Chip Evacuation on VF2 ?

Hows the chip evacuation on the vf2 model with the standard single auger? I have a single auger on a vf4ss and spend a ton of time flushing chips down to the auger.. So when I got a vf2ss I ordered it with the multi auger and it works good, but is like $2,500 over the standard single auger setup ,,, so the question is does the floor in the standard vf2 have enough angle to flush the chips down?

No experience with the new mills, but I wouldn't hesitate one second to throw $2500 at better chip control for my '07 VF-2ss. That actually seems extremely reasonable to add 2 augers to a machine.

Are you really still buying new Haas machines?

Matt@RFR said:

Are you really still buying new Haas machines?

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My first thought as well.

The smaller size of the VF-2 over the VF-4 may result in steeper angles of the interior sheetmetal, so giving better chip movement to the single auger. That said, I have both an older (~2000) -2 and -5, and really don't notice a difference in chip management, neither is great without manual raking to the auger.

That said, if you have the extra coolant pump capacity you could rig up a few coolant shower spigots on the upper parts of the back walls, and allow a high flow of coolant to flush the chips to the auger. Might require a bigger or separate pump just for the flushing, and you'd have to be careful that drainage back to the tank remains free flowing.

This is a mod I'm considering for both my machines, along with 20" wheels/tires and cutting the springs for that coveted "low rider" look. Pimpin', Yo!

Also have to watch out for the chips building up in the trough that runs under the floor of the enclosure from the chip auger back to where it dumps into the tank. I know in my ‘16 VF3 that thing has dam little slope to it and no easy way to reach up in there to clear the fine chips that like to build up and restrict coolant flow.

Ya I am thinking about giving Haas a second try on there NG control... I really liked the Doosan 5700 but after 7 months of the TSC pump not working and then 5 months of fighting with a tool changer I had it removed from the shop. It was a really nice VMC but the repairs under warranty were just not getting fixed.

So its time to look for a new machine .. I have had ok luck with the older 2014 and 2016 Haas machines with the old control,, The machines are nothing like the Doosan when it comes to heavy cutting but with only two main dealers in seattle it comes down to Haas or Doosan and Haas I can fix my self.

I have been looking for a used vf2ss with the old control but the price is the same as new and it sounds like Haas has most of the bugs worked out of the NG control.

I looked at brothers before ordering the Doosan and could just not get past the size of the BT30 holders and short Z axis. I do a lot of 4th axis parts and even the 24" Z axis in the VF2 can get fun at times...

Bottom line is seattle area does not have a lot of choices in machine dealers that have dealer support and all machines seem to go down at some point and its just finding ones you can get back going in a short time frame.
I am still running a couple Fadals and well there slow and getting old there super easy to keep running. more than 22 years running Fadals and never had a service call on them ..

Spruewell said:

Also have to watch out for the chips building up in the trough that runs under the floor of the enclosure from the chip auger back to where it dumps into the tank. I know in my ‘16 VF3 that thing has dam little slope to it and no easy way to reach up in there to clear the fine chips that like to build up and restrict coolant flow.

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buy one of the long reach watering hose attachments and cut it at the bend.. screw it onto your wash down hose and stuff it up the coolant return. I use the same setup for washing down the inside of the VF4

D.D.Machine said:

it comes down to Haas or Doosan and Haas I can fix my self.

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Ohh no you can not. HAAS has the NG control on lock down. You can't do shit for repairs yourself anymore (told to me by a HAAS technician).
It seems they are following John Deere's lead.

wheelieking71 said:

Ohh no you can not. HAAS has the NG control on lock down. You can't do shit for repairs yourself anymore (told to me by a HAAS technician).

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Interesting, it would be good to get confirmation of this.

D.D., we have a member (LockNut https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/members/locknut/) who works for Doosan, did you try contacting him about your repair issues? I am still interested in their machines, and am disappointed to hear there's some problems with support.

D.D.Machine said:

and could just not get past the size of the BT30 holders and short Z axis. I do a lot of 4th axis parts and even the 24" Z axis in the VF2 can get fun at times...

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There is merit to that concern. Same exact tool (SGS S-carb 3/8"x1.0x0.01), same exact process in 6061, HAAS CAT40 vs Brother BT30:
Get 30 days out of an end-mill in the Brother. The one in the HAAS has been in there over a year.

Having owned a Brother for a little while now, I can say: the 30 taper is the only thing that would hold me back from having a Brother as my only machine.
They need to step up and build something with a real spindle. Maybe HSK?

Milland said:

Interesting, it would be good to get confirmation of this.

D.D., we have a member (LockNut https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/members/locknut/) who works for Doosan, did you try contacting him about your repair issues? I am still interested in their machines, and am disappointed to hear there's some problems with support.

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Same here! I pretty much had my mind set the next spindle in here would be Doosan.

Milland said:

The smaller size of the VF-2 over the VF-4 may result in steeper angles of the interior sheetmetal, so giving better chip movement to the single auger. That said, I have both an older (~2000) -2 and -5, and really don't notice a difference in chip management, neither is great without manual raking to the auger.

