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98 VF/4 w/ 4th/5th TRT210. Looking to find decent setup docs or online classes.

C

countryguy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
Mich, USA
Hi everyone, The rebuilt haas is working well and it's time to now stretch into the winter months project : Getting a TRT210 running in 3+2 on this 98 VF/4. Wondering if there are folks running 3+2 (or even 5 axis) w/ older original Haas control (9.64 on ours) with a TRT or Trunnion? I see we won't have Tool Center Point Control / DWO. (Simplify 3+2 and 5-Axis Machining with DWO/TCPC – Haas Automation Tip of the Day - YouTube) but I'm sure folks managed w/o this upon a time... I've searched for online classes, tutorial docs, and local community college courses but I'm not sure anyone has this older stuff being taught.

The Son did find the CAM (HSM Works) has a post for older Haas and Non-TCPC so I assume we can use that. We just are not sure how to go about getting into the table setups, offsets, and basic 'hello world' type 3+2 project.

TIA and any pointers appreciated.
 
Since you're calling it 3+2 I assume you're just using it for positioning.
Just use a different work offset at each change in rotational position.

ie: G54 is A0B0
G55 is A90B0
G56 is A90B90
etc.
 
For positioning work (3+1, 3+2) you can just set different work offsets like he said above. It's pretty easy, so long as you only have a handful of offsets.

For simultaneous 5-axis "multi-axis" programming, your CAD origin needs to be the intersection of the rotary axes in the actual machine. That requires mounting your workpiece (with fixture, etc) onto the trunnion then measure it in relation to the mechanical XYZAB origin, then reposition your CAD model in relation to the measured change. It's a time consuming process but there's no alternative for simultaneous work.

I have a 1997 VF2 running a 160 trunnion, but its controller and software were updated in 2011, so definitely not the original stuff. Despite that, the old hardware does its job..
 
Thanks... your reply hits our nail on the head. Definitely trying to understand what the initial setup for 5 axis Simul means. We have a 5thAxis (the co.) workholding fixture. The CAD origin and setup is where we are confused. I'm trying to understand your comment to 'measure it in relation to the mechanical XYZAB origin". for Simul milling, we would mount the fixture on. Get it centered on the B platter. Then say we have a block of aluminum as 1" x 1" x 1". We then need to get the measured center points for Z, X, Y, A, B. at the.5" point of the alu block. Those would become the origins? Just trying to get some conceptual understanding at this point of basic 101 setup.
 
Well, the quick explanation is that your programmed origin (for simultaneous work) must be located off the trunnion itself, not the workpiece. So then you adjust the CAD/CAM model in such a way that it represents the physical configuration of the machine, with the figure and material in their proper location. You have to adjust the CAD model to reflect your machine, not adjust the machine to reflect the CAD model. It's a different way of thinking.

About the origin position, the way I explain it is to describe the origin needs to be a location that won't change when the rotary axis/axes move. If you program the origin on the top surface of a block of material, the TLO and work offsets would only apply at the machine's current position when those offsets were set in the controller. If you then, for instance, rotate the A-axis by 90 degrees...well the XYZ point you set on the top of your block is now sitting a couple inches down because it's swung over toward you. The CAM software doesn't know how to adjust the coordinates since it doesn't know where the rotary axes are spinning in relation to the workpiece. That is unless you use the Haas DWO.

That's the big difference when dealing with 5-axis work on these older controllers, because the origin is no longer part of the workpiece but instead it's part of the machine's hardware. When moving to the new fancy controller (or equivalent from a different 5ax machine) the controller can indeed compensate for it through its internal kinematics. DWO is a lot easier, but older machines can't use it :(

Send me a PM or email, I have some setup documents that I've written which you might be able to use.
 

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YdnaD, Let me know if you did not get a PM w/ my email. . Tried 2x now Nothing is in my messages SENT file. This usually works fine.

I can post it here... and then edit out afterwards. REally wanted to play w/ this too.




