Erratic tool insertion into spindle

Guys

Does any of you have any issues when putting tools into the spindle on new ( as in less than 1 year ) machines?
In my case, the spindle want to to a double hit when sucking the tool into the spindle.
Not a problem for the toolchanger ( I have a carousel ), but it wants to literally shoot the tool out of my hand most of the time.
And that's just it, not all the time, just most often.

Not only that, but sometimes it knocks my hand down and then immediately sucks the tool back, which is now too far from
actually grabbing the pullstud, so it just locks it into the taper and the holder is now sticking down about 3/4" out of the spindle.
It is locked, no way to yank it out unless you activate the release button again.

If that makes any difference, the machine has TSC, 'bout 3 months old and it was doing it from the word go.
I've checked a new machine on the HFO's floor, and it also did the very same thing, albeit with a slightly less force.

Anyone seen anything like it?

SeymourDumore said:

Guys

Anyone seen anything like it?

Click to expand...

Hello SeymourDumore,
It may be totally unrelated to your situation, but air blast that is to clean the spindle would be my thought.

Depending on where the Manual Tool Release/Clamp button is, I've often experienced the phenomenon you're describing. A machine I was called to work on yesterday, had the Release Button on the pendant control panel that was a stretch to get to when holding a tool in the spindle. When trying to load the tool, holding the tool hard up in the spindle quickly resisted the escape of the air to the extent that the tool was difficult to hold in position. If I didn't move quickly to press the button to clamp the tool, the air pressure was sufficient to push the tool and my hand away from the spindle.

Regards,

Bill

Sounds like the air pressure may be set too high. On the older machines there used to be a second regulator for the spindle air purge.

air blast is too high. Reduce air pressure, but in small increments. Too much air blast is better than not enough. Also you can have ejection issues which is much worse of a problem if you reduce air pressure too much.

SeymourDumore said:

In my case, the spindle want to to a double hit when sucking the tool into the spindle.

Click to expand...

As the other posters responded, it sounds like the other issue could be the purge air working against you, but from the above do you mean the tool "bounces" when it's pulled in?

Mine does this time to time and they say it is "normal".

thesidetalker said:

Mine does this time to time and they say it is "normal".

Click to expand...

lol the "normal for HAAS" means we build this and there is a problem somewhere there but we have no idea why so if it works most of the time it is normal

Is this with a pull stud with through hole, and no hole for the air to escape from the tool holder?
Used to have the 3D-taster in a weldon chuck. switched to ER and the bouncing stopped.

thesidetalker said:

t from the above do you mean the tool "bounces" when it's pulled in?

Mine does this time to time and they say it is "normal".

Click to expand...

Yupp, that is the exact word I'd use do describe what's happeneing.

And this:

dallack said:

Is this with a pull stud with through hole, and no hole for the air to escape from the tool holder?
Used to have the 3D-taster in a weldon chuck. switched to ER and the bouncing stopped.

Click to expand...

is the exact cause!!!

Just verified it, and my sporadic bounce issue is due to the fact that some of my pullstuds are through-hole, some are not.

Just for info, I did try to adjust the air pressure down to the low limit of the allowance ( just above 80 psi ), and the problem remained.
Then set the pressure up to 125 ( just above the recommendation ), and tested different holders.
Just as Dallack said, the problem is trapped air between the holder and the spindle taper.
Holders with through-coolant studs are smooth as silk, solids are bouncing like jumpin' jack!

This is kinda messed up, as I prefer to have dedicated holders only with through-studs, all others I'd like to keep with solids.
I am not too keen on having coolant climbing up through the holder on the other machines and soiling the guts of the spindle.

May call Haas and see if there is a way for relieving the head pressure.
Not sure how the whole thing is set up, don't know if it has a double acting 2 way solenoid that's too slow on the return, or if they use
two separate solenoids for the air purge and the clamping.

SeymourDumore said:

Yupp, that is the exact word I'd use do describe what's happeneing.

And this:



is the exact cause!!!

Just verified it, and my sporadic bounce issue is due to the fact that some of my pullstuds are through-hole, some are not.

Just for info, I did try to adjust the air pressure down to the low limit of the allowance ( just above 80 psi ), and the problem remained.
Then set the pressure up to 125 ( just above the recommendation ), and tested different holders.
Just as Dallack said, the problem is trapped air between the holder and the spindle taper.
Holders with through-coolant studs are smooth as silk, solids are bouncing like jumpin' jack!

This is kinda messed up, as I prefer to have dedicated holders only with through-studs, all others I'd like to keep with solids.
I am not too keen on having coolant climbing up through the holder on the other machines and soiling the guts of the spindle.

May call Haas and see if there is a way for relieving the head pressure.
Not sure how the whole thing is set up, don't know if it has a double acting 2 way solenoid that's too slow on the return, or if they use
two separate solenoids for the air purge and the clamping.

Click to expand...

Wow this is too funny. This is exactly the same issue with my VF2. I read this last night, and just tried this morning. One tool with solid stud, which bounced, then one tool with cool-thru stud... perfect. I did notice a LOT of air blasted thru the collet. Never noticed before.. Weird.

Like a year and a half ago, I was trying to figure this out, trying all sorts of different holders and studs. I have mostly the same brand studs (solid and cool-thru) but a few odd balls here and there. Tried all of them (sans cool-thru or maybe I didn't notice) with same bounce result.

Was puzzled since occasionally I'd get a tool here and there loading perfectly smooth. Never noticed that it was the cool-thru studs! haha geez.

In my case I think the bounce is less intense if the tool is loaded quicker. If you hold that tool release button all day and load the tool like a snail, the bounce is far worse.

Seymour, if you do hear from Haas on this please update this thread. Would be interested to hear what they say (if different than "normal" ???) Sorry, tool bouncing around in/out of the taper is not normal.

Sucks, because like you, I try to keep solid studs on everything and just cool-thru studs on holder/tool combos that need it. And a few collet holders for using TSC drills. Rather not get gunk or fine chips air blasted up through the holder if one of the guys is blowing off a tool in the spindle or something.