Anyone running the new EC-400?

Has anyone over in the states started running the new EC-400 yet?

We have one of the old version and it is starting to get old and worn. The new version is one candidate for replacement, possibly with the pallet pool.

Would be very interesting to hear from someone who actually runs one. All we have here at the moment is salesman talk..

only the older version. not seen any of the newer 1s in my area yet.

I have one with pallet pool, delivered in end of June. No experience with the old version though. What do you want to know?

I've ran the old one with pallet pool. Not sure of changes on new model.

thesidetalker said:

I have one with pallet pool, delivered in end of June. No experience with the old version though. What do you want to know?

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Are you happy with the machine? We have been running HAAS for close to 15 years now so we know many of the ups and downs with them.

Here are some concerns you maybe can shed some light on?

Any places for chip-build up?
The salesman says it has a separate pump for flushing the inside of the enclosure.

Is the A-axis brake strong enough?
Sometimes we have to unlock the brake and make a small movement to get correct position after some heavy drilling.

Any issues with thermal growth?
Our DM1 moves alot in Z-axis. Would be a bummer with 20+ offsets in a pallet pool

How many tools did you get?

dallack said:

Are you happy with the machine? We have been running HAAS for close to 15 years now so we know many of the ups and downs with them.

Here are some concerns you maybe can shed some light on?

Any places for chip-build up?
The salesman says it has a separate pump for flushing the inside of the enclosure.

Is the A-axis brake strong enough?
Sometimes we have to unlock the brake and make a small movement to get correct position after some heavy drilling.

Any issues with thermal growth?
Our DM1 moves alot in Z-axis. Would be a bummer with 20+ offsets in a pallet pool

How many tools did you get?

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I went with the 100-tool ATC. I was worried at first it might be slow like the old 24/40 style. It is actually quite fast. Its the newer style which moves full speed until it reaches the next tool. Changing tools on opposite sides of the carousel is approx 10 sec. I was thinking it could be godawful slow not being able to pre-stage a tool if I'm running random pallets, but it is quite fast. No noticeable wait times in programs even doing quick drill/tap programs. Sometimes pallet to pallet you can grab a tool pretty far away from last one, but IMO only a small delay if you're running 10-15+ minutes per pallet.

I haven't had issues with the brake, but I don't run too many large drills. Largest typically is 21mm. This one loads the Z axis approx 70% and it is about at the edge of the pallet, 200mm off center. I can check later, I have this setup still.
What's interesting is the ballscrew is off to one side on Z, and not in the center. Not sure if or how much twist I can get on this part at that load, but it seems to run just about the same load on B90 as B-90.
This part I drill 13" thru 304SS (half from each side.) I used to run this part on my UMC750ss. To me it seems the rotary on the EC400 has less runout. I get slightly less mismatch in the center of the part, running on the horizontal. Sorry I don't have many measurements on accuracy of this part, tolerances are pretty open and if it looks ok, it pretty much gets signed off

Can't comment yet on thermal growth. Hasn't been a problem for us. Most of the tolerances of parts I run on this one are ±.1 or .25mm Maybe I can check some tools throughout the day. I'd imagine it is similar to their other machines.

The chip evacuation is excellent. This is my first horizontal, so I don't have much to compare it to. However, it seems the flood and wash-down coolant gets pretty much everything out of the enclosure. The only time I notice some minimal buildup is if you continuously run the same parts over and over. If you mix it up a bit with 2 or 3 different jobs, the machine moves more and clears just about everything out. It is real nice not having to sweep out any chips into an auger or conveyor.

Two coolant pumps move a LOT of coolant in that small space.

Rigidity? Seems like a regular Haas to me. The iron looks like they're headed in the right direction, but I think it's still limited by the spindle. What I mean by that is the column has a wider stance on the X-axis. The bearing trucks are further apart. Compare to my 2016 UMC - the Y-saddle is very narrow in the X-direction, which I assume contributes heavily to it's flimsy..ness. It is quite floppy.

The EC400 cuts fine, similar my other verticals.


