'98 Haas VF never boots on first try. ???
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  1. #1
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    Default '98 Haas VF never boots on first try. ???


    Ok, Here is the one that I've been afraid to ask about...

    Bought a 1998 Haas VF-OE a few months ago. Been working on little maintenance odds and ends while I tool it up. Previous owner said works just fine as long as you turn it on, then back off then on again. He was absolutely right. ...about that last part of his description anyway. Screen kinda makes a nintendo-ish 2 flashing blocks looking error at first attempt. Second attempt is always reliable.

    I do not have any plans to tear the machine (further) apart until it has paid for not only itself, but the solution to the problem. Or worse, if it pre-maturely becomes a further problem.

    Having quickly learned that haas doesn't consider anything less than an upper-level assembly "a component" I'm not even going to bother with them. My thinking on this is that it must be a capacitor on the processor board. Or ???


    Has anyone on here faced this problem and successfully identified and/or fixed it themselves?



    See attached screen shot for how boot looks at first power on with two flashing block characters.

    Cheers


    img_20191031_140024249_burst004.jpg

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    The number one thing to try on older machines is a new power supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by friesen View Post
    The number one thing to try on older machines is a new power supply.
    You mean with this problem specifically?
    Replacing which power supply fixes it?
    How would I identify it?

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    The power supplies are known for going bad. When they go bad there are any number of symptoms. If it was my machine I'd change it before working in anything else, or at least check the voltages coming off the supply, for sure when it's in lala land.

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    check your voltage from the low voltage power supply. +5 vdc, +12 vdc, -12vdc. it's ATX computer power supply. if you replace it with a computer power supply. it needs to be at least 250 + watt . 200 or less don't seem to be able to handle it or last very long. as others have said it's a week link in the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    check your voltage from the low voltage power supply. +5 vdc, +12 vdc, -12vdc. it's ATX computer power supply. if you replace it with a computer power supply. it needs to be at least 250 + watt . 200 or less don't seem to be able to handle it or last very long. as others have said it's a week link in the system.


    Hoss, can you help me identify the power supply? I see nothing in the cabinet that looks even remotely like a PC power supply.
    Is it one of the boards in a stack behind the sheet metal cover where the controller board is?


    TH

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    It should be in the upper right area just to the left of the main power switch and contactor. I replaced mine with one from a normal PC, it had a few extra connectors that I tied up with a zip tie and have ignored since. You do however need to connect two of the wires together to get the power supply to turn on. I can't remember which ones off the top of my head but could find out if need be.

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    should be top center and either painted gray or a silver color. its cables go to both the power distribution board, and to the stack on the left. the power distribution board on the right and a tad below the power supply should have 3 red LEDs on it you can check the voltage across the 3 LEDs . they are marked and the 5vdc should be 5.25 vdc. the +12.vdc should read 12.25 vdc. the - 12 vdc should read around-12.25 . if you notice the LED not being bright then your voltage could be low.

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    Default Haas controller power supply assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    should be top center and either painted gray or a silver color. its cables go to both the power distribution board, and to the stack on the left. the power distribution board on the right and a tad below the power supply should have 3 red LEDs on it you can check the voltage across the 3 LEDs . they are marked and the 5vdc should be 5.25 vdc. the +12.vdc should read 12.25 vdc. the - 12 vdc should read around-12.25 . if you notice the LED not being bright then your voltage could be low.


    My only gray or silver power supply is in the very bottom center of the cabinet and doesn't resemble a PC power supply. Nor is it even connected to anything.

    I do have three direct mount wire-wound transformers. One at top of cabinet near the main switch and two mounted to the floor of the cabinet below the IO board.

    There is something at top center but it is gold, the only thing labeled and clearly marked "Probe Power Supply".
    ...it also doesn't resemble a computer power supply.


    See attached pictures...

    img_20190831_162921309.jpg

    img_20190831_161459215_hdr.jpg

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    Where do the wires from the CPU end at?

