Galvanized way covers on new Haas machines & waste disposal from install?
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  1. #1
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    Default Galvanized way covers on new Haas machines & waste disposal from install?

    Hello,

    We received a new Haas VF-2 and whatever was used for corrosion control was left behind by the installation staff, we have no idea what it is or how to dispose of it correctly so we sent it to Haas for disposal.
    We are also very disappointed that Haas chose to galvanize components in the work area in the machine, we spent years to determine our coolant, Blaser Cut CF(chlorine free), cannot be used around galvanized materials and upon further research other Blaser Cut users are also experiencing unusual levels of corrosion on these galvanized machines they just do not know what is causing it yet in my humble opinion, it is a slow degradation. Galvanized sheet metal has been around for a long time, not really sure why Haas is currently the only machine tool builder on the planet to use it in a machine tool cutting area?
    We think we have a plan to remove the galvanized plating and I am sure that is on us, not really sure how many pennies Haas saved using galvanized components, thanks!

    Have a great day!



    PS
    (this note(signed) was in the box with the pound of green goop we sent to MTS today, properly secured in a plastic bag.)

    Sorry. it is actually Blaser Cut 2000CF

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    you should give this feedback to Haas corporate. when I had my machine installed by HFO Torrance, they cleaned all the shipping goop out and took it (and all the other trash/recycling) with them. they might need to instruct all installers to do this is part of the installation process.

    re: galvanized covers, I'm sure that'd be good feedback to give to the corporate guys, too. it's probably not possible to design stuff that holds up to everything that everyone could possibly use for coolant, but knowing your use case may be useful for them making changes down the line

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    Yea, the note is in the box with the green goop, the setup guys were pretty good and cool, training was good, as you were saying probably just a training issue, here in California you can go to jail for putting things like that in the trash, at least do not put it on a Hsas box, not like they were not going to find us?

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    I did let the MTS sales rep know, first conversation "he said he never heard of that before, he would look into it" next conversation "Haas sells coolant that is not bothered by the galvanized covers", so I guess I will just drain my other 8 cnc machines we have been running Blaser Cut 2000CF for the past 20 years or so and buy who know what from Haas, talk about a WTF moment, I did not even comment, pretty sure he got the message, end of conversation!
    It takes a while for the galvanized to break down the coolant but we have machines we run with a lot of galvanized clamps, always showing signs of corrosion and ones we do not, no corrosion at all, nothing but stainless clamps now but it is taking a long while for the sumps to recover. it took 20 years to figure that out and now this debacle?

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    Well, the biggest bitch about the green goo is the removal of it, so if that wasn't done by the install guy, then it is on him.
    For disposal tho, into the waste oil with it.

    As for the way covers, what do you think they should use?

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    Oh what the heck are you being a bonehead because it allears to have a cross hatch pattern and you assume it is galvanized? You do know the anti rust coating is non toxic very basic stuff. Never ever seen a haas with galvanized way covers. Pictures need to be taken

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    galv-1.jpggalv-2.jpg

    Verified by Haas, the X and Y way covers and a bunch of other stuff in the production area is galvanized. It is just the common galvanized sheet, we used to use it a couple of decades ago, not really sure why Haas went with it. This is a brand new machine
    Last edited by landm1; 12-11-2020 at 09:59 PM.

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    I wonder if tariffs with China played a role in the use of galvanized metals on new Haas machines, perhaps coated metals or domestic availability allowed Haas to get a few thousand tones dumped on their lap for way under market value?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedie View Post
    Oh what the heck are you being a bonehead because it allears to have a cross hatch pattern and you assume it is galvanized? You do know the anti rust coating is non toxic very basic stuff. Never ever seen a haas with galvanized way covers. Pictures need to be taken
    Our new, delivered in November, VF-4 has galvanized way covers. I wanted to switch to a clear cutting fluid from Blaser, but the manufacturer said not to use it with the new Hass mills.

    The Hass tech cleaned off all the corrosion protection from both the ST-20 and VF-4.

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    My 1993 vintage VF 0 has plain steel covers. Previous owners were not too keen on coolant maintenance. Seven years after cleaning with random orbit sander and no rust. Our 2007 VF 2 has stainless steel covers, very nice.

    Haas does some things that are excellent and a few things that just don't make sense.

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    Idunno, so I'll ask again: Just exactly what material do you expect the waycovers be?

    My '07 VF4 is the same as the '16 VF4 and the same as the '18 VF2 and the same as the '07 Mori and the same as the '10 NL2000 ....
    Sure as shiit not stainless, nor does any of them have a lick of rust.

    Should it not be on the shoulders of the coolant manufacturer for material compatibility?
    Granted, Haas had some questionable material selections in the past ( like water dissolvable gaskets or felt cover wipers that permanently capture chips ), but using a metal material
    for a machine component that is primary cutting all sorts of metal materials in it's lifetime ....

    ( still can't get over that bitchin' about the disposal of the blue goo by a machine shop though .... )

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    "My '07 VF4 is the same as the '16 VF4 and the same as the '18 VF2 and the same as the '07 Mori and the same as the '10 NL2000 ....
    Sure as shiit not stainless, nor does any of them have a lick of rust."

    Guarenteed none of those had galvanic marterial in the cutting area , galvanizing works on a molecular level to prevent corrosion, it robs Peter to pay Paul, so the Haas glavanized way covers will not rust but eventually everything else in there will, including your pair of $900 Kurt vises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by landm1 View Post

    galvanizing works on a molecular level to prevent corrosion, it robs Peter to pay Paul, so the Haas glavanized way covers will not rust but eventually everything else in there will, including your pair of $900 Kurt vises.
    So, how long for THAT magic to take place?
    'Cos from where I stand, the '06, the '16 and the '18 machine has a cast iron table with the Kurt vises proudly mounted on'em.
    So far, ain't a lick of rust on them using Chemetall coolant.
    Actually used Blasocut 2000 for 5 or so years in the older one, still, no problem.

    Again, what kind of metal are you proposing for the waycovers?

    ( OK, on-edit: Just realized you are talking about brand spankin' new, as in within the last few or so months... maybe they are using galvanized in those, but cannot fathom how?
    Most galvanized I've seen was rather rough surface, and the plastic or even brass wipers would not have lasted more than a few months at best ... )

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Again, what kind of metal are you proposing for the waycovers?
    Palladium.

    For my first attempt at DIY way covers I used uranium-235, but discovered that when I moved the axis to one limit or the other the covers went critical.

    I was microseconds away from a brown-pants event as I jogged the table back to center...

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    Is it truly 'galvanized' or some sort of plating. Galvy has that mottled appearance I don't see in the images.

    There was a product that I cannot recall the name of with that dull gray appearance

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    [QUOTE=landm1;3674258

    Guarenteed none of those had galvanic marterial in the cutting area , galvanizing works on a molecular level to prevent corrosion, it robs Peter to pay Paul, so the Haas glavanized way covers will not rust but eventually everything else in there will, including your pair of $900 Kurt vises.[/QUOTE]


    That is why they use zinc for anodes on boats To make them rust harder

    Peter

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    This is as new machine, on the floor for one week. It is not a question of is it galvanized or not, the X and Y axis way covers are galvanized sheet metal[/B] according to Haas. I worked with that material decades ago, if you look very closely at the pictures above you can see the light play on it, typical of galvanized sheet metal.
    So there is a 50/50 chance your current coolant will not work on these machines?
    I asked "what the difference was between my 2013 VF2 and the 2020 VF2 before we bought the machine, they forgot to mention they hung galvanized sheet metal all over the machining area, yea, not happy!

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    My 2020 vf4 has the galvanized covers. If coolant sits on them, that spot turns black. If a chip sits on it, it turns black in the shape of the chip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Well, the biggest bitch about the green goo is the removal of it, so if that wasn't done by the install guy, then it is on him.
    For disposal tho, into the waste oil with it.

    As for the way covers, what do you think they should use?
    Stainless, even my made in Taiwan 1989 Supermax lathe has austenitic stainless way covers

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    The material is galvanneal.

    Dynatech makes Haas Ways covers or a portion of them at least.

    Started to show up in machine built after 0ct 2019. Mine has it and pita to keep clean.


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