Not much in the way of complaints so far. I have some minor enclosure leaks and the solenoid to activate the tool setter probe randomly leaks air. My HFO is working to correct them.

The tool probe is kinda neat, they have it covered and a pneumatic cylinder lifts it up, opening the cover.

I think it's my favorite machine in the shop. But it is the newest. Seems the new machine is always my favorite, until the next new one

I could probably add some pictures later. Let me know if there's something you want to see or other questions

One other thing is the electrical cabinet runs HOT. Lot of drives in there.

This machine runs the hottest of any in my shop, and actually almost overheats so we have a fan temporarily blowing on the elec. cabinet. Might want to go with the cabinet cooler option!

Thank you very much for your input thesidetalker!
Sounds like HAAS made a decent job on this new machine. We have a 2014 year VF-4SS, and that one and the old EC-400 is about the same regarding rigidity. Hopefully the new one is up a few notches.
We where told to get the cabinet cooler, since there are so many servos in the cabinet, especially with the pallet pool.

It would be very interesting to hear if you could check some tools and see if any lengths are changing during the day!

There is a big machine expo next week in Europe. We are going there to check it out, but nothing beats the words of a daily user. Thanks once again!

Here's the ATC looks like going one side to the other

Is there a way to precall the next tool, so the wheel starts sooner? (I got the impression not so from you post above, but maybe I was confused.)

bryan_machine said:

Is there a way to precall the next tool, so the wheel starts sooner? (I got the impression not so from you post above, but maybe I was confused.)

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Yeah of course, just like on any other machine.

Just showing the maximum time from one side to the other, say after a pallet change and you might not have the next tool ready.

Yeah, I make it about 11 seconds - would be a special case where that was a deal breaker.

thesidetalker said:

Here's the ATC looks like going one side to the other

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That is one big tool wheel! But like Bryan said, if it's at most one time/pallet it needs to go all the way around without precalling, not much of an issue.

Did you buy one ? Thinking of getting one so would be interesting to know if any good

Captinengineer said:

Did you buy one ? Thinking of getting one so would be interesting to know if any good

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Our old EC-400 developed a grinding sound from the spindle after the holidays 2019.
After some thinking and comparing we ordered a Mazak HCN4000. More money, but also more machine. It's been running since march 2020 without issues.

Thanks for reply .

We have always run Haas , never had many issues bar the normal grips about swarf and coolant leaks. I want a new horizontal with pallet pool and the haas seemed ideal but I thought , maybe just see what else is out there - so contacted dmg and they are offering there MHz 4000 for not a lot more and doosan are about the same as Mori- so do you have any advice as it’s all getting a bit bewildering, ie is a mori like a formula one car - great in a race track environment but stick it in a normal jobbing shop and it falls of the track .

Think I’m asking if you ran haas and then went to a masak- was it painful ?

Sorry for long reply any advice from anyone would be great

Captinengineer said:

Thanks for reply .

We have always run Haas , never had many issues bar the normal grips about swarf and coolant leaks. I want a new horizontal with pallet pool and the haas seemed ideal but I thought , maybe just see what else is out there - so contacted dmg and they are offering there MHz 4000 for not a lot more and doosan are about the same as Mori- so do you have any advice as it’s all getting a bit bewildering, ie is a mori like a formula one car - great in a race track environment but stick it in a normal jobbing shop and it falls of the track .

Think I’m asking if you ran haas and then went to a masak- was it painful ?

Sorry for long reply any advice from anyone would be great

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'
The surprisingly small price difference between Haas and premium machine, and our impressiosn of the EC-400 made us abandon Haas for the first time purchasing a mill


After we ruled the EC-400 the choice stood between the Mazak HCN4000 and the DMG NHX 4000
Both very close in specs and price. We went with Mazak this time.
Since the old machine was breaking down, we ordered a stock machine that came with a 120 pot toolchanger. Not using all of them yet, but may come handy in the future.

We are not using the mazatrol part of the controller, just EIA from CAM. Works ok, but some tinkering with tool management. I'm not running the machine, but the hazzle seems worth it in gains of productivity.

Thank you