180915_163428.jpg20180915_163449.jpg20180915_170025.jpg

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    Here is a picture of the processor and MOCON board LEDs. All the LEDs are lit on the processor board and the PGM is blinking. The MOCON board has the +5 and HALT LED on. I also included the vector drive fault LED. I am planning on troubleshooting tomorrow. I will post what I find. Thanks again.

    processor.jpgmocon.jpgvector.jpg

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    I tried to pull the MOCON and video board to check the processor but the ESD bags I had weren't quite big enough to hold the boards so I decided to stop so I didn't damage anything else. I plan on troubleshooting this weekend. If my battery died does that cause just my parameters to be lost or the entire operating system? Is it possible to re-load parameters or operating system without the HFO? How many parameters are specific to my machine?

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    Gotchya ... I'n not an expert and only worked on 1 machine. If you have lost the programming due to lost battery and still have the eeprom code in place, (the .bin file loaded into the perm. program space then: I thought there was a way to enter into DEBUG, do some odd -reload keystroke option, type "VFx" (machine type) and it walked you thru re-installing the perm code into the battery supplied program space. Then you would reload/re-enter your parms. (do you have a backup). if everything is gone (2 sides of proms loaded).... I think it's HFO'ville. Hopefully someone here can assist. Checking some google searches for reloading haas and debug as key's might find some info I'm sure I've seen? Or make a call to one of the repair houses. I think you'll get some solid info on your best next option. I've seen posts about reloading the full system, but you need some type of .bin file. and you use RS232 or Floppy/USB (if you converted) it's all fuzzy math to me w/o guides and docs... but that's where the HFO comes in.

    Ps= curious, Do you know what version was on your machine? 9.x or 10.x ?


    Quote Originally Posted by dwilley View Post
    I tried to pull the MOCON and video board to check the processor but the ESD bags I had weren't quite big enough to hold the boards so I decided to stop so I didn't damage anything else. I plan on troubleshooting this weekend. If my battery died does that cause just my parameters to be lost or the entire operating system? Is it possible to re-load parameters or operating system without the HFO? How many parameters are specific to my machine?

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    I am not sure what version it is. I will try searching how to get into debug mode but I'm not sure I can. I plan on calling the place recommended above and see if they can help. While removing the boards I found that the RS-232 cards are the side of the cabinet have extreme corrosion. When I hauled the machine it rained on it pretty bad. It was wrapped in plastic but some water might have gotten on the RS-232 connector and onto the circuit board. I started checking continuity to see if any pins were shorted but didn't find anything. Is it possible the board finally corroded enough that there was some current draw from the battery which caused it to drain?

    20180923_114756.jpg

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    Your vector drive fault light is not on. That is the power light. The fault light is the red one next to it.

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    Thanks. I guess I never looked at the vector drive when the machine was running fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Your vector drive fault light is not on. That is the power light. The fault light is the red one next to it.

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    Just saw this part- The RS232 runs over a set of circuits. An Asyn controller, and they use a quad RS232 receiver chip. This chip uses a +12 and derives the -12 internally needed by an external capacitor... yep- The famous C-40 found to be a common failure component (as noted here and by others for 'e' 'j' and other chars on cursor). C40, and the replacement is listed on the post below (from Amazon) .27$

    Now.... It's speculation but- your very eroded 232 board which connects to the same 232 recvr/Xmitter and uses the +12/-12 I suspect, could be a factor in your overall issue. Possibly C40 related issues too? Again, you have more issues than I did, but for PM on a garage sweat equity machine I think you can expect to do the PowerSupply PM upgrade, replace C40, and repair/replace those 232 connectors if you plan to use 232. Put in a new battery, then follow steps to dump RAM memory, and reload from debug/reboot (process noted on other post I sent ya). ( PS I did buy the drip-feed item advertised here. PM me for details.. it's cool!).


    from my post here:
    Newbie rebuild - 98 orig membrain/CRT- small "e"' all the time on the input line....
    see pics in that thread.
    PIC 1- The 44PLCC IC 68C681 is a Dual Async RxTx DUART device. square gull-wing thing. Part of the serial comms settings chip.
    PIC 2- the ADM238 is a QUAD 232 Rvcr/Transmitter IC. (line driver) The 4 in-a-line little yellow SM (surface mount) caps in the pic below. C40 is the most right and connects to pins on the ADM238 IC. Which is part of the circuitry that communicates back/forth via the ribbon cable to the Ops Pendant

    Quote Originally Posted by dwilley View Post
    I am not sure what version it is. I will try searching how to get into debug mode but I'm not sure I can. I plan on calling the place recommended above and see if they can help. While removing the boards I found that the RS-232 cards are the side of the cabinet have extreme corrosion. When I hauled the machine it rained on it pretty bad. It was wrapped in plastic but some water might have gotten on the RS-232 connector and onto the circuit board. I started checking continuity to see if any pins were shorted but didn't find anything. Is it possible the board finally corroded enough that there was some current draw from the battery which caused it to drain?

    20180923_114756.jpg

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    some of those last screen shots with the random #'s n letters along with the solid orange screen I believe were similar to my processor issue. especially all lights being on and the PGM light blinking same thing as my issue. I never ended up being able to fix the old board tried several places and attempts at it in the end had to find another board not a quick process.....

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    Thanks for the info everyone. I did some troubleshooting over the weekend here is what I found. Measured the battery voltage at 3.079 VDC. I was actually hoping the battery had just died and the board could just be re-loaded but looking like not. Measured low voltage power supply at 4.98, -12.07, and 12.02 VDC. Also measured AC VRMS and found it was just a few millivolts on each output so pretty clean. Also noticed with video and MOCON board removed voltages were 5.11, -11.69, and 11.64 VDC. Not sure why -12/12 voltages were low with boards removed. Processor board is a 34-3090A but sticker in machine shows 32-3090A so I'm guessing processor has been replaced before. The manual says that the program light blinking means the main program is running. I also noticed that when I get the screen with all J's only the 5v and Halt lights are on, like it fails to boot at all. I plan on calling some board repair places recommended in this thread. Is there anything else I should try? I will probably try to replace the C40 cap and power supply caps like countryguy recommended before I shell out big bucks on a used board or repair. Like him I'm just a hobby guy trying to fix up a machine to use and teach the kids a skill. Here are some pics.

    20180930_111911.jpg20180930_112544.jpg20180930_112614.jpg20180930_114311.jpg20180930_114343.jpg

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    I called a few board repair places and got a little info. I haven't got in touch with the place recommended above but I will try again today. The one place quoted me $1600 - $2200 and basically said they won't send the boards back until it's fixed. I did notice that in the picture of the LEDs it looks like the halt light is dim which per the manual is normal so I may want to look at that again. That picture was taken with the video and MOCON removed. Also, can I use a spare computer power supply to power up these boards to rule out the power supply? Thanks


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