DT-1 - How much heat can they take?

Thinking about picking up a DT-1 for some second op work and am wondering how heat sensitive they are. Our shop has been hitting 100 degrees lately (we run with the doors open to get the mist out). Our Okumas and Fanuc machines do fine if you keep the filters clean, just just don't have any Haas experience.

my old shop would get about 100 deg every summer ,,, the VF mills ran fine .. I think the DT/DM mills have the same electronics

Any reason you wouldn't consider a Brother Speedio S500? Rock solid reliable and a pleasure to run. Better tapping, quicker cycle times, better chip handling for probably not much more. Great support relatively close. Depending upon your quantities the R450 Brother is a serious money maker and a great option too.

BROTHERFRANK said:

Any reason you wouldn't consider a Brother Speedio S500? Rock solid reliable and a pleasure to run. Better tapping, quicker cycle times, better chip handling for probably not much more. Great support relatively close. Depending upon your quantities the R450 Brother is a serious money maker and a great option too.

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Please go back to your own forum and stop posting sales pitches here. This is a Haas forum Brother!!!!!!!!

machineit2 said:

Please go back to your own forum and stop posting sales pitches here. This is a Haas forum Brother!!!!!!!!

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I welcome any and all machine reps that actually participate in the forums. Maybe one day Haas will step up their game and compete head to head with Brother, Mori, Okuma, etc. How will we know that is happening unless we can openly talk about the pros and cons of all these machines?

I'm very interested in hearing why people are still buying Haas machines. All information is good information.

I`m in the same boat as Machineit2 ... Brothers has there place but its not for everyone and well i am "NOT" a huge Haas fan there is a place for there machines..

If botherfrank want to come onto the Haas foram and make the statement ( for probably not much more ) I`m game to see his numbers ????/

I`m looking at a VF2SS with probing ( tool and Part) and Auger .. comes to $64,013

Please price out a Brothers R700 with probing and chip handling ... Thanks

I posted on a 'Recent Thread' on the Practical Machinist home page. I did not go to the Haas forum. I don't even know what that is. I get nothing from this but my own satisfaction that I am helping people out. I have helped many shops plug into this excellent technology and the reason I post here is I enjoy helping people and making sure they get the right information. I can say many of the shops I work with are former or current users of Haas machines (I am in SoCal!). Once they try out the Brother machines the difference is very obvious. They run like a Swiss watch. I have a client that has VF2SS and DT2 and then he tried out a Brother R650. Now he has 2 R650 16k and 2 S700 with 27k spindles and rotaries. Knocked cycle times in half on some of his work. The Haas machines are popular but if you have work that fits in your hand (or a shoe box or pizza box I say) the brothers can do an amazing job for you no matter what material you are running. I will let the numerous users on Practical Machinist testify to that. Have you ever done a cycle time comparison for your parts and see what the brother would do for you? Typically my clients see about 20 to 30% cycle time reduction from a VF2SS to a Speedio S700. Throw in the pallet changer of a R450 and you can double or triple your daily throughput. You get to enjoy that extra output for many years not just the few months that the up front cost difference makes. Factor in better tool life which the super high quality spindles and other hardware improves and factor in the super high reliability which seems to be pretty hit or miss with the haas (a lot of miss from what I see/hear).... Also the rotaries offered with the brothers are much more solid and accurate. I am sure Andy can help you with a time study or test cut and then get you your best pricing possible. Not trying to step on any toes, just trying to be helpful. Sincerely, Frank.

I know that a Haas DT will be a step down in rigidity from my Okuma 560s but I need a small second op machine for some small aluminum parts that we run. One of my guys has a lot of Haas experience so I figure we can hit the ground running. A friend of mine has the Haas so it is local and I know the machine, plus it will not involve having to go to the bank and filling out a lot of paperwork. Thanks for the input.

D.D.Machine said:

I`m looking at a VF2SS with probing ( tool and Part) and Auger .. comes to $64,013

Please price out a Brothers R700 with probing and chip handling ... Thanks

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You must to include output and reliability to your initial cost. Probably you will be surprised with the cost of Haas.

Brother machines have there place but there not for everyone or for every part.

For a lot of shops out there a DT or DM machine I feel would be a better choice.

38 years ago when I started in the machinist field about every guy in the cnc shops could run a Fanuc and today its were about everyone can run Haas controls. As a long time shop owner I have found Employees are a hell of a lot harder to find than machines.

As for Haas reliability I have been VARY happy with there older Pre next-gen machines. I run a 2014 vf4ss hard every day and have replaced 3 or 4 light and its been the same with a 2015 vf2ss,,, Even had great service from a vary used up 2000 SL10 I got super cheap... out of the 3 of them I have a combined 10+ years of service and have not had a single service call on them.

The Next-gen machine I had was a full on POS. but from the sounds of it Haas has got most of the bugs worked out of them.

One thing I really like about Haas they well post there prices of not only machines but even there parts for everyone to see...

Matt@RFR said:

Maybe one day Haas will step up their game and compete head to head with Brother, Mori, Okuma, etc.

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Right now they're focused doing the clown around the world in F1. I doubt that day will came soon...

Labor is one of if not the most costly parts of manufacturing. This machine can help you get the most from your labor/talent and the operators really like them too. The R450 is $84k and change list price and is a real game changer.

