Haas 1998 HS-1RP Troubleshooting(repost)
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  1. #1
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    Default Haas 1998 HS-1RP Troubleshooting(repost)

    Summary: I'm trying to trouble shoot an AUX AXIS DISCON error displayed by the control, and some of the axis's are jammed.

    Here's the background on the machine if it helps: I recently purchased a Haas HS-1RP through a broker, meaning he knew very little about the machine and I wasn't able to talk to the previous owner. I got it at a good price, and was told it was running when it was disconnected, although judging by the good price I knew it would need some work. I'm seriously beginning to doubt that the machine was running due to the condition of the machine. After sequencing the 3 phase, and selecting the correct taps for the line voltage I powered on the machine. The first alarm I dealt with was a low pressure alarm. I ran air to the machine and when I opened the valve I clearly heard a leak. I climbed on top of the machine and found the leak, I grabbed the broken hose to measure the ID so I could turn a barb on my lathe. The hose basically shattered in my hands, so I used the old lines to fish through new ones. The machine was clearly outside exposed to the sun during operation as the colored buttons are seriously sun faded, and only the top of the hoses were cracking. The broken hoses on the top go in the area of the tool changer assembly. Also I found some Allen keys and I think I remember one of the cables being disconnected, which I reconnected. I powered the machine back on, and it was still leaking, which I narrowed down to a line coming off of a low pressure secondary regulator, so right now I just dialed the regulator all the way out. Back at the controller the low pressure alarm is now gone. The only error now is: AUX AXIS DISCON. I read up in the machine user/service manual, and it says on this machine the tool changer uses an auxiliary axis to control the tool changer. For this specific error it says to check the rs-232 connection, and the axes's. Thanks HAAS. So I looked in the control, and finally determined that the tool changer is controlled by an auxiliary board that is located on the door of the machine and is not labeled, but clearly has cables going to the cable port labeled tool changer. The board looks immaculate despite the griminess of the rest of the case. So far i found nothing that would be the source of the problem in the control. The next thing I can check will involving literally climbing into the machine and checking if there is anything disconnected.

    If anyone has any advice of where I should be looking feel free to comment. Thanks guys!

    Also once I get this machine into a working state, I plan on getting a 5th axis for it and using Fusion 360 to generate Gcode for it. I've modified a few posts before, but never to use 4 and or 5 axis simultaneous, so if anyone has input on that please comment below.

    Update: I checked all of the tool changer connections that i could easily get to, and they all seemed to be fine. In the control I disabled aux axis tc. Then i hit the startup button, and the z axis works perfectly, but both the y axis and a axis are jammed. so ill be taking off some covers to look and see what the problem is.

    I looked through the programs and there were only 20 or so hand written programs on the machine. the latest one written in 2012, so i'm guessing the machine has been sitting for at least 5 years, probably outside.

    Im going to look at the tool changer solenoids and see if i can fire them off manually, and also research the hydraulic counter balance more.

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    What would you like to know about the hydraulic counter balance ? Most of the HS1RPs I have worked on were much earlier machines that didn't use a servo driven tool changer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    What would you like to know about the hydraulic counter balance ? Most of the HS1RPs I have worked on were much earlier machines that didn't use a servo driven tool changer.
    Sorry I didn't see your repost, and thanks for responding. I was able to bypass the tool changer for now, and home the z axis, however Im getting an error, which reads out as something like servo error too large on the y and a axis. there is a possibility that they put the shipping bolts back in, Ill see if i can get to them but I highly doubt it. One possibility is that the hydraulic counterbalance is not functioning correctly, however I have basically no experience with that system, or how it works. I did find some documentation from haas, so ill be studying that.

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    I took off the rear panel, and attached to the column was the nitrogen tank fully charged, so its definitely not that. There were some crimped wires attached to the valve, so someone has been messing around inside this area for sure. I also took the opportunity to climb inside and I felt that the x axis does move for a small distance quite easily. The rails are covered in a thick grime, so I'll be needing to give those a good cleaning. I was able to reach the Y axis lead screw and it is jammed solid, perhaps the shipping bolt is in only the y axis, or the ball nut, or end bearing is rusted. I think my next step will be finding the shipping bolt location in the manual and checking that. After that Ill be checking out the ball nut to see if its seized, and I'll probably take the covers off of the A axis to see whats up with it.

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    2 things come to mind with servo error to large. 1 a mechanical bind in the axis. 2 a bad home switch. if the alarm is a grid offset to large ( I think that's what it says) then there is a parameter to adjust to correct that. if so let me know and I can walk you through it.

