Fitting a VF-2 in a Garage
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    Default Fitting a VF-2 in a Garage

    Hey guys, I've spoken with my local Selway and Haas Applications about stuffing a VF through my 84" garage door and the answer looks like a 'MAYBE'. Applications had some info but referred me to Selway. Selway has been very helpful and is going to take a detailed look at a machine they have on their floor on Monday. I wanted to ask if anyone here knows if you can fit a VF-2 through an 84" door WITHOUT notching the header (I would if I could, but that needs to be considered a no-go for now).

    I found one thread on here where a guy looks to have gotten a VF-2 into his garage with an 81" opening. The rigger I am looking to use said he needs ~2" clearance for the skates he would use for this move, and I'm thinking that we can get that height by pulling the spindle sheet metal, energy chain and parts on top of the machine. The Applications guy and Selway both are thinking we might need to power up the machine after delivery, remove the spindle block and drop it all the way (should gain roughly 2" they think). I would really prefer to not do that if we can, at that point we're talking about wiring the phase converter and hooking up the control just to jog it down.


    Can I yank some sheet metal and meet those dimensions? Has anyone here done this? Again I'd like to emphasize I have 84" fixed height to get through and will not be changing that dimension. Once the machine is in everything is fine.

    Thanks!

    Marcus

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    Assuming this is a 2018 model? If used, you need to state the age. Who knows how different each model year might be. I know when I bought mine (2007), I got 2 or 3 different drawings from Haas. None of which agreed, and none of which matched the machine when it showed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Assuming this is a 2018 model? If used, you need to state the age. Who knows how different each model year might be. I know when I bought mine (2007), I got 2 or 3 different drawings from Haas. None of which agreed, and none of which matched the machine when it showed up.
    Sorry I should have clarified, yes it will be a new machine (2018)

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    Tim Paul with Auto Desk just put one in his garage. Removed the tool changer for clearance.

    Contact him for any tips he might have.

    Tim Paul on Instagram: “#vitory for the #persistent tonight!!!! 🎉🎉🎉 If the wheels were 1/8” taller or the lift lifted 1” shorter it woulda been another failure.…”

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayton View Post
    Tim Paul with Auto Desk just put one in his garage. Removed the tool changer for clearance.

    Contact him for any tips he might have.

    Tim Paul on Instagram: “#vitory for the #persistent tonight!!!! 🎉🎉🎉 If the wheels were 1/8” taller or the lift lifted 1” shorter it woulda been another failure.…”
    I talked with Tim a few weeks ago before I was considering a VF (before Haas started their sale haha), I'll hit him up but he has an older generation and I want to make SURE the current generation fits.

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    So not much info on getting a VF-1/2 through a 84” door height?

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    We used to take off all the electrics, spindle motor, and conduits ..
    and that might get you to your limit +/-.

    Make a slot in your door.
    Diamond saw, rented, 1 hr.

    It is NOT hard and not expensive to increase the roof clearance a bit- if you must.
    Typically about 8-10" == 200-250 mm is easy and cheap(ish) for a slot.

    Get some form of variance/permit/pass to do so. These are often available for any nr of silly reasons, like old statues, musical instruments, whatever.
    Recommend not doing the cutting mods without some paperwork legal cover. Very much.

    Likewise it is easy and cheap to cut your concrete garage floor up and drop it 5-10-15".
    Recommend very much not to do it without a guy who can sign off, a neighbours structural engineer etc.
    Really.
    Really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    We used to take off all the electrics, spindle motor, and conduits ..
    and that might get you to your limit +/-.

    Make a slot in your door.
    Diamond saw, rented, 1 hr.

    It is NOT hard and not expensive to increase the roof clearance a bit- if you must.
    Typically about 8-10" == 200-250 mm is easy and cheap(ish) for a slot.

    Get some form of variance/permit/pass to do so. These are often available for any nr of silly reasons, like old statues, musical instruments, whatever.
    Recommend not doing the cutting mods without some paperwork legal cover. Very much.

    Likewise it is easy and cheap to cut your concrete garage floor up and drop it 5-10-15".
    Recommend very much not to do it without a guy who can sign off, a neighbours structural engineer etc.
    Really.
    Really.
    If it was an option to make a modification to the building I’d have no issue doing it. There is no physical barrier to me doing so, but there is a contractual reason I may not do so. Having the mill working in there is no problem, but I cannot modify the building to do so. Electrical yes, building no. I need to get it in the hard way. If it is impossible or extremely difficult I will be going with a MiniMill 2, but with the sale going on right now I’d rather pay another $120/mo and get a VF-2!