R450 cutting:
Brother Speedio R45X1 - YouTube

Quick Table operation:
QT Simultaneous Operation - YouTube

tool check at 16k:
Brother Speedio R65 / Blum Z-Nano broken tool detection - YouTube

Haas guys learn the control in a few hours. Program is practically identical.

Back to topic

I have had issues with my older machines and heat...at least I believe it is heat. Real hot days everyone's A/C's are cranking and we get rolling brown outs, power company cuts back on voltage.

Usually what I start to see are Alarms outside the norm and hiccups when the heat is up. Seems like after a spell of heat I have a flurry of board, motor and amp problems. First few years I wasn't really sure...but then it became a pattern.

Anyway, whatever the reason we turned back the clock, we get in early and leave early before the heat takes hold in mid afternoon. Seems like building temp really climbs somewhere after 3pm, for that reason we'll close 2:30-3. Let machines cool off a bit and head home.

My understanding is anything above 85 degrees starts to take a toll on electronics...maybe some deal a little better then others....but between the machine developing issues and the guys dealing with the heat...I call it quits if shop hits 95.

New machines I have not seen any issues with...new as in 2012- 2017's

Mickey_D said:

Thinking about picking up a DT-1 for some second op work and am wondering how heat sensitive they are. Our shop has been hitting 100 degrees lately (we run with the doors open to get the mist out). Our Okumas and Fanuc machines do fine if you keep the filters clean, just just don't have any Haas experience.

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Are you aware of the "CoolCab" option. It's an air conditioning unit that sits on the back door of the electronics cabinet. We get triple digit heat all summer, but the electronics stay cool.

We have a 2014 DT1, 2014 VF2SS, & a 2014 VF4SS. There has been zero issues due to heat and they have been pretty reliable. We typically see a month or so of 90+degree heat and it hasn't been an issue. The only service call was due to the vf4SS rpms jogging +/- 100rpm's. This was under warranty to have fixed. Other than that they have been reliable. I probably won't buy another Haas but they do have their place. The controls are everywhere and are very user friendly.

BROTHERFRANK said:

Better tapping, quicker cycle times, better chip handling for probably not much more.

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This sounds like a straight sales pitch to me. Do you have any data to back these claims up? We have a DT-1. I am curious about the claimed faster cycle times given the Haas has faster rapids according to the specs. I'm happy to provide a program or two for a head to head comparison if you'd like.

Brother has been building Compact Machining Centers for 33 years. They were the first to use BT30, the first to tap solid with Synchronized Tapping in '85 and they basically created this category of machining center. They created these machines for the best reason, to make their own products (sewing machines, printers...) and they did it right. After using them with great success they then offered them to other manufacturers. They continue to push the envelope and capabilities with many models and options available all with BT30 or BBT30 only. Over 150,000 installed worldwide. One of the major differences of the Brother is the remarkable Accel/Decel rate of all axes and the spindle. This radically quickens cycle times. Other builders will make their rapids look faster on the brochure but when the rubber meets the road the Brother will be quicker.I will be happy to run your program(s) for you for your comparison. I will PM you my contact info. I only post here to be helpful, to help people get the best information about what's available to them no strings attached and to assist when current users have questions.

Cool sales pitch.

Anyway, AGAIN BACK ON TOPIC, myself I see more issues with the inside of the enclosure heating up from coolant mist than I do from ambient temperatures. During long cycle times the inside can easy heat up 30+ degrees warmer, maybe more. Naturally a mist sucker will take care of it, but that's a bit of extra cash.

BROTHERFRANK said:

Brother has been building Compact Machining Centers for 33 years. They were the first to use BT30, the first to tap solid with Synchronized Tapping in '85 and they basically created this category of machining center. They created these machines for the best reason, to make their own products (sewing machines, printers...) and they did it right. After using them with great success they then offered them to other manufacturers. They continue to push the envelope and capabilities with many models and options available all with BT30 or BBT30 only. Over 150,000 installed worldwide. One of the major differences of the Brother is the remarkable Accel/Decel rate of all axes and the spindle. This radically quickens cycle times. Other builders will make their rapids look faster on the brochure but when the rubber meets the road the Brother will be quicker.I will be happy to run your program(s) for you for your comparison. I will PM you my contact info. I only post here to be helpful, to help people get the best information about what's available to them no strings attached and to assist when current users have questions.

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I think brother like a lot of other higher end machine builders have success when shops need more or are out of capacity....op just states looking for a machine for some 2nd op parts kinda hard to justify if its just going to be a 2nd op machine. especially if short cycle times just punching holes or slots. boils down for most job shops the old haas' get the job done when guys outgrow or want more that's when shops start looking at other options. most of the brothers I see in the area are high volume, automated, multi shift applications.

Dear Brother
I don't get why the brothers seem to think practical machinist is there online sales ad... when ever someone pops up looking for a new machine one of the brothers jump in and start pimping there machines .. There the only dealers I see doing it all the time on here … If they want a place to pimp there machines they need to step up and pay for a forum just for there products.

This thread is a perfect example of someone asking about a Haas machine in the "HAAS" forum and getting one of the brothers pushing there product ,,,