The dreaded tool pop... - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    In all fairness, the more I look at the Haas images the more confused I get ...
    Remembering the time when I was dicking with my VF4's valve, I could swear that the drawbar pulls up for the tool release and the springs push it down to clamp ...

    But now that I am manually releasing the tool in the Minimill, I do feel a definite downward movement of an 1/8 or little more...

    ( damned that video ....)

  2. #22
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    And ....
    I stand corrected:

    30/40 Taper - Tool Release Piston - Sensor Adjustment - VMC


    But, from my experience the noise is NOT coming from the tool pushout by the drawbar, rather the popping happens when the changer arm/umbrella rips the tool
    out of the pocket because it was stuck in it.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    And ....
    I stand corrected:

    30/40 Taper - Tool Release Piston - Sensor Adjustment - VMC


    But, from my experience the noise is NOT coming from the tool pushout by the drawbar, rather the popping happens when the changer arm/umbrella rips the tool
    out of the pocket because it was stuck in it.
    Yea it works like every other drawbar of that exact same style. I was confused by your original description and didnít even realize that you actually believed thatís how it worked.


    Anyways Iíve seen it on lots of fadals in my experience the pop is definitely due to the tool unseating as when I do a hand tool change I still get the loud pop.

    I know itís not a haas but similar drawbar setup and problem.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    And ....
    I stand corrected:

    30/40 Taper - Tool Release Piston - Sensor Adjustment - VMC


    But, from my experience the noise is NOT coming from the tool pushout by the drawbar, rather the popping happens when the changer arm/umbrella rips the tool
    out of the pocket because it was stuck in it.
    Ha(as), no worries. These things are complicated and frustrating, that's why we have so many threads on "Why doesn't this thing work?".

    In fact, we could say it's a bit of a miracle when they DO work properly...

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  7. #25
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    Getting back to the OP's issue - sometimes if the spindle is running hotter than it should, it can increase the tool "suck in" and make the popping worse during removal, especially after a long run and more so if the run ended and the same tool sat, or more-more so if a cool tool was put into the spindle after the long run and then it just sits there.

    Do you have an IR thermometer, or a contact one (better)? It would help to get a reading on the spindle housing after prolonged use. Sometimes even a simple thing like an improperly adjusted oil drip for the bearings can cause overheating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianagos View Post
    From Seymours link it looks like the exact same setup as a fadal drawbar. Seems like they don’t have what fadal calls a floater thought theirs is just built into the spindle.


    Well my fadal never bends the arm but after heavy radial tool loading or long runs if I do a hand change of the tool it definitely makes a loud pop sound and shoves it out a bit hard.

    I haven’t found a great solution except clean the holder and apply a light grease. Typically just the same grease I use on the drawbar/pullstuds.
    Ours will push it out of your hand if you aren't ready for it lol.

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Ours will push it out of your hand if you aren't ready for it lol.
    Yea sometimes it can really knock it out of there and usually when Iím not expecting it.

    An extended z axis has saved me a few times from hitting a part.

    But I think the really solution is a tool magazine where I donít have to load the tools via the spindle. But sadly Iím not rich enough for that and im betting machines of that class probably donít have this sticky tool syndrome

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Ours will push it out of your hand if you aren't ready for it lol.

    See, that is why I was thinking about the drawbar moving in the opposite direction.

    The older machines are as gentle as they can be when inserting a tool into the spindle.
    But, both of my new machines ( less than 5 years old ) give me a fucking a downward jolt just before grabbing the tool!
    Sometimes it's strong enough that my hand twists just a tad and the drive tangs get out of alignment, and then it scares the living crap out of me when it snaps back in place.

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    Kind of wondering if anyone has looked into the difference between ground and hard-turned toolholders, as far as this 'popping' thing goes.

    Disclaimer : I'm firmly on the side of ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Kind of wondering if anyone has looked into the difference between ground and hard-turned toolholders, as far as this 'popping' thing goes.

    Disclaimer : I'm firmly on the side of ground.
    I'm firmly on this side of the ground.

    The other side of the ground is cold and dark...

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  14. #31
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    Here's one I was just thinking of...is there a suggested tool holder replacement interval? What about spindle taper?

    I kinda contribute the pop from simply working the machine, kinda like sometimes you need to wack the draw bar to unseat a collet in a Bridgeport and sometimes you don't. It seems like after really working the machine the collects get stuck more often then not.

    Eg: Bridgeport facing .15 - .20 doc almost full width 3krpm 25ish ipm in 2024 with .500 4 flute TiN coated endmill will 90% of the time stick the collet, .25 doc all same parameters except in delrin and the collet almost always falls out.

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    The same mechanism that releases the retention balls pushes the tool down.

    Just me.

  16. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by machineit2 View Post
    The same mechanism that releases the retention balls pushes the tool down.

    Just me.
    Yes, but the order is tool pushed down, balls release due to change of geometry in the spindle bore.

    My engineer buddy did respond (post #19), when I've had time to edit and collect his three emails into one post I'll put them here - should be later today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I'm firmly on this side of the ground.

    The other side of the ground is cold and dark...
    "Find the cost of freedom..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    "Find the cost of freedom..."

    Freedom is never free.

    Nor painless. Something we should carefully remember.

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  20. #36
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    True freedom means never having to say "I'm sorry I left the toilet seat up".

    Until one experiences that, one is never free...


    [Or one never lifts it, which is the smart choice]

  21. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    [Or one never lifts it, which is the smart choice]
    Hmm. Dribble on the toilet seat and see how long you live ... putting it back down is the safer alternative, ime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    "Find the cost of freedom..."
    Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose...
    Last edited by plastikdreams; 07-25-2021 at 05:54 AM.

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  24. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastikdreams View Post
    Freedoms just another word for nothing else to lose...
    Nothing left to lose.........

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  26. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Nothing left to lose.........
    Oops I fat fingered and got autocorrected.


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