Haas - 2nd attempt
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Default Haas - 2nd attempt

    You probably dont recall my previous post about a HAAS vf I purchased for a steal on ebay...which turned out to be a fraudster trying to rob my money...

    Anyway, I got it back and purchased a small education/hobby style CNC mill called a Denford Novamill (you guys would most certainly call it a toy - and with some accuracy).

    I have enjoyed prototyping a few parts, but the limited x and y and 0.5HP spindle, legacy controller and very low Z height meant it was never going to scratch my itch for long.

    So I have been watching out for a likely machines over the last few months, and I spotted something which fit the bill the other day. I made good on my previous mistake and actually visited the workshop earlier today to view a HAAS TM1, 2009 with a tiny number of hours on it.

    I was more than happy with what I saw, the whole thing looks like new, and runs like new too.

    Best of all it runs on single phase and can be pretty easily be made small enough to fit through my garage door. So I slapped a deposit on it.

    The TM1 isn't the perfect machine, I would love a tool changer and an enclosure and a renishaw...but I's also would like to walk into a bar and have women throw themselves at me, but we dont get everything we want. The TM1 is a huge step up for me, and I'm looking forward to getting to grips with it!

    This is the item if anyone wants to give me their opinion

    HAAS TM1 CNC Milling Machine | eBay

    Have a great weekend everyone

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Redwood City, CA USA
    Posts
    4,942
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    175
    Likes (Received)
    882

    Default

    I learned to run a TM-1 at the local high school robotics shop. I have a Deckel FP2NC at home, which provides an interesting comparison. The TM-1 at the school has a 10-tool ATC, while the Deckel is manual tool change but with an automatic drawbar. The TM-1 is definitely not as rigid as the Deckel, which has box ways, but you certainly can get good work done on it. I like the 30 inches of X travel. The Haas tops out at 4000 RPM, while the Deckel gets to 6300, but as noisily as h*ll. The Haas control is pretty intuitive (which I'd expect for a 2007 vintage machine). The Deckel control is also pretty intuitive and was way ahead of its time in 1986.

    I'd take a TM-1 in a home shop any day, if it came along for the right money.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    425
    Likes (Received)
    86

    Default

    I run a 2002 TM-1 for prototyping college design projects and it definitely gets the job done. It is great for us as it is easy to teach to the students and the speed or lack thereof can be helpful to avoid crashes from new program or student mistakes. That said, there isn't a day I don't wish it had more the 4000 RPM and a full enclosure. Might have to try and slip the office manager a purchase order for a Hermle one of these days.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    625
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    453
    Likes (Received)
    211

    Default

    I would think hard on this. You want a tool changer my friend. Do you really want to make this step again and not have what you really want only to desire more in a few monthes? TM1 is not a bad machine for a home shop but there are many others that will fit in under your door with a little removel. Also there has been some talk that Hass is no longer able to provide one of the boards in the control on that Vantage machine. To upgrade it $10k-$13k or your left with a boat anchor. Anyways do you need the X30" travles?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Alberta canada
    Posts
    162
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    43

    Default

    I've really enjoyed my has tm-1 and tm-2
    They have there place.
    Cheaper to get into, lighter(no worries breaking my floor, easy to move) single phase power.
    They can teach and make money.

    But the lack of enclosure is a mixed blessing. Yes I can get in and out quick, change tools and fit some odd parts into it, but WHAT A MESS! I hate the mess. My tm-1 is mid project getting an enclosure made

    Tool changer. I got 1 with and 1 without. Depends on your job and your hurry. If it's cranking parts out in a run. It's a need. If it's 1 offs. Don't bother. Long tools get in the way and it's harder to load parts with a crane.

    Rpm can easly be changed to 6000
    Rapids can be doubled too.

    There no powerhouse. But they get all my work done.

    A quick note on the hours tho. If the control batteries go, the hours go back to zero. I'm willing to bet this is the case with this mill. I happened to mine.

    If you can. Have them make a test part. Interpolate some circles, see if it's smooth all around the cut. Does it chatter in one direction, but not the other.?
    Set up a dial and give the table a push/pull in the axis directions, is there slop in the ball screw?

    And one odd note, I though after 2007 the screen bezels where stainless, not painted?