That said, if you have the extra coolant pump capacity you could rig up a few coolant shower spigots on the upper parts of the back walls, and allow a high flow of coolant to flush the chips to the auger. Might require a bigger or separate pump just for the flushing, and you'd have to be careful that drainage back to the tank remains free flowing.

This is a mod I'm considering for both my machines, along with 20" wheels/tires and cutting the springs for that coveted "low rider" look. Pimpin', Yo!

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This was my thought as well - the extra pump. I bought one probably a year ago, just haven't tried it yet. Haven't yet found the time to hook up some hoses and see what's what. Need to find power too.

Your points are spot on though - need to keep an eye on the screen at the end of the auger in which the coolant drains through back to the tank. This can get clogged up easily and before you know it you could have an overflow. On our VF2 we probably clean this out 2-3 times a year. Weird cause we never have to clean out our VF7.

Jobs we get with high chip volume we have to stop once in a while to rake the chips to the auger.

I really liked the Doosan but getting it fixed was the down side to it ... when it got here the tool Carousel would flip out once or twice a day and it was the little VFD that ran the carousel motor that would spit out the error.. Dealer came over 4 or 5 times and watched it error out and did "NOTHING" to fix it ,,, well the power was in the -/+ 5% range that doosan and fanuc wanted they would just say it was a power thing on my end ... I put a transformer on the incoming line and lowered the volts down to 220V like they wanted as a base line and the carousel worked after that .. I was in the range of power that dooosan and fanuc wanted and it should have been there time and Dime that fixed it not mine ...

A couple months later the TSC pump started throwing a error and once more they would come look at it and do nothing to fix it ,,, That went on 5 or 6 times over as many months.

Then the tool changer started locking up when it was started up in the mornings ,,, It would pull the tool out of the spindle but when it went to put the new one in the fingers would be closed and it would lock up and error out ... I would have to cycle the tool release manually like 30 times every morning then it would run fine all day . once more there repair guys would come look at it and do "NOTHING" to fix it.

I keep getting told that Doosan would not give the dealer the parts to fix it but that was not my problem. I get that even new machines will go down and need work . But if there not fixing stuff when its under warranty and costing them to work on it ,, why would I think the service would be better if they getting payed to fix it.

Bottom line is Doosan 5700 was a hell of a nice mill but the service for it just was not there.

Thanks for that writeup. If you don't mind, I want to bring it to LockNut's attention, and see if he has any comments on it.

The VF2 builds up chips just like the VF4. Spend the extra $2500 for the side augers.

D.D.Machine said:

Bottom line is Doosan 5700 was a hell of a nice mill but the service for it just was not there.

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I would think that you shouldn't be needing service on a brand new Doosan? That's what raises my eyebrows

wheelieking71 said:

There is merit to that concern. Same exact tool (SGS S-carb 3/8"x1.0x0.01), same exact process in 6061, HAAS CAT40 vs Brother BT30:
Get 30 days out of an end-mill in the Brother. The one in the HAAS has been in there over a year.

Having owned a Brother for a little while now, I can say: the 30 taper is the only thing that would hold me back from having a Brother as my only machine.
They need to step up and build something with a real spindle. Maybe HSK?

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What? I wonder why that would be. I mean, why would a BT30 have less tool life than a CAT40? Assuming runout is the same. And surely you aren't removing the same volume of metal between 30 days and 1 year...

Mike1974 said:

What? I wonder why that would be. I mean, why would a BT30 have less tool life than a CAT40? Assuming runout is the same. And surely you aren't removing the same volume of metal between 30 days and 1 year...

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I am guessing harmonics? Vibration does some crazy things. Here you go:



12+ month old 40-taper held end-mill on the left, 30 day old 30-taper held end-mill on the right.
Same parameters, same coolant. The 40-taper holder is an Accupro ER32. The 30-taper is the shortest SK16 holder I could find (from Curtis).
Run-out in the SK is nill.

wheelieking71 said:

I am guessing harmonics? Vibration does some crazy things. Here you go:

View attachment 235622

12+ month old 40-taper held end-mill on the left, 30 day old 30-taper held end-mill on the right.
Same parameters, same coolant. The 40-taper holder is an Accupro ER32. The 30-taper is the shortest SK16 holder I could find (from Curtis).
Run-out in the SK is nill.

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I noticed the opposite. Finish was much better with the Brother than the Haas. I don't have the machine for a long time, so I cannot speak about tool life.

Maybe is a tool holder balancing issue? I never heard about Curtis. Is it even shortest than 60 mm?

D.D.Machine said:

I looked at brothers before ordering the Doosan and could just not get past the size of the BT30 holders and short Z axis. I do a lot of 4th axis parts and even the 24" Z axis in the VF2 can get fun at times...

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No long time ago I was thinking exactly like you, but now I'm impressed about the capability of these 30 tapers.

I'll put my money in a S1000 over any 40 taper VF from Haas.

Z travel is another story.