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    Ditching the skates and using 3/8" round stock to roll it on would be a cheap way of gaining 1-5/8" of clearance, just a thought. I would rather power up a machine in my driveway than take it apart. The biggest hurdle is a long enough piece of wire. This is something I have done before, used mill arrived before the shop was finished and I wanted to make sure it was working properly before my inspection period ended. No info on a Hass but plenty of experience getting machines through confined openings.

    Can you gain any height jacking the header up for the move? Big headers are pretty flexible, especially if there is no sheetrock, and it's not your building . You may be able to gain an inch or two, or more if you really have to. That and ditching the skates may be worth it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    Ditching the skates and using 3/8" round stock to roll it on would be a cheap way of gaining 1-5/8" of clearance, just a thought. I would rather power up a machine in my driveway than take it apart. The biggest hurdle is a long enough piece of wire. This is something I have done before, used mill arrived before the shop was finished and I wanted to make sure it was working properly before my inspection period ended. No info on a Hass but plenty of experience getting machines through confined openings.

    Can you gain any height jacking the header up for the move? Big headers are pretty flexible, especially if there is no sheetrock, and it's not your building . You may be able to gain an inch or two, or more if you really have to. That and ditching the skates may be worth it?
    I discussed using rod instead of skates with the rigger but they said these machines don't do too well with that setup, maybe having the 6 leveling feet being a big contributor. Yes it does work but it adds a lot of time as you're constantly changing rods. That might be the ticket and in reality might not be all that much work. I am also considering using a steel plate on the ground, spiking a 4x4 with the forklift and using the pushing the machine in by the casting. At that point though, getting it back OUT might be interesting.

    I'm not jacking the header up. Not touching the building.


    This is the only info I have been able to find on doing this, and it wasn't all that descriptive, but it sounds like they had an 81" door??

    VF2-SS in garage?

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    If the peak of the roof runs front to back then your load bearing walls are the sides and you can just cut out over the top of your door... there is 12" to 18" between the your door trim and the bottom of the trusses . I had to do that to fit a vf4ss under a 8' door .. just pulled the door up and clamped the rail and pulled out the sawsall and cut like a 4' long by 12" tall area out of the door header.. it was non load bearing in that all the roof if supported by the trusses and sidewalls.

    Just do a nice job cutting and you can screw it back in place and repaint.

    I just got a new vf2ss and they have fixed the control and its even faster than the 3 year old Vf2ss with the original control .. Also the new 31 tool super fast tool carousel is nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    If the peak of the roof runs front to back then your load bearing walls are the sides and you can just cut out over the top of your door... there is 12" to 18" between the your door trim and the bottom of the trusses . I had to do that to fit a vf4ss under a 8' door .. just pulled the door up and clamped the rail and pulled out the sawsall and cut like a 4' long by 12" tall area out of the door header.. it was non load bearing in that all the roof if supported by the trusses and sidewalls.

    Just do a nice job cutting and you can screw it back in place and repaint.

    I just got a new vf2ss and they have fixed the control and its even faster than the 3 year old Vf2ss with the original control .. Also the new 31 tool super fast tool carousel is nice.
    That's great to hear your opinion on the new control, I remember many threads you mentioned how upset you were with it when it came out. I'm looking forward to a machine, I've been shopping around but Haas keeps coming out on top for my budget and needs/wants.

    Again I CANNOT make any modifications to the building. I would do it if I could, it is a contractual issue. I'd have no problem doing the modification if I owned it. If I can't fit the machine I'll be looking at a MiniMill 2 instead.

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    I have been running the new next gen for about 2 weeks and have only found one thing wrong to this point and its not been a big deal ,,, on startup it has twice powered up the red lights on the probe but has not powered up the control ,, I just push power off and drop the contacts out then re power up . I well get the HFO to look into it but the control has been doing just what it should and well a few things have been changed between the old control and this next gen its been a simple swap to go between them ... I run both controls side by side and the main change as to the interface is in the probing stuff and after using the new control I like the probing better in it than the old control ..

    After the crap I went thru with the first nex gen control I got a couple years ago I never thought I would think about getting a second one but Haas seems to have the new control up to the old standards that I really like ... I have been running a lot of 4th axis parts on the new one and its eating all the programs with zero editing from the old control .

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    I well drop the head and get you a clearance height in the morning to the top of the tool carousel. I think above the carousel is only sheet metal and the wire track and there simple to pull down and out of the way. It you pull the leveling screws up you could just slide the machine in on a sheet of like 18 Gage sheet metal. any forklift that would pick it would skid it ..

    FYI
    with the new 30 tool carousel the height changed from the old 24 tool ... but i don`t think by much

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    I well drop the head and get you a clearance height in the morning to the top of the tool carousel. I think above the carousel is only sheet metal and the wire track and there simple to pull down and out of the way. It you pull the leveling screws up you could just slide the machine in on a sheet of like 18 Gage sheet metal. any forklift that would pick it would skid it ..