    Any questions ask!
    Have fun and good luck

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    751
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    944
    Likes (Received)
    494

    Default

    A machine that late has the Coldfire II (2) wich they still support well. It's the control used for retrofit on the older machines too.
    I think it's the easiest control to use of all I've run. I don't use conversational though.... The TM's come with conversational IIRC, and some people like that.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    396
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    84
    Likes (Received)
    47

    Default

    I bought a TM-1 new in 2005 and it has been running in my shop since then cutting everything from wood to steel to plastic to titanium to alu, you name it. I have 3 phase power in the shop and a neighbour company who do sheet metal fabrication whipped up some splash guards for me. I added a filter set up to the coolant system too. I like the large table on the TM-1 which allows me to use subplates and a vise at the same time, or 2 vises together.

    Is the machine as rigid as a giant Deckel Maho? No. Does that bother me? No.

    I wish I could add a tool changer but they are impossible to find used. So some years back I bought a 2001 Haas Mini Mill, which I also love. I usually make the fixtures for the Mini Mill on the TM-1.

    As long as the TM-1 is in good shape, you will have a ball with the machine.

  8. Likes riabma77 liked this post
  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Default

    Thanks Folks - just in the process of sorting out the rigging, and the time off work to be there for pick up and here for drop off.

    Glad to read of positive experiences, and to those that noted the limitations of the machine - I know it's not perfect, but for the money I dropped I could maybe pick up a 97 heavily used VMC, which I would really struggle to get in my garage, would take up more floor space and would need 3 phase (which would be about £5k to install. Meaning I'd have best part of £20k ($25,000) in a 20 year old - maybe that is a better solution, but its not a better choice in my mind.

    I'm happy, and the deposit is down and I'm not the type to squelch on a deal anyhow.

    I'll keep the post updated as things progress.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    396
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    84
    Likes (Received)
    47

    Default

    Make sure to secure the spindle head before moving the machine, at best with the red metal fixture that would have come with it when it was delivered from Haas.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    971
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by B-Mathews View Post
    I would think hard on this. You want a tool changer my friend. Do you really want to make this step again and not have what you really want only to desire more in a few monthes? TM1 is not a bad machine for a home shop but there are many others that will fit in under your door with a little removel. Also there has been some talk that Hass is no longer able to provide one of the boards in the control on that Vantage machine. To upgrade it $10k-$13k or your left with a boat anchor. Anyways do you need the X30" travles?
    Please Tell me about the board that is no longer available. Would that be the processor board?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    poulsbo, wa, usa
    Posts
    699
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    286

    Default

    yes its the processor board on the coldfire I controls ,,, 2007 or 2008 was the change over time from the coldfire I to coldfire II controls ... "AT" this point haas is still selling coldfire II boards but who knows when that is going to stop.

    A year ago a control card for a pre 2007 machine was $1,200 and a simple swap to fix it your self. Today to fix the same problem it would be $12,000 and a full retrofit to fix it ,,, Bottom line is don`t buy a pre 2007 haas unless you want to scrap it if the control goes out ....... and YES they do go out.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    essex england
    Posts
    998
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1901
    Likes (Received)
    637

    Default

    Not my idea of a good mill especially for that money.
    If you into that type of mill a xyz is much better
    Ebay dont seem to care about con artists only people trying to give the fees a the slip.
    Was the haas you tried to buy listed as being in scotland but the photo blatantly shows the shop is in the usa even down to the flag on the wall.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    751
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    944
    Likes (Received)
    494

    Default

    My early 2007 super mini mill is coldfire II.
    Hope this helps.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    971
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    yes its the processor board on the coldfire I controls ,,, 2007 or 2008 was the change over time from the coldfire I to coldfire II controls ... "AT" this point haas is still selling coldfire II boards but who knows when that is going to stop.

    A year ago a control card for a pre 2007 machine was $1,200 and a simple swap to fix it your self. Today to fix the same problem it would be $12,000 and a full retrofit to fix it ,,, Bottom line is don`t buy a pre 2007 haas unless you want to scrap it if the control goes out ....... and YES they do go out.
    My processor board failed on my '06 TM2. They charged me $7K for the board but offered a $3.5K core charge. I don't remember the install charge. You want to know what pi$$ed me off most. The USB port that is on the coldfire board was disabled after install. I sure my ranting post is somewhere here in the archives. Why don't they offer a software patch with the upgrade?

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Default

    Thanks for more replies, though discussions about replacement boards isn't high on my list of concerns right now.