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    Its definitely mechanically bound, but i think it may be the lock bolts(shipping bolts). The service manual doesn't have a diagram of exactly where they are, so ill need to at least find that spot to rule that possibility out. In the service manual it only talks about one set of bolts that would lock the spindle from moving in the y axis(up and down). Normally I would have checked for shipping bolts first, but the condition of the machine in general made me think no care was given prior to shipping. Also the other axis's moved and in my experience if a machine has locking bolts they are on all of the axis's.

    update: I found that 96-9010 rev G is the latest version of the service manual, and it has a lot more pictures and shows where the lockbolts are, Ill have a look and see if they are installed now that I know where they are.

    Also this newer rev seems to have more info about troubleshooting the tool changer.
    Last edited by D Farms; 09-18-2019 at 03:40 AM.

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    I located the holes for the shipping bolts and sadly they were empty. This weekend im going to take the y axis way covers off and see if i can get a closer look at the ball nut, and bearings to see if they are seized.

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    I took the bottom way cover off the Y axis, and I also unbolted the servo to see if it spun free on its own. It did, and I noticed the bolts were only snug, and one was missing. someone was definitely in here before I was. The baffle had a metric buttonhead screw crossthreaded in.

    The ballscrew is jammed hard, most likely rust. Im thinking that this was one of problems with the machine that caused it to be put in the yard of the business it was at.

    I took a chunk of aluminum and bored out a hole the diameter of the outside of the ball screw. then I drilled 4 3/8 holes through the block and cut it in half on the bandsaw. I took the block and clamped it around the ball screw as tight as I could so it wouldnt slip. A buddy of mine has a massive pipe wrench which I used on the block to attempt to spin the ball screw. theres a good chance this will damage the nut, but I need to be able to turn the screw to get it out of the machine anyways. I pushed the wrench as hard as I could and it didnt budge. Then i loosened the wrench and hammered it, and it started moving a small ammount. Its in a pain in the ass spot so ill work on it some more tonight, but im happy im at least finding the source of the issue.

    I found parts on the Haas website for the complete ball screw, but I may be able to fix this one enough to make it work for a while as long as there is no serious rust damage.
    Last edited by D Farms; 09-22-2019 at 12:14 PM.

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    most likely it's a bad ballscrew, but dont rule out the thrust or support bearings. I have in 1 case a long time ago had a support bearing lock up a screw tight.

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    out of curiosity have you pulled up the handle on the lube pump and see if the system holds pressure? should hold 40 lbs for over 1 minute. if not you have a leak, and you're ball screws aren't getting any lube.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss710 View Post
    out of curiosity have you pulled up the handle on the lube pump and see if the system holds pressure? should hold 40 lbs for over 1 minute. if not you have a leak, and you're ball screws aren't getting any lube.
    I think the lube pump handle is currently jammed. Ill have have a look at that as well. Its like a little trail of breadcrumbs.

    Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

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    So I looked at the oil pump and the handle is jammed, and there were some missing screws on the motor pump housing, and i found another wire that was damaged and electrical taped over... there was a tablespoon of oil in the reservoir so thats definitely a problem.

    After looking at the oil pump situation I wrenched on the ball screw a bit more and was able to get it to move somewhat freely by hand. I turned the machine on, and the y axis now moves on its own, but the A axis is still jammed.

    Ill need to inspect the a axis next and see what the deal is there.

    Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk

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    well you are making headway. make sure the table drawbars are releasing or the A will never move. with the rust I see on the ballscrew, I'd be concerned with the A axis table and rust as well. the table is held still by 4 drawbars if I remember correctly. they need air to release.good luck! you are making progress!

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    Ahhhh it says something about clamping in the control, ill have a look at that. Much of the air system is leaking due to age and being exposed to the elements.

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    I disabled the 4th axis in the control and got the y and z axis to zero and the x axis now moves, although its having trouble homing, I think the rails and ball screw are all gunked up with grime, and solidified oil residue. also the billows were sort of stuck together with dried coolant, and they were popping as the axis moved across. which way is the x axis meant to home, left or right as you look at the control?

    On a different note, haas sells a rebuild kit for the oiler, but the manual priming piston is not moving, in a haas service video they did mention putting the machine in a certain mode to allow the piston to be moved.

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    definitely get the pump rebuild, and make sure you clean out the tank good. and check the felt filter in the suction foot. they get clogged easily.

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    The baffles on the control side of the column are warped and jamming up the x axis. I looked up the price on the haas parts website and they are $1900 per side, so ill try to save this one lol. Once i take it out though i can get the x axis to home and see what else works/ doesnt work.

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    Which way is supposed to home, Its moving to the right, but I see the limit switch is the other way. maybe the switch is jammed down and its trying to back off of it.

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    its supposed to move left with you facing the spindle. either the switch is stuck . or the switch being unplugged ( broken wire) will cause it to move slowly right. the switches plug in just above the oil pump in the rear.

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    That's just what I needed to know, thanks!

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