    FYI
    with the new 30 tool carousel the height changed from the old 24 tool ... but i don`t think by much
    Thanks man! You could ignore the tool changer when checking, it will be the umbrella style so the tool changer will not need to be modified. I'm thinking if the spindle sheet metal, energy chain, and maybe Z-axis motor are removed, that might get it through. It sure seems like there's a few sheet metal components on the top of the machine that might need to be removed (if they can be removed?)

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    Here are pics of my delivery on VF-2SSYT 2017 model. The YT is about 7 inches wider than standard machine machine. In my case with 24Tside mount tool changer was actually about the same height as the spindle head so it wouldn't have really changed anything on the required height even if I went with the umbrella. That rectangular box on the sidemount tool changer was easily removed and cut the height down. I actually did the cut out and made it so it can be put in and out fairly easily. I cut it out with the intention of the machine going straight in, but the riggers put it in sideways because it was oriented like that on the truck. Without cutting the top it would have been very nerve racking if possible at all. They maybe would have had other methods to slide it in some how on something, but the piece of mind and extra clearance was worth it. 99 inches was actually more than needed, but it was the most convenient height to cut and make it look reasonable. You can see I actually cut it shorter first and decided to extended it (ouch).

    Edit: I know you didn't want to notch above the door but I thought I'd share anyways. The minimum I had to remove some molding which was not intrusive to get a height of 86in. To get the machine in without the notch would have required some way to slide the machine on some metal plates right on the ground or something.
    vf2-sssyt-squeeze.jpgimg_20170220_114819410_hdr.jpggarage-door-diemsions-vf2ssyt-delivery.jpg
    Last edited by Lazyman; 11-05-2018 at 09:38 AM.

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    Yeah it seems the machine is RIGHT at the limit. My local Selway checked and it looks like base of casting to top of spindle, with the spindle having been powered up and lowered all the way down (below the shipping position) is at 84.5". Looks like spindle cover and the white power box on top of the machine will need to come off but that main power box looks like it's all hard wired. Might be a lot of work and hassle I'm not sure I want to work with.

    In comparison I'm looking at the MiniMill 2, it's nowhere near as much machine but it's 20 tools and the same work envelope as a VF-1 (not Z axis) and that thing will just come through the door and hook up to my single-phase power and be done. I did really want to be able to poke long tubes through the side of the machine and there's a possibility I might cut windows into the side of the Mini if I go that route.

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    You can probably ditch the skates at the door if you need to.
    Slap a 2 mm sheet of steel on the floor, lubricate with something, slap another 2-3 mm sheet on top.
    Temporarily rest machine on the top sheet.

    The top sheet will slide with extremely low friction, with the machine on top.
    Fix anything you want to the top sheet, I would weld something onto it for pulling.
    Pull top sheet and machine more or less equally.

    You could almost push the sheet+machine, and might be able to use dishwashing soap or similar water soluble non-toxic non marking.
    You only need about 3 m, and maybe 1 m of critical movement on the high part of the machine, as I recall.

    Ex-skates, you might get 3-5" extra height.

    A caution occurs.
    Steel sheet on steel sheet, 2x3 m, oil/water/soap may act as a hydrostatic bearing.
    If there is any grade/tilt it is perfectly possible the whole thing starts to float downhill whatever that is.
    Keep some form of tie on it and a secondary loose tie in 2 directions.

    --
    Options:
    Further to my previous post re: mods at end.

    It usually does not matter what contractual limits you have re:mods.
    Just ask, politely, explaining, and have a contractor with you stating/supporting the reality.

    If you cut off a bit of concrete slab at bottom, and later put it in with concrete, it will have the same strength and will be invisible.

    Better yet, cut it off as a piece and put in tapered pins, to locate / anchor it as a part.
    Will allow you to take machine out later, and any future tenant to do same.
    Big win for owner.
    Increased height - more valuable building.
    Not a structural part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    You can probably ditch the skates at the door if you need to.
    Slap a 2 mm sheet of steel on the floor, lubricate with something, slap another 2-3 mm sheet on top.
    Temporarily rest machine on the top sheet.

    The top sheet will slide with extremely low friction, with the machine on top.
    Fix anything you want to the top sheet, I would weld something onto it for pulling.
    Pull top sheet and machine more or less equally.

    You could almost push the sheet+machine, and might be able to use dishwashing soap or similar water soluble non-toxic non marking.
    You only need about 3 m, and maybe 1 m of critical movement on the high part of the machine, as I recall.

    Ex-skates, you might get 3-5" extra height.

    A caution occurs.
    Steel sheet on steel sheet, 2x3 m, oil/water/soap may act as a hydrostatic bearing.
    If there is any grade/tilt it is perfectly possible the whole thing starts to float downhill whatever that is.
    Keep some form of tie on it and a secondary loose tie in 2 directions.

    --
    Options:
    Further to my previous post re: mods at end.

    It usually does not matter what contractual limits you have re:mods.
    Just ask, politely, explaining, and have a contractor with you stating/supporting the reality.

    If you cut off a bit of concrete slab at bottom, and later put it in with concrete, it will have the same strength and will be invisible.

    Better yet, cut it off as a piece and put in tapered pins, to locate / anchor it as a part.
    Will allow you to take machine out later, and any future tenant to do same.
    Big win for owner.
    Increased height - more valuable building.
    Not a structural part.
    I agree with your idea of using the steel sheet, that is looking like the only potential option. If dimensions work out that might be what we do, might be time intensive with the riggers but should only add a few hundred bucks. I do have a sloped driveway (about 7 degrees uphill to the shop), not a big issue but does make things a little rougher. Allow me to make you scratch your head more by saying I already worked out with the rigger how to do this all without driving the forklift on the driveway - we will be driving up the side of the building on road base and offloading just outside the entrance so the weight of both the machine and the forklift aren't on the pad. 4" driveway in Portland area, I have no idea if it has any voids and don't want 25,000lbs on it to find out!

    I am on very good terms with my landlord, who lives about 120 feet from the shop

    He has been very kind and understanding and let us move in while my business was only a few months old, with full understanding of running the business. I'm more organized and cleaner than when I started and take wise precautions to not have accidents. I'm not going to find out what he says about modifying the slab or header because I'm not going to ask - even if these technically are simple things, I'm just not going to do it, he's letting me put a CNC in here so it's going to be my job to figure out how haha.

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    The steel sheet takes no time at all.
    One guy can hand move and position 2mm galvanised 2x3 m sheets, easily, since I did it several times.

    You have reluctance to use the driveway pad.
    Your choice.
    But 23.000 lbs if correct == 10 metric tons.
    A small haas is 3-4 tons, only.
    Having delivered about 70.

    Quite correct a 4" concrete pad resting on nothing and not-reinforced, would likely get cracks under a very heavy forklift of 12000 lbs == 5000 kg or upto 6000 kg per your estimate.

    But if the driveway is not up to what your landlord paid for, he would rather know immediately.
    You personally have neither good nor bad in it, only good if he can get confirmation he was stiffed on the construction.

    The next tenant for the landlord could easily drag another tool in, and then start major legal proceedings if the ramp/pad is not up to scratch. The tool might be stranded, or damaged.

    A smart guy like you c/would get the rigger to ask the landlord for a permission or denial on a delivery doc (ie in writing).
    So it is not on you.

    Mostly, none of that is necessary.
    Landlord, and rigger/mover have compulsory insurance, and as You said You are on great terms.
    And if the slab cracks, you have another way to get the machine up. As You said.

    You, and the landlord are not out of pocket.
    You seem to be friendly, and will not sue the landlord for trivial problems that are not his fault- responsibility yes.
    And the landlord cannot deny your right to pull a rated-capacity load in anyway.
    Commercial stuff is usually 1200 kg/sq m, or more, or several metric tons 6++ over 2x3 m area.

    Stiffen Your spine.
    Go talk to the landlord.
    They are mostly nice guys intent on making everything right - and being accommodating.
    That´s how they make money from successful long term tenants vs short term chaos and lack of rents here and there.
    Really.
    Most landlords are pretty nice. Most millionaires and multi-millionaires likewise.
    They got rich by being nice so others would rather work with them than their competitors.

    If he disagrees or denies you stuff, he wont take it personally at all.
    95% of guys.



    Quote Originally Posted by DethloffMfg View Post
    I agree with your idea of using the steel sheet, that is looking like the only potential option. If dimensions work out that might be what we do, might be time intensive with the riggers but should only add a few hundred bucks. I do have a sloped driveway (about 7 degrees uphill to the shop), not a big issue but does make things a little rougher. Allow me to make you scratch your head more by saying I already worked out with the rigger how to do this all without driving the forklift on the driveway - we will be driving up the side of the building on road base and offloading just outside the entrance so the weight of both the machine and the forklift aren't on the pad. 4" driveway in Portland area, I have no idea if it has any voids and don't want 25,000lbs on it to find out!

    I am on very good terms with my landlord, who lives about 120 feet from the shop

    He has been very kind and understanding and let us move in while my business was only a few months old, with full understanding of running the business. I'm more organized and cleaner than when I started and take wise precautions to not have accidents. I'm not going to find out what he says about modifying the slab or header because I'm not going to ask - even if these technically are simple things, I'm just not going to do it, he's letting me put a CNC in here so it's going to be my job to figure out how haha.


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