    Wanted to update as it arrived yesterday, was a struggle to get into the garage due to the height of the machine - don't believe the numbers on the net about the reductions you get from feet removal and regen removal... they aren't accurate, I barely scraped through on 30mm steel bar with everything off, and my door had 1980mm of clearance - I should have had about 170mm spare, but instead it was what could be called an interference fit

    The spindle was properly secured with the red bracket, looking to rent a toe jack and get it back on it's feet this weekend, maybe a pallet truck to move it round to its final resting place too. Electric spur is in from the main board, air line ready - just gotta shift my hobby mill out the way to its new home, get the haas settled in then get it level and powered up.

    Ref the enclosure, I plan to make one as time allows, but this is a marathon not a sprint, so I won't be rushing it - if I can't use flood coolant till it's sorted then so be it - I don't run steel, so fog buster will work in the short term.

    The machine being made in the US of A has already bitten me once due to the ye olde imperial fastners used... last time I had to dig that set of tools out I was building a kit car based on the running gear of a street car from the 1970s!

    Looking forward to getting to grips with the machine, and I'll be posting updates on here from time to time.

  17. Likes rklopp liked this post
  18. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Default

    Toe jack has been rented - its an 8 tonne big buggr, but more than capable of doing what I need to do.

    I need to remove the chip tray so I can get it under the casting on the front, and then it's a slowly slowly job of lifting it a few inches and putting a lump of wood under, then doing the same from the back till I've walked it up high enough to refit the feet.

    I'll get some photos up once it's all back together... but not till after I've switched it on and had a play!

  19. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Staten Island NewYork USA
    Posts
    3,698
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1073
    Likes (Received)
    1758

    Default

    You'll like the machine, even without a tool changer.

    But thought I once saw TM that was setup to do tool changes using a table stand that held a few tools.


    In any case, having had an open machine...coolant will make a huge mess...maybe consider air blast, still messy with chips flying..but won't be drippy oily chips and mist. Todays carbides and running dry isn't much of a problem provided your not double cutting chips, air blast takes care of that.






    As to Processor board worries...if you have and it goes...
    From my understanding Haas is taking the No Longer Available boards back for repair, repaired boards can be had, not cheap...but with core exchange its not that rE-dunK-U-Los- number I had heard it would be to upgrade.


    My thought, use Haas, enjoy Haas...if you outgrow, you'll get your money back and will have gotten a couple years use out of it for little cost.


    Enjoy and good luck with it!

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Default

    Thanks Sim,

    big day yesterday, which has given me a new found respect for Egyptians after I couldn't hire a pallet truck so had to do it all on steel bar. I'm a soft office monkey, not used to proper work

    Toe jack worked a treat, wired in, air in, up on its feet.

    I had a crisis of confidence as the z axis went up during the home/startup procedure, as I wasn't 100% clear if it would stop before the roof... it did

    Tons to learn, its a different league to my hobby style machine but really looking forward to what is ahead!

    mill.jpg

  21. Likes Ray Behner, Kevin Wilkins liked this post
  22. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    396
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    84
    Likes (Received)
    47

    Default

    Looking good! You're going to have a lot of fun with that machine... as long as you are not under pressure to outbid other shops with turbo fast, half million $ machines to make aircraft parts. ;-) I have had so much success with my TM-1.

    If you make a hinged plate to cover the opening below the table, your feet will stay much dryer, also make a light alu inner shield to hang inside the the table door to keep coolant from running under the door. I will try and make a few pics and post, these 2 things really make the flood coolant less of a flood.

  23. Likes Chris59, Dangle_kt liked this post
  24. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    87
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    27
    Likes (Received)
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wilkins View Post
    Looking good! You're going to have a lot of fun with that machine... as long as you are not under pressure to outbid other shops with turbo fast, half million $ machines to make aircraft parts. ;-) I have had so much success with my TM-1.

    If you make a hinged plate to cover the opening below the table, your feet will stay much dryer, also make a light alu inner shield to hang inside the the table door to keep coolant from running under the door. I will try and make a few pics and post, these 2 things really make the flood coolant less of a flood.
    Thanks Kevin, some photos would be really helpful. I'm not doing job shop work, just making some parts for motorcycles I race, and a handful of duplicates to sell to help pay for tyres and running my van. I wont get rich, but I learn a new skill, have fun and have a cool addition to the man cave.

    I plan on making an enclosure in the fullness of time, but for now as I'm only working alu I'll just machine dry with air until I can better contain the flood coolant with some small alterations like you have listed


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •