General questions on purchasing an HRT210/160

crane550 · Mar 18, 2020

Hello,

I have a 2014 Haas VF4-SS and have been wanting to make the plunge to an indexer. I do some some questions, however and was hoping someone could give me some pointers. Currently my goal is just indexing, but 3D work in the future might be a benefit, but indexing for now is OK.

First question: How aggressive of a tool can I use on an HRT160 and/or HRT210? The largest tool I use is a 1.25" Shear Hog, which I face with and do some bulk material removal. Say .150" DOC, 165 IPM at 80% WOC in 6061. Spindle load gets to a max of about 40% not including the initial spike. I see torque ratings for the HRT160 and 210 but unsure how this translates to the rated torque of these units. Is there a noticeable difference between the 160 and 210, and aside from physical size should that affect my buying decision?

Next I'm wondering about the interface. Haas will sell me a servo drive for $2700, as my machine doesn't have a drive for the 4th axis. I can also get a unit with a standalone box and communicate with RS232. Are there fundamental capability differences between these two setups? It seems that the built in drive is more simple but more expensive, and the serial interface might have limited capabilities, have more room for error, but is also cheaper.

Is there a fundamental difference to how I would set up my workflow between the two?

Insight on this would be helpful.

Regards,
Alex

coyoinu · Mar 18, 2020

I think you'd be surprised how much you can honk on a Haas rotary. Last week we tested how big of a cut we can get away with on a HA5C. 1/2" BEM, .3 DOC, 100% WOC 40 IPM 5K RPM in 6061. It was about 40% spindle load, the floor under our feet was shaking, and the cut looked great.

As far as the interface goes, with the integral 4th drive you can run simultaneous motion. If you use the standalone box you can only index.

Tryhard · Mar 18, 2020

crane550 said:
Hello,

I have a 2014 Haas VF4-SS and have been wanting to make the plunge to an indexer. I do some some questions, however and was hoping someone could give me some pointers. Currently my goal is just indexing, but 3D work in the future might be a benefit, but indexing for now is OK.

First question: How aggressive of a tool can I use on an HRT160 and/or HRT210? The largest tool I use is a 1.25" Shear Hog, which I face with and do some bulk material removal. Say .150" DOC, 165 IPM at 80% WOC in 6061. Spindle load gets to a max of about 40% not including the initial spike. I see torque ratings for the HRT160 and 210 but unsure how this translates to the rated torque of these units. Is there a noticeable difference between the 160 and 210, and aside from physical size should that affect my buying decision?

Next I'm wondering about the interface. Haas will sell me a servo drive for $2700, as my machine doesn't have a drive for the 4th axis. I can also get a unit with a standalone box and communicate with RS232. Are there fundamental capability differences between these two setups? It seems that the built in drive is more simple but more expensive, and the serial interface might have limited capabilities, have more room for error, but is also cheaper.

Is there a fundamental difference to how I would set up my workflow between the two?

Insight on this would be helpful.

Regards,
Alex

I recall this being discussed recently in THIS THREAD HERE.
Hope it helps.

Delw · Mar 18, 2020

I'd get the drive and everything if you have a haas now, if you want to run it on another machine you'll need a box.
both are strong like said above. id take a 210 before the 160 do to its bigger if you need it. most of my stuff is collet work I could do with a smaller collet one but I do use the 210 for fixtures and stuff.

The box is a pain in the ass cables in the way box in the way. I never used my box on the haas but have on the non haas machines. works no just NO FUll 4th unless its on the hass
lots easier to program on the hass also, no special codes except "A xxx" not to mention your not going to crash it cause you forgot a pause code, or wait code in the non hass machine

SIM · Mar 19, 2020

I bought my 160 with the box even though my machine was wired for the 4th axis. I have had for 15 years and have yet to hook it up. I did however use it for my Haas bar feeder for a bit.

From what I recall you can use the box for full 4th axis work...sort of.

You write your program on the mills control and write your program for the box.

For simple index moves you program with an M switch that tells box to do the next index. Then mill does its thing, another M code for next index.
Trickier work can be done I was told by feeding by time and tweaking to make the axis coincide.
Sounded like a pain in the arse and not very precise.

Now the 4th on the machine is the cats meow.
Plug it in, change your setting to activate and you just program an A10. for 10 deg move. Want to engrave on a round, Type in what you want, lock the Y axis with a code and it will engrave around.

You can write your code in a flat plane and wrap it using the mapping feature. YOur feedrate is set by loading the parts diameter...

In short...programing with the Haas 4th is so simple compared to a standalone box.

If doing only index's...I'd still skip the box.

D.D.Machine · Mar 19, 2020

I run 210 on a vf4ss and push it hard,, Its all indexing work but the fixure is 36" long and 10" dia .. its been doing it for 5+ years and seems to be happy,,

Unless your doing small parts on a small radios I would go with the 210 over the 160 ,,, the gear in the 210 is "WAY" bigger than the small 160.

Being a 2014 model your dealing with it could be a sigma 1 or sigma 5 motor setup in your machine,,, Call Haas with your model # and have them verify what moter setup your machine uses before getting a 4th ,,, you want the 4th axis motor to match your machine motor and drives ...

dodgin · Mar 19, 2020

I had created this thread a while back wondering about a 5X vise, but it's pertinent here.

Anyone use a Kurt MaxLock HP420 5X Vise?

It's a HRT160 on a VF3, with a 5X vise holding 45 lbs of 17-4. We did most of the material removal with a 2" FM - .125" DOC, 30% radial.

Right now I'm working a project with the same vise on a HRT210. Although it's aluminum it weighs twice as much, and we're cooking through the material - same DOC, 40% radial - 7500 RPM, 250 IPM, with plenty of indexes.

Seems if the setup is right these things can be relatively stout.

CPM2014 · Mar 19, 2020

I too would go 210mm. I have both and there are many time that I have pushed past the brake on the 160. Drilling on the outer edge of swing will do it.

crane550 · Mar 30, 2020

Looking at a "SHRT-160H". Does anyone know what the S at the beginning and the H at the end designate? I'm hoping it means higher torque, but not sure. Can't find anything about this online.

Alex

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General questions on purchasing an HRT210/160

crane550

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coyoinu

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Tryhard

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Delw

Stainless

SIM

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dodgin

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CPM2014

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crane550

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