buying a new vf2ss?
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  1. #1
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    Default buying a new vf2ss?

    Hi all.

    Lately I have really been contemplating selling my 94 VF0 because it has recently been causing me some small problems here and there. Seems to be one thing and something else to follow. Great machine for what I paid for it and it got my business off of the ground.

    Recently, I have been contemplating getting a vf2ss. I am somewhat familiar already with the Next Gen control, so I do not think that'd be an issue. I really like what haas has to offer and their online presence, etc. I know they are not the best machines, the most rigid etc. I think as a whole experience, I want to stick with haas. In any case I'm just looking to get feedback from people who have bought a haas VMC in the last few years and see what you think. I also had a machinery salesman trying to sell me a hyundai wia and got me a price for a similar model with one of those machines. Not terribly far off from what I would get from haas. I really like the idea of buying an american made machine. I know people have opinions about that on both sides, so I would like to hear them. I cannot stand the memory size on a fanuc control, and that is one of my main gripes.

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    I've been running a 2015 VF-3SS since new, and it's exceeded my expectations.

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    I sell new & used CNC equipment now. Started off as a machinist /programmer. I have experience with both Haas & Hyundai Wia. Both are good machines, even Doosan offers a similar model as the Hyundai. Given the chance Doosan will cut their price lower than the Hyundai, I know from experience. The South Korean market is struggling, machine tool prices are going to be good for the buyer for a while. That being said, I would still consider buying service and support more than anything. I recommend to all my clients to buy based on local support. Down time is the number 1 factor to consider in my opinion. Every machine tool has its limits. Every sales man will bash others machine builders then be wearing their competitors shirt two years later, trying to sell you the same machine he talked crap about. Just understand your application and parts. Assuming this is job shop work. If you are running harder/sticky materials on a machine you know isn't as rigid as other, just slow it down some. I have run Haas in Aluminum, Nickle, Stainless etc.... did fine in harder materials but I did have to slow it down and take lighter cuts. Favorite part about Haas for me was when a spindle went, a van showed up that day with the new spindle in the back.
    Haas hold their value on the secondary market better than just about any other machine tool and sell quickly. I just sold 2 2012 Haas VF4SS machines, have 7 more Haas coming. I will be able to sell all 7 Haas before I could sell just one Hyundai Wia. Just something to consider as well.

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    we upgraded from a 2000 VF3 to a 2018 VF4. The machine is all they say it is. Got the probing option too. Love it! I wouldn't think twice about getting another new Haas. All sorts of improvements, auto grease lube ( easy on your coolant) really well done air control cabinet ( all your air valves and controls in one place) I'm really impressed with the machine.

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    I think the deciding factor may be how you dispose of the vfo you may have a good enough trade in value against the new Haas machine and making room for your new machine at the same time. If you are confident you can sell it either before or after you purchase a different brand of machine that opens the options up better for you.

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    We've bought 42 VF2-SS's in the past 3 years with a new one hitting the floor every 5 weeks. Even here in China their service is second to none, As Anthony said about the spindle. If second shift blows a spindle I have a new one on the floor before 9 AM. Yeah, Haas isn't the toughest machine on the market but the ROI is great for what you get. Another thing to look at is the Build a quote from Haas usually gets another 10-15% knocked off.

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    We bought one a year and a half ago. Works well, we only cut copper on it. Rigid tap works well, but it came in with 4X RPM retract, broke the first 2 taps before we realized it. Parameter change fixed that. I'm not sure the tool management aspect has all of the bugs worked out, but otherwise very happy.

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    I got in a new vf2ss about a year ago and have been vary happy with it ,, I also have a couple year old one with the original "PRE" NGC control and well I have to stop and think before using the probing on the NGC control I like it over the original one after I have retrained my self . the new 30 tool capacity is GREAT.

    The 2016 one burned out a couple LED lights the first few months I had it and 2018 one had a chip auger motor go out and it was fixed the next day .. these mills get ran 7 days a week and have "ZERO" down time .. I run my shop as a business and not a hobby shop and need machines I can make money with and that have a good ROI and have found Haas fits both.

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    Owning both, older geneva 24 and 40 station side-mount equipped haas's, I would have to say: I bet the new servo 30 station is fantastic in comparison.
    30 seems like a pretty good compromise. And, the servo is fast.
    I have also seen the new utility layouts on the haas cabinets. Very nice!
    Now if they would just make a 3x VMC with good chip evac, they would own the market.

    Doesn't matter to me.......I'm still anti-haas because of the legacy control support issues.

  11. #10
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    I have the three auger system on both vf2ss and it works GREAT.. I can all day and never have to wash down the chips ,,, the single auger I have on a vf4ss does a crappy job at hi chip loads ,,,

    I hated there chip basket system on the coolant return tell I got the hang of running there augers only as needed and not full time ,,,I get was less chips in the basket now.

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    Place I was at bought 2 new vf4ss in 2018..they were real good machines and still perform. You cant go wrong with Haas.

    You can go very right

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    I just got an email from Haas with a buy 3 get 25% off including options. Maybe you could team up with a couple guys and get it that way.

    I sent in a RFQ for 5 new VF2-SS's
    Probes
    conveyor
    4th interface
    HSM
    Programmable coolant
    High speed 30+1 tool changer

    Delivered for $59,280 each.

    HAI_25_Promo

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    Had a new ST-10 come in a few years ago...Bearings in turret went, looked really nasty in there and turned me off to Haas with 10 of them sitting on the floor.

    I was ready for another lathe as some are just tied up too long on longer runs...and we need to work on getting new customers work out...they get funny like that when they can't get their part made. Anyway I was looking at Okuma an Doosan. It was a bit higher in cost, but it was time to get away from Haas.

    Then I had an issue with my 91 VF-1. I tried playing around with it...then got real busy on milling work and called in HAAS. Next day tech shows up, cabinets opened- - he goes back out to his Van, comes in with a couple boxs, hour later she's up and running.

    I forgot how nice it is to have them come in, fix and leave in the same visit...brought back nightmares of another brand.

    So now I'm busy on both the milling and turning side. Lathes are all dependable, mills dependable except the 1991 was 26 years old its gotta be checking out soon and has zippo for memory, slow tool changes. Maybe I need a mill first, something small and quick to deal with the ton of small jobs...start checking prices on Mills including a Haas.

    Small mills aside from Brother n Speedie are not easy to come by, if just looking at price Haas is the choice. HFO salesman shows up...start talking about the issue with the ST-10 and wouldn't look at another lathe.
    He says don't do anything till he sends me a quote. Quote comes back for Lathe and Mini Mill, tells me ST-10 had redesign and would not be a problem...but had extended warrantee included just the same for a piece of mind. Price is what I was just a bit over what I was going to pay for the Okuma...but no learning curve, tooling and programs all interchangeable.

    Two years on my floor running everyday with only one hiccup...Parts catcher activator on lathe arm broke twice...next day air from Ca, I installed to save HFO a trip. I was told to lowered air pressure a bit and not a problem since.

    Next purchases wil be to update the old machines as I have run out of room...they very well may be Haas's based off the last two I bought. I'll say they cheap out on everything..no more gaskets to seal things...silicone. Cheaper stuff...but they run reliable if kept in their means...just need diapers under them all.

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    A little Late. I have been reading every comment as they came in, but did not have a chance to respond. Thank you to everyone for the feedback. I am trying to determine if I want to add a 4th axis to the machine purchase as well. If I do, I am planning on also purchasing a pierson rotovise. As a job shop, sometimes the ability to rough more op 1 parts at once would be helpful. I think being able to rough (or finish) 4 parts at once with limited fixturing would be a big help. Not to mention the ability to do side work such as drill/ tap etc. Trying to gear towards the multi axis direction. The work coming in has slowed down a bit lately, which has me a little nervous. I know it will go back up again, but that is the hardest part about buying a new machine for me being in the job shop industry. I am trying to get all information laid out so I make the right decision.

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    FWIW,I haven't been able to get in touch with hyundai-wia to purchase some parts for my KIA lathe. I've tried a handful of times over a few years now. I've called and emailed everyone I can find an email address for, but their main contact form is broken and unfortunately I don't have a distributor in my area, it just makes me call "hyundai machine tool USA" with a bad phone number.

    HAAS on the other hand has been excellent, and at least my local doosan guy is on the ball as well. I'm considering a doosan for my next machine.

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    That is what scares me about a brand I never heard of. Not to say I know all machine tool brands, but I have been looking at machines and brands for years now just purely out of interest for the trade, even before thinking of buying a machine. I have never heard of hyundai wia. That was my first thought. Luckily the dealer seems like they will be pretty good with that, but the whole thing makes me a little nervous. Haas I have had good luck getting parts even for my 99 and 94 machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMWLLC View Post
    That is what scares me about a brand I never heard of. Not to say I know all machine tool brands, but I have been looking at machines and brands for years now just purely out of interest for the trade, even before thinking of buying a machine. I have never heard of hyundai wia. That was my first thought. Luckily the dealer seems like they will be pretty good with that, but the whole thing makes me a little nervous. Haas I have had good luck getting parts even for my 99 and 94 machine.
    If you have experience with Haas, and it is working for your parts I would highly recommend staying with them. We have 4 mills now, two 2013ish and one 2017 and one 2018. We've had some issues with the newest one, BUT nothing that stops us from making parts (or really making much difference at all), take that for what you will. We were actually looking at replacing the two older vf2 with the vf2ss, but not sure that is happening this year or not.

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    I have both Haas and Hyundai machines and at the end of the day local support is what matters. The difference is night and day, Hyundai has (or had the last time I checked) poor support in my area and it shows. I find it funny now but I will not make that mistake again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMWLLC View Post
    I am trying to determine if I want to add a 4th axis to the machine purchase as well. If I do, I am planning on also purchasing a pierson rotovise.

    I was going to say I won't tell anyone what to do...but that's a lie.


    The Haas 4th axis is the cats meow as it works seamlessly within their control very easily. Things like Engraving and Wrapping programs around the axis greatly simplifies programming. Meaning quicker programs and less chance of mistakes.

    So IF you think you'll have a need for 4th axis work...I would buy the option.

    Now as to what size 4th axis you want or the roto-vise...those I'd wait and see the work you drum up for it.



    I had a rotary job for a good while and ran using a manual indexer for awhile to drum up the money and need for the purchase...but I decided to save more and instead of a simple 5C I went with an HRT160 because it had more power and a brake...could use for almost anything. A small unit can only run small stuff.

    Well I was kinda right...but for the 1st three years I only ran small jobs in the big HRT. Finally I got a few of the right size jobs and it became a worthy needed tool. Then I got back to back orders needing to be expedited and ran out to buy a 5C rotary unit. Setup went down dramatically, no clearance issues and this thing boogied job ran much faster.

    IS there a point to my babbling...I hope so. Point is...buy the right tool when you need it...don't try to cover all your bases in hopes of jobs fitting the tools. Pierson Vise is a mighty nice looking tool and could see how some jobs could really benefit from it...but I don't have those jobs, so I'm not buying one...now.
    Nothing like laying out $3500.00 bucks on a vise that can handle up to 3" cubes...but the jobs that shows up is a 3.5" cube

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    Did you pull the trigger on a new machine? I am looking to buy now if you still want to try and do a package deal.


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