YdnaD said:
Well, the quick explanation is that your programmed origin (for simultaneous work) must be located off the trunnion itself, not the workpiece. So then you adjust the CAD/CAM model in such a way that it represents the physical configuration of the machine, with the figure and material in their proper location. You have to adjust the CAD model to reflect your machine, not adjust the machine to reflect the CAD model. It's a different way of thinking.

About the origin position, the way I explain it is to describe the origin needs to be a location that won't change when the rotary axis/axes move. If you program the origin on the top surface of a block of material, the TLO and work offsets would only apply at the machine's current position when those offsets were set in the controller. If you then, for instance, rotate the A-axis by 90 degrees...well the XYZ point you set on the top of your block is now sitting a couple inches down because it's swung over toward you. The CAM software doesn't know how to adjust the coordinates since it doesn't know where the rotary axes are spinning in relation to the workpiece. That is unless you use the Haas DWO.

That's the big difference when dealing with 5-axis work on these older controllers, because the origin is no longer part of the workpiece but instead it's part of the machine's hardware. When moving to the new fancy controller (or equivalent from a different 5ax machine) the controller can indeed compensate for it through its internal kinematics. DWO is a lot easier, but older machines can't use it :(

Send me a PM or email, I have some setup documents that I've written which you might be able to use.
Click to expand...
 
Bought this book... $10 bucks used. w/ the DVD. Setup gear includes our 210 and Haas code So this was a good find. Comes w/ code, and lab work. Looks like we'll get thru some basics. Just wanted to share.
learn4-5axis.jpg
 
Hey countryguy, have you bought the TRT yet? How are you interfacing with the machine?

That's going to be the deciding factor whether you have full 5 axis or just 3+2.
 
yup... Publisher: camInstructor (2015)
ISBN-10: 1927359708
ISBN-13: 978-1927359709

bought used from Amazon books. They still sell via CamInstuctor.
 
We connect the TRT directly to the Haas. A & B ports. We have the single channel red controller, but do not use it.


Booze Daily said:
Hey countryguy, have you bought the TRT yet? How are you interfacing with the machine?

That's going to be the deciding factor whether you have full 5 axis or just 3+2.
Click to expand...
 
You must have both axis drive boards then. That would be full 5.

The red box would be 3+2. The indexes are programmed in the box and triggered by a user defined M code.
 
Ohhhh Thats good to know. So I cannot (or could not ) run 3+2 without the red controller and it's Mcode capability? Is that what we're saying here? I passed on the A and B dual controller.. And just did the single one.

Booze Daily said:
You must have both axis drive boards then. That would be full 5.

The red box would be 3+2. The indexes are programmed in the box and triggered by a user defined M code.
Click to expand...
 
I have 2 VF-2SS w/ 4th. There is a separate drive board for the A axis, just like the X,Y and Z axis.
The cables plug into the A port in the side of the cabinet. This give me full 4 axis interpolation.

Years ago, I ran different brands of VMC's with a Haas HRT that was run through the box. The box was programmed for each index and was triggered by an M code. (M32 I think in this case)


I'm assuming that because you have the cables plugged into the corresponding ports, that you must have the drive boards. My 5th axis port is just a hole in the cabinet because I don't have a 5th axis board.

I'm no expert on this stuff, just going by my own experience.
 
Check!! gotchya. Thanks for the note back! We'll figure it all out. We have the 5th axis drive and cables all connected and running. The HRT210 A & B connect directly to the Haas. Yep yep. :-)

Booze Daily said:
I have 2 VF-2SS w/ 4th. There is a separate drive board for the A axis, just like the X,Y and Z axis.
The cables plug into the A port in the side of the cabinet. This give me full 4 axis interpolation.

Years ago, I ran different brands of VMC's with a Haas HRT that was run through the box. The box was programmed for each index and was triggered by an M code. (M32 I think in this case)


I'm assuming that because you have the cables plugged into the corresponding ports, that you must have the drive boards. My 5th axis port is just a hole in the cabinet because I don't have a 5th axis board.

I'm no expert on this stuff, just going by my own experience.
Click to expand...
 
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