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    Does this machine have a probe?

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    your power supply should be just to the left of the probe power supply. not sure what the hell the 1 in the bottom of the cabinet is. but it isnt factory. my guess is its someone's home made deal for the logic voltage to the Axis drivers. there is definitely some home made repairs going on here.

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    Default VF-OE Electrical Cabinet

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    your power supply should be just to the left of the probe power supply. not sure what the hell the 1 in the bottom of the cabinet is. but it isnt factory. my guess is its someone's home made deal for the logic voltage to the Axis drivers. there is definitely some home made repairs going on here.


    The one in the bottom is not (or no longer) connected. The probe power supply doesn't have anything near it other than a cabinet mount transformer. Don't think a probe was on the machine at time it was purchased new. But there is some evidence of a probe setup that the customer may have kept out of the sale.

    See pic...


    img_20190831_161413466_hdr.jpg

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    ok this picture answers everything lol. on the same plate as the probe power supply, is the other power supply. its 1 of the upgraded units. those came out around 2009 ish ?? follow the wires from the stack of boards under the cover on the left. it would lead to the other smaller power supply on the right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    ok this picture answers everything lol. on the same plate as the probe power supply, is the other power supply. its 1 of the upgraded units. those came out around 2009 ish ?? follow the wires from the stack of boards under the cover on the left. it would lead to the other smaller power supply on the right.

    Ok, looks like maybe only one pcb? Perhaps the smaller portion sectioned off by large heatsink or is the whole thing the power supply for controller or half for probing? or???

    Secondly is the oddball power board (4th pic, that is disconnected) at the bottom of the cabinet by chance for the pcool spigot or perhaps an Mcode option that is no longer present?



    1.jpg

    2.jpg

    img_20190831_161531419.jpg

    3.jpg

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    the 1 on the bottom that isn't being used anymore , was used for the drivers. it isn't a factory power supply. the power supply that's up top is a multi power supply. it creates a +12, -12, +5 vdc for the processor, video, and mocon board. a different section of that power supply does the +12 and -12 for the drivers. another part of the power supply does voltage for the probe. there used to be be 3 separate power supplies in your machine for thos 3 separate jobs. the voltages in that new power supply are separated so a problem in 1 area won't interfere with another area if that makes sence.

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    Default HAAS VF power supply, component level repair

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    the 1 on the bottom that isn't being used anymore , was used for the drivers. it isn't a factory power supply. the power supply that's up top is a multi power supply. it creates a +12, -12, +5 vdc for the processor, video, and mocon board. a different section of that power supply does the +12 and -12 for the drivers. another part of the power supply does voltage for the probe. there used to be be 3 separate power supplies in your machine for thos 3 separate jobs. the voltages in that new power supply are separated so a problem in 1 area won't interfere with another area if that makes sence.

    Ok, that is good information. But still kinda hoses me if it is indeed in the process of failing with the whole power ON/OFF/ON thing to start the machine every time. Like one of them TV/VCR combos from the 80s. Just makes you throw away two things (or 3) when one goes bad. Hoping to find someone that may have repaired this problem at the component level. Or at least identified the problem at the component level.

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    u still need to check the voltage when it isn't booting up to make sure a stack board isn't going bad and that's indeed the power supply to be sure. also if you do verify it is the power supply. it needs repaired or replaced before it hurts the other boards. lower voltage means high current on components.

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    do believe you could still go back to the atx unit. but I need to see a better picture of all your drivers to see if the +12 and -12 are still being used. or if ur drivers were upgraded to the newer style.

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    Default Haas VF Power supply swap with PC PSU?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    do believe you could still go back to the atx unit. but I need to see a better picture of all your drivers to see if the +12 and -12 are still being used. or if ur drivers were upgraded to the newer style.

    X Y Z A drives are all mfgd in late 2018.
    Looks like only one of them has the small power plug going to it, rest are hanging (pic 3).



    b.jpg

    .jpg

    c.jpg


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