Everything tests good, what now? 123 Spindle Drive Fault 993 Amplifier Short Circuit

Stirling · Oct 5, 2020

Purchased a 2008 vf2-D this weekend with known issues. 123 Spindle Drive Fault, 993 Amplifier Short Circuit.
Owner had been quoted (sight unseen) a vector drive, regen unit, 30 amp and 45 amp servo drives.
machine has 200 hours on it, and hardly a scratch in the chip auger to prove it ("R and D" at a university)

I've taken a day and tested everything I can that Haas has listed throughout their literature and videos and have come up with no faults. I am not opposed to a tech coming or buying new parts, but I live 5 hours from a tech so service calls are very expensive! (10 hours driving and an overnight/meals charge) so multiple trips are not good.

is there any tips out there?

situation:
previous owner reported the problem started intermittently. he would turn it on and it would error, but in 30 min it would clear, then it would be an hour, then 2, then 5.. now it just stays alarmed

10,000 RPM spindle, has a wye/delta switching. looks good. wye engages on power up no indications of failure, haas lays out no tests beside eyes and nose for this.
no visual or smell indicators, cabinet looks absolutely new
with everything plugged in, it throws the errors 123 Spindle Drive Fault, 993 Amplifier Short Circuit.
if I disconnect the spindle motor leads the machine operates just fine but no spindle commands
this would lead me to the motor being at fault, but I have tested the motor and it passes all of the test haas lays out. cable passes too. I will have a friend with some fancy motor test gear run further tests this week
I have also done all the vector drive tests haas recommends. Regen tests good, servos all run fine with no errors (when motor is unplugged)
Im at a loss. is there something on the boards I can test? I have checked all connectors in cabinet and head, played around with unplugging different things to see if they flag errors (they did)

Thanks for any advice you may have

I have a little more time thank money, but we all know that time could be sales calls!! (whats the balance ? haha)

ducesrwld · Oct 7, 2020

tracking these intermittent alarms can be a real treat...i'm about to pull my drive out of my '97 vf0 for the third time and bring it down to the repair joint they can't get it to pop an alarm on their test stand so it turns into blindly throwing more new components on the drive and give it another whirl. i've had to hook up and pull the motor leads time and time again to finally get mine to trip doing a static test. if i were you i'd start trying to call up some of the repair joints see if they don't have some better guidance and worst case you send drive out for analysis. you can pound your head til your blue tracing everything. not a ton of help but doesn't hurt to reach out to places that repair these drives all the time. good luck.

Stirling · Oct 7, 2020

ducesrwld said:
tracking these intermittent alarms can be a real treat...i'm about to pull my drive out of my '97 vf0 for the third time and bring it down to the repair joint they can't get it to pop an alarm on their test stand so it turns into blindly throwing more new components on the drive and give it another whirl. i've had to hook up and pull the motor leads time and time again to finally get mine to trip doing a static test. if i were you i'd start trying to call up some of the repair joints see if they don't have some better guidance and worst case you send drive out for analysis. you can pound your head til your blue tracing everything. not a ton of help but doesn't hurt to reach out to places that repair these drives all the time. good luck.

lots of fun..

I am curious, what is a "static test" I am unifiliar with that one.
its a bit of a pain living in northern Canada, everything is a very long ways way. my bet is across the country in Ontario or Quebec is the closes electronics repair familiar with Haas, or the USA. Ill take any recommendations of who to call or send to. Ideally someone would help troubleshoot over the phone to help out

I have a friend from the old shop I work at coming with a bunch of high end specialized electric motor testing equipment today, so at least I can definitively rule out the motor and leads. Oh boy if it could just be the leads!
(that power chain sure gets stuffed full and is constantly moving. not a big fan).
I guess there is no reason i cannot hook up a different electric motor with a wye connection (coolant pump?) off to the side and turn it on. that would eliminate the leads and motor...

if the motor/leads come out fine it has to be the drive, maincon or moncon. i gont a tm-1 sitting beside it, so i can swap the lower board to rule that out, but i believe the top board set is one generation apart. id have to pull'em and check.

Does anyone know what board in the top triple stack holds the machine parameters to tell its its a vf2? i could possibly leave that one in and swap a different "dumb" control board to test it out.

Oh the redneck repair fun, hahaha

countryguy · Oct 7, 2020

K... A lot to unpack here. But I get it! Home garage Haas band here too. a 98VF4 which we've done all service on and had some doozies too.

Here is the device we bought for testing insulation and motor leads
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C2SSH51/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

How are you powering the unit? in a shop w/ 3 phase? or RPC? and what's the line voltage ?

On the rear of the unit, there are incoming transformer taps (a range usually) - Are you matched for power on the tap to the range?

the MoCon board is the one that you would need to swap (but you know that already).. The CPU board is where the Battery and RAM hold all the config data. Not sure if a TM1 MoCon would work. another thread to pull there? if that would work all the better for your diags adventure!

From some google searches.. Many just note to 'send in the Vector drive or swap it... on this type of symptom. But that is never conclusive!

We sent our Vector out $1200... they replaced about $4 in a Zener diode and small capacitor. Returned it ,and it just went pop after a week. In the end I did my own rebuilt. the IGBT's, the caps, the regen IGBT, and power rectifiers. All for a I think $175? My detailed post is here somewhere for the older Vector drives. Not sure which you have there.. but you can do the basics pretty cheap before you dump over a grand. IMO anyway. Not a fan of the post OEM service industry..

Have you searched the archives here... there is soooo much info- I have used it for some time now!

ducesrwld · Oct 7, 2020

what i mean by static is what you've already done which is remove the motor leads from the drive so when you run a program the spindle isn't running. and if you are lucky enough to get the error to kick while doing this it should elminate the cable or motor from the variables. just from my logic i've got mine narrowed down to lowest priority failure components on the drive that repair outfit is having a hard time pin pointing without them being able to get an alarm to happen on their test stand. i'm no electric guru by any means but i stick with logic and start crossing off potential culprits from the list. a 123 alarm more often than not i'd say point to some issue with the drive itself.

Stirling · Oct 7, 2020

I use a phase perfect (20hp) to power it. the haas is a new install for me A brand new 2008, haha
ive has the phase perfect a few years running a lathe.

I think I have found the issue. it was a cold Canadian day and my door was open. it began erroring out even with the spindle disconnected. if cold = bad, heat is good right? (ya i know dont overheat stuff) so i tossed a smal ow power space heater against blowing on the vector drive with mild heat, 40 min later the mill was fine. spindle and all ran, but would trip over 700rpm

so i decided it was time to take apart the vector drive. this thig is so low hours even the cooling fins look clean and new! but there is some obviously poorly solder joints as seen in the photo. tomorrow I will be soldering them up and giving it a test run.

(pardon my electronics smarts) the area with the white block things clearly go hot. the plastic standoff/clip was discolored and crumbled when I bumped it. and the large solder parches have some discoloration.
do you think this is cause of concern? even if it works after fixing the solder tomorrow, perhaps i should replace these components?

Ziggy2 · Oct 7, 2020

Stirling said:
Purchased a 2008 vf2-D this weekend with known issues. 123 Spindle Drive Fault, 993 Amplifier Short Circuit.
Owner had been quoted (sight unseen) a vector drive, regen unit, 30 amp and 45 amp servo drives.
machine has 200 hours on it, and hardly a scratch in the chip auger to prove it ("R and D" at a university)

I've taken a day and tested everything I can that Haas has listed throughout their literature and videos and have come up with no faults. I am not opposed to a tech coming or buying new parts, but I live 5 hours from a tech so service calls are very expensive! (10 hours driving and an overnight/meals charge) so multiple trips are not good.

is there any tips out there?

situation:
previous owner reported the problem started intermittently. he would turn it on and it would error, but in 30 min it would clear, then it would be an hour, then 2, then 5.. now it just stays alarmed

10,000 RPM spindle, has a wye/delta switching. looks good. wye engages on power up no indications of failure, haas lays out no tests beside eyes and nose for this.
no visual or smell indicators, cabinet looks absolutely new
with everything plugged in, it throws the errors 123 Spindle Drive Fault, 993 Amplifier Short Circuit.
if I disconnect the spindle motor leads the machine operates just fine but no spindle commands
this would lead me to the motor being at fault, but I have tested the motor and it passes all of the test haas lays out. cable passes too. I will have a friend with some fancy motor test gear run further tests this week
I have also done all the vector drive tests haas recommends. Regen tests good, servos all run fine with no errors (when motor is unplugged)
Im at a loss. is there something on the boards I can test? I have checked all connectors in cabinet and head, played around with unplugging different things to see if they flag errors (they did)

Thanks for any advice you may have
I have a little more time thank money, but we all know that time could be sales calls!! (whats the balance ? haha)

I had a VF8 that did this years ago. Turned out to be a metal chip in one of the spindle motor wire leads in the flex track.

I started by checking the motor which was fine, then checked the VFD. Called Haas out and they replaced the VFD. Still had the problem after 40hrs of service repair.

I finally got frustrated and pulled the wiring harnes out of the flex track and started inspecting it and found the metal chip shorting to ground intermittently.

Search

Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web

Search

Everything tests good, what now? 123 Spindle Drive Fault 993 Amplifier Short Circuit

Stirling

Hot Rolled

ducesrwld

Cast Iron

Stirling

Hot Rolled

countryguy

Hot Rolled

ducesrwld

Cast Iron

Stirling

Hot Rolled

Attachments

Ziggy2

Stainless